What kind of organic glue would be best for bowmaking down here in the wet tropical islands of Indonesia? I don't mind recommendations that require me to look for dried store-bought material, but if possible I'd also like to know what kind of fresh materials would be most suitable for rendering into glue that would hold under the heat and humidity.
(Incidentally, I've been keeping some fresh carp bladders from the last time my family cooked a few of these fishes, but I don't know if they're any good at all for glue-making. Any ideas?)
Bede
Bows in India with fish or hide glue sometimes had a layer of silver foil glued under the lacquer coating. I wonder if this prevented moisture getting to the glue. I have seen some vegetable glues that might be waterproof used in glueing leather to wooden scabbards.
In Indonesia, horn-only bows were popular. Could this have been because to the technical difficulties of using glues?
Stephen Selby
I think that if you could make the bow in a dry environment and then give it a coating of lacquer (i.e. the real. organic lacquer, not man-made), the bow would survive well.
Do you have information on traditional bows from Indonesia? I have seen some in museums with large cylindrical handles. I can't understand how they worked.
Hyarmendacil
Hmm. Interesting. I'll go and have a look at what kinds of lacquer I can find around here.
By "cylindrical handle," do you mean something like the one on this bow?
If so, I'm not sure either, but they look similar to the handles on the short bows used in rural archery competitions in West Java. Have a look at these two photo galleries--I bet you'll notice the similarities with other rural competitions in India and the SE Asian mainland:
I have seen some vegetable glues that might be waterproof used in glueing leather to wooden scabbards.
What kind of vegetable glue? Even if it's no good for building the bow's structural parts, I may still be able to use it for a waterproof coating.
In Indonesia, horn-only bows were popular. Could this have been because to the technical difficulties of using glues?
Quite possible, though on the other hand the horn-only bows are made of multiple pieces of horn glued onto each other and the glues on these splices certainly can't be any weaker than those used in ordinary horn-and-sinew composite bows. Additionally, the all-horn bows I know of (admittedly only a very small sample) are fairly light target bows, so maybe they only used the horn because they had no need for the extra strength provided by the sinew on the other side?
Adam Karpowicz
Solid horn for a bow is not a bad idea, because it is the least affected by moisture among the three materials in a composite. The glue is first to go in contact with water and humidity.
It seems the most resistant glue would be made of bladders taken from cold water fish (such as cod or hake I tried). These glues do not gel at all at room temperature, so requre somewhat different techniques in use. To be sure, the differences between glues is not great, so the usual bark/leather protection is essential on the back of bow. And a waterproof coating(s). I left a couple of bows overnight in heavy rain and nothing bad happened. A string made of natural materials would actually be more affected in such conditions.
I think a composite can be made and function in the tropics, provided it is rested unstrung in a drying box. Its power will be less in comparison with a bow in drier climates, but it will be still functional.
Adam
Bede
I the the glue was made from the roots of the Asphodel plant.
The horn bows I saw were made in five pieces and wedged and tenoned together so if the glue failed the bow would still work.
Stephen Selby
Hyarmendacil: yes, the picture in the link is the sort of bow. And WOW! You have photos opf traditional archery in Indonesia! Can you give us a short write-up on the traditions and rules, which groups do it and where, and what rules? I haven't found anything about Indonesia for ATARN.
Hyarmendacil
I'd certainly like to, but I only found out about those competitions only a few months ago--just too late to actually go and watch and take notes about them. I've been constantly pestering the local head of the national archery organization (which mostly deals with modern sport archery but also supports more traditional events) about it and I hope I'll get the news in time when the next competition comes up.
Alex S.
Hello friend!
I live in Okinawa, not as tropical as Indonesia, but its humid here year round. At the moment it is 80% RH in my house so maybe 90% outside. I have been using hide glue for the past couple of months with excellent results. No weak rubbery joints and the glue gets hard enough to chip so I do not think it is affected by the humidity. Sinew backing however, thats a different story....I have never shot a sinew backed bow, yet a horn bow in suitable climate. So I cannot compare, but my bows did not fall apart from the moisture, maybe just slower....
Do you know the RH % over there?
Hyarmendacil
Humidity? I guess it's not all that far from what you experience there--only hotter. So I guess I should give hide glues a try. ;)
Alex S.
Where exactly do you live in Indonesia? If you can tell me the place, I can find the temperature and humidity and then calculate the EMC levels.
Hyarmendacil
In Bandung. The one in West Java--the biggest city named Bandung you'd find in any Indonesian data. I'd certainly be interested in whatever results you come up with.
Alex S.
Ok well for todays weather report, I came up with 78 degrees fahrenheit and 69% humidity. This equals out to an EMC (equilibrium moisture content) level of 12.7. This, still quite high, is much better than over here as our current EMC is 15.2....... :shock: I would expect you would have better results with your glues/sinew as it seems to get hotter in your area.
Basically, for bows you want to be down in the 8-6% area for bows to have optimal performance. I think composite bows may go lower and gain more performance.but I am not 100% sure. If you find the performance of your bows dissatisfying then I suggest you create a hotbox. (basically a insulated box with light bulbs inside to generate heat and drive moisture out safely) Just for comparison, Korea's EMC on June 1 was 9.6, China was 6.3 and Mongolia was 9.3. These are just from the averages and so it may have been drier at one point of the day and more humid later. Still, I assume inside a house, any of these percentages would drop at least 2 percent.
amsci99
Hi Hyarmendacil,
I am quite interested in the short bows in the links provided, is there anywhere I can learn more about their construction. I believe that their limbs are made from water buffalo horns which I hear is a difficult medium to work with since one has to cut the limbs according to the shape and orientation of the horn. The horn bow from the first link has a beautifully done siyah. There's a bow with brown limbs which I suspect is not made from horn, rattan or bamboo perhaps.
Bede
I acquired a Javanese bow some years ago with a set of target arrows. It had bamboo limbs inserted into a wooden handle. I have seen horn bows in the Grayson collection.
Buffalo horn is relatively easy to work. It can be cut, scraped, filed and bent with heat. I have seen bows where the tips were cut from a separated piece of horn and mortised and tenoned together with the limb.
I am quite interested in the short bows in the links provided, is there anywhere I can learn more about their construction.
That'd have to wait until I get the chance to poke around the next traditional archery competition I can find....
(Or for somebody else who knows better than me.)
Hyarmendacil
Bede wrote:
I acquired a Javanese bow some years ago with a set of target arrows. It had bamboo limbs inserted into a wooden handle. I have seen horn bows in the Grayson collection.
A fully traditional bow, or a semi-traditional takedown?
Bede
While I admit the bow I acquired was in the traditional form, I doubt that it was made for traditional shooting. Like several modern tourist bows one limb could be removed like a takedown.
Hyarmendacil
That's still interesting. Have you taken any pictures of it, BTW?
Bede
I might have some somewhere. I gave it as a present to someone many years ago.
