Turkish Mounted Archers

Also, before the show (1st of June) between the 17th and 18th of May 2008 Dr. Murat ?zveri, G?kmen Altınkulp and Engin Polat went to Sivas to converse on the subject of mounted archery. You can watch Murat's observations about this trip here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7384&hl=en

Great photos Temren, some very lively horses!!

Wonderful!
Happy to see the revival of this beautiful turkish art!

Congratulations to you all.
It is wonderful to see this art coming back to life. It would be very valuable to document the riding techniques of the Sivas cirit players so that one part of Turkish horsemanship becomes better known in the rest of the world.
Has anyone made a film or documentary about them? I remember seeing some dramatised scenes in the Turkish movie, Kan.

Thanks All,

I have created another set on flickr just for Cirit: http://www.flickr.com/photos/12223481@N ... 446027831/
These pictures are by Fuat ?zveri.

I also found this link which gives a little insight into Cirit:
http://www.steppenreiter.de/cirit.htm

I havent seen Kan, Bede. I will keep an eye out for documentaries about Cirit, though. I remember watching very short ones.

Adnan...

Wow shock: , nice costumes (for horse and rider) :D :

I hope I am not boring you, here is the link to the video:
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/2812715/8167696

Good outfits, beautiful horseflesh. -j-

Nice photos, very interesting. Only negative thing I would say is how the mouths on some of those horses are being hauled on.

Hi,

I dont ride myself, can you tell me what "mouths being hauled on" means, so I can ask the guys whether thats necessary or not. To my limited knowledge cirit horses are very difficult to control and their riders may treat them a little harsher than usual.

Adnan...

By hauled on I mean the rider is hanging off the horses mouth in quite an uncomfortable way for the horse to control/slow them, instead of using their body first to slow them down. This can be due to either lack of skill or lack of training. Not necessarily the riders fault as it may be a training issue or the history of the horse (in fact a number of things) but maybe it would be nicer on the horse if they used hackamore, bitless bridle or a kinder bit in these kind of circumstances.

These two pictures are examples of what I mean, you can see it in the way the horse is holding their mouths wide open.

[external image] [external image]

Don't get me wrong, I admire them for what they are doing and would love to be at that stage with my mare I just found the mouths in the pictures to be rather sad and distracting.

Ok, I'll pass it on.

However from what I have been told, cirit horses are primarily charge horses. Release the reins and they begin a full gallop, thats how they are trained. To stop them is the real issue, in fact apparently you cant stop them unless you do left-right jerks while pulling backwards.

That was fantastic Temren! Real riding, fast action. Turkish archers are back no doubt.

Adam

Hello gentlemen,

Although it is quite early to talk about an established Turkish mounted archery today, the photographs and video Adnan has provided clearly show that we succeeded to revive the horseback archery, at least to some extent.

It was my idea to "convert" cirit players to mounted archers and 1 1/2 year ago we started to have contacts with Sivasi cirit players. This is because it was hard to establish a system for learning and teaching riding in Istanbul in terms of financial opportunites and the time people could spend. However, there was a mounted martial art that still survives in Anatolia and the culture of horse riding has already had its own frame.

Cirit has been a game which was played at weddings in countryside and was well spread and poplular in many cities of Anatolia. Its recession as a result of modernised life and high migration rate to cosmopolitan cities has been stopped by the annual cirit organisations of Kagithane Municipality. New cirit clubs begun to be founded and it has become popular again.

Let me explain you why the character of horses or their relationship to their riders look different. Cirit is still played with its authentic and archaic rules except some "smoothening" with some restrictions (shooting distance min. 5 m, for example). A version of the game, kara cirit, is also played with none of these restrictions. The players try to hit their opponents with wrist-thick short spears (cirit, pronunced as "jereed"). The player simply runs away in full gallop after he threw his spear and is chased by the one of the opponents. The opponent can be shot or interrupted. This interruption can end up either with a hit (min. 5 m) or with a mercyful refrain. Refrain from hit scores less but is mostly preferred as an expression of fairplay and gentleness.

Although the tips of the cirits are covered with rubber blunts the heavy stick is very dangerous. Since the players wear NO protection at all, injuries and even death may occur. It's the same for the horses. Even watching a good cirit match makes one feel excited and have great respect for such a courage and madness.

Interestingly, good cirit horses feel what their riders think and feel and they join the game in heart and soul. As sensible animals the horses are sometimes scared too and try to dominate over their riders, do not obey during game. The horses have no protection neither and sometimes they're hit too. It's a war game and there is no place for "civilised" men and sissy pets in this game. The horses get used in chasing (or running away from) the opponent at full gallop and therefore it's very difficult to control them with gentle attitudes. So, it's different then the moderate horseback shooting on horses in canter-pace. When I was in Sivas with two friends of mine from Istanbul, my friends tried to ride these horses and they were surprised by the agitation of these animals.

We know that we'll need canter-walking horses to compete in disciplines like Kassai's but our first attempt will be reviving the qabak game of our ancetors which requires riding very fast and shooting one arrow to a target at the top of a pole. This is a decision we took with Sivasi friends who find it not feasable to train their horses to slow down or having new horses to train for a slow-pace canter for confortable nocking and reshooting in the saddle. First of all, they are cirit players.

I hope that we'll be a part of the international horseback archery community soon. It won't take too much time.

Best regards to all.

Murat

It's fascinating that we have the chance to relive this old art. Thank you for sharing.

Jos

Thanks for the information, Murat. My initial reply mentioned the 'lively' horses and just one look at them showed they were something special. I was also impressed by the pace - fast and furious! Brilliant!!
I would imagine Qabak is very difficult and disorientating, aiming upwards while travelling at speed. How tall is the pole?

I imagine qabak as shooting at popinjay from a full speed horse. It might be dangerous for spectators too.

I don't know if blunts are used but they would eliminate some danger to spectators.

Orda Khan,

In most scripts and articles the length of the pole has been given as "a mast", "three mast-long", "a pole reaching the sky" or "minimum 20 metres". The dimensions of the field is different too. There is a historical report about the discussion of Istanbuli and Egyptian (an Ottoman province at that time) mounted archers about that issue. Anyway, the play ground was about 276-350 m. Since cirit is played on a 140-160 m field, it's absolutely certain that the archers shot at full gallop and needed that space to control his horse after the shot.

We do not know whether blunts and/or flu flu's were used. But probably the arrow flight was slowed down by using the so-called "ibrish" arrows, the Turkish type flu flu, with a single full length feather wrapped around the rear of the shaft. However, in the miniatures that can not be recognised.

I doubt if low-weight bows were shot, because kabak game was a demonstration of skill first of all, and drawing/shooting heavy bows was a part of this concept. It means, the arrows would have been dangerous for the spectators too. Of course, one of the goals of such a long playground may be the safety of spectators.

Murat,
There are some Safavid paintings of qabaq (kabak) shooting. Penetrating the target seems to have been the purpose. Using abrish arrows would be one way to protect spectators. The other would be to have the spectators only on one side of the course.

I think the arrows might have been quite heavy, which would also limit their flight, but allow them to strike a metal target with force. However, with the original gourd as the target, light arrows as you have suggested would be a good idea. Turkish painters show the arrows that missed sticking vertically in the ground.

Taybugha gives a clear description of gourd shooting and there is no doubt that it was done at full gallop as you indicate.

Hi All,

I had a talk with Hilmi Aric. He wanted me to post the below explanation regarding the treatment of their horses:

Cirit horses perform rapid and rough manouvers. In order to stop or to achieve a controllable speeds, the riders need to haul on the mouths of their horses. Even while driving the horse forward, this method is used to give the horse a sense of balance. Horses run by constantly rushing forward, using the pushing force of their hind legs. The rider in the meantime, keeps the reins under constant pressure, a sort of contra-force against the hind legs. After a while, this pressure is taken into account by the horse when it assumes its own centre of gravity. Releasing this pressure on a slight slope would cause the horse to trip and fall. This also presents the greatest risk while performing mounted archery on a cirit horse, since the reins are released while shooting.

Hope this helps,

Adnan...