Bow from Samarkand
I would like for everyone to see this bow. It was dispalyed at the main History museum in Samarkand. This is the first bow that I know of which has good Central Asian provenience published here on ATARN.
I went one day to the museum and found this bow in a case accompanied by four arrow shafts. I wanted to examine it but the curator was not present so an appointment was made for the next day. I hired a technical translator to meet us there so nothing would be missed. The curator was in her office and she pulled the provenience information on the bow and told me the short story.
She called it a Kaman; it had been brought to the museum in 1930 by a man named Zaripov. It had been brought from Hazorasp in Khorezm, now a province of Uzbekistan. The arrows were collected at the same time in the countryside and are not associated with the bow.
She indicated that there were more bows in the basement and possibly some thumb rings and/or other materials.
Then we went up and the bow was taken out of the case and I blueprinted it and made some close up pics while my friend stood over the scene and continued to take pictures. We did this on the carpeted floor of one of the museums main rooms while being watched by the curator, director of publicity, the custodian of the display, my translator, and my traveling companion.
S
I went one day to the museum and found this bow in a case accompanied by four arrow shafts. I wanted to examine it but the curator was not present so an appointment was made for the next day. I hired a technical translator to meet us there so nothing would be missed. The curator was in her office and she pulled the provenience information on the bow and told me the short story.
She called it a Kaman; it had been brought to the museum in 1930 by a man named Zaripov. It had been brought from Hazorasp in Khorezm, now a province of Uzbekistan. The arrows were collected at the same time in the countryside and are not associated with the bow.
She indicated that there were more bows in the basement and possibly some thumb rings and/or other materials.
Then we went up and the bow was taken out of the case and I blueprinted it and made some close up pics while my friend stood over the scene and continued to take pictures. We did this on the carpeted floor of one of the museums main rooms while being watched by the curator, director of publicity, the custodian of the display, my translator, and my traveling companion.
S
The bow laid out for a pic of the bend. The scaled out overall length was later determined to be 54" along the belly. At midlimb the back was nearly flat and the belly radiused, 1/2" X 2" exactly. I took very careful measurements.
This bow of Hazorasp is covered completely in sinew, almost the entire surface.
Limb back. Neat but not perfect.
So what do they know about the bow (age, most importantly)?
Robno; The curator told me "The bow is made of wood. On the top it was covered with cloth..." They also had it strung backwards with an arrow in place. The so-called caretaker tried to draw the bow backwards as she took it from the case. So you can see that they do not know anything about bows. But after a discussion here we will probably decide more.
I will post the bow's plan before long.
It had once been painted yellow and black. It hung on a wall while the wall was painted around it; once blue and once barn red.
Sinew on the extreme tip is spiraled. There is a slip of horn inserted into the tip, just visible.
I will post the bow's plan before long.
It had once been painted yellow and black. It hung on a wall while the wall was painted around it; once blue and once barn red.
Sinew on the extreme tip is spiraled. There is a slip of horn inserted into the tip, just visible.
My guess: 18th century and not earlier.
Stephen; How do you base your opinion?
Last pic. There developed a lively discussion in the beckground which I ignored as I examined the bow. By the time I had finished, the museum folks were most irate with eachother, blaming eachother in Russian.
The bow was returned to the case while the drama continued. We left the scene as my opportunity to examine the other materials evaporated. My translator was friends with the staff and would not offer an explanation. Our itinerary required us to leave the next morning.
So a treasure trove of material still remains for some other atarnite to investigate.
I will post the plan soon. Hope you enjoyed. jack
The bow was returned to the case while the drama continued. We left the scene as my opportunity to examine the other materials evaporated. My translator was friends with the staff and would not offer an explanation. Our itinerary required us to leave the next morning.
So a treasure trove of material still remains for some other atarnite to investigate.
I will post the plan soon. Hope you enjoyed. jack
Please copy this for your personal use. Others please credit me. Enjoy.
Thank you for this. For my eyes this look as a well balanced bow.
If I'm not very wrong the limbs are set in front at the handle splice. And the bending limb is almost straight, and about 14" long. At brace the limbs has some early draw weight but to get full weight, how long can the full draw length be? 30-32"?
If I'm not very wrong the limbs are set in front at the handle splice. And the bending limb is almost straight, and about 14" long. At brace the limbs has some early draw weight but to get full weight, how long can the full draw length be? 30-32"?
Dear Jack,
That was amazing. This bow looks like Crimean Tartar style. But I'm not sure because of siyahs are shorter and back looks like a wider.
http://anthromuseum.missouri.edu/grayso ... arbow.shtm (courtesy: Dr. Grayson)
I'm not a bow expert. And we have only two bowmaker who are Mr. S. Cem Donmez and Y. Metin Aksoy in here. They are already members of ATARN and the best critical will come from them.
On the other hand I like your examination lab :) Thank you for your effort to share it!
That was amazing. This bow looks like Crimean Tartar style. But I'm not sure because of siyahs are shorter and back looks like a wider.
http://anthromuseum.missouri.edu/grayso ... arbow.shtm (courtesy: Dr. Grayson)
I'm not a bow expert. And we have only two bowmaker who are Mr. S. Cem Donmez and Y. Metin Aksoy in here. They are already members of ATARN and the best critical will come from them.
On the other hand I like your examination lab :) Thank you for your effort to share it!
A very nice looking bow. It is such a pity that some curators do not know about their pieces. I quite like the low angle between the siyah and the rest of the limb. I may try this for my next bow. Thanks for the dimensions.
Hi everybody
in my opinion bash(tip) lims and grip are from ıran
in my opinion bash(tip) lims and grip are from ıran
but kuram (form) is Tartar
I think that ıts hybrid. İran and Tartar features are together on this bow. I m very glad to see it. Its a miracle for me.Thanks Jack.
Thanks for your swift critical!
"arsilan"s name is Dr. Aksoy and he is the one of our bowmakers.
arsilan: Where did you take this "persian" (Iranian) bow's picture? In Turkey?
"arsilan"s name is Dr. Aksoy and he is the one of our bowmakers.
arsilan: Where did you take this "persian" (Iranian) bow's picture? In Turkey?
All ordinary Asian composite bows made from sinew, wood, horn and glue you know. But differences have shown in its technique & forms and have shaped with interactions between trends and nations.
Belowed picture taken from Istanbul Topkapi Palace Museum, Arms & Armour section.
Belowed picture taken from Istanbul Topkapi Palace Museum, Arms & Armour section.
Jack, very interesting story. I wonder what was the problem with them...we'll never know...
I took the pictures of Iran bow from a tomb. This tomb is in a village near Zile Tokat Turkey. Local people isnt know what is it this material. They belive that bow belonges a local hero's costa bones. It was funny. But now they learned from me. My friend Hilmi is studying about this bows. Hilmi is historian. And he has some thesis about bow and how its been in this tomb. He said that Zile is in border of İran and Turkey during 16. century.
If you do a search on Khwarezm, (or maybe more correctly Khorezm) the modern state where this bow was found, you will see that it has a long history as an important country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwarezm
So maybe this bow is a typical bow of Khorezm. But since there is just one now documented, how could we say?
My impressions about the bow, first is that it is very strong. Secondly the bow is bent at the grip in the manner of Tatar bows. Next, the grip is very short and the limbs go abruptly to the full dimension. The tips do indeed appear like Iranian, and short.
This bow may have been decorated at one time, there is little of value to be seen in museums in Central Asia which is not highly decorated. Now there remains only the smallest traces of ancient yellow and black paint, maybe background colors.
There are much better preserved bows in museums from the 14th C onward. I also wonder about the age. -j-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwarezm
So maybe this bow is a typical bow of Khorezm. But since there is just one now documented, how could we say?
My impressions about the bow, first is that it is very strong. Secondly the bow is bent at the grip in the manner of Tatar bows. Next, the grip is very short and the limbs go abruptly to the full dimension. The tips do indeed appear like Iranian, and short.
This bow may have been decorated at one time, there is little of value to be seen in museums in Central Asia which is not highly decorated. Now there remains only the smallest traces of ancient yellow and black paint, maybe background colors.
There are much better preserved bows in museums from the 14th C onward. I also wonder about the age. -j-
This is a beaytiful bow,couldn't help but be reminded of a few things,like the word kaman,it is still the general word used for bows in India,not to mention the sack of Delhi by Temur when he took all the craftsmen and artisans as slaves back to Samarkand.Iwas surprised that this bow did not have more Indian influences if it was made in Samarkand?guess we'll never know.
It's a difficult call. But I have got to see bows from 18, 17, 16... 800BC. Even in the most favourable conditions, you start to see a degeneration of the materials back before the start of the 18th Century. If they are too dry, they degenerate. If they're too damp the degenerate. Use and human handling leave a layer of dirt that gives them a certain 'patina', and when handling stops and storage/display starts, you can see that patina change. Because the tips of bows are heavily handled during stringing, they are a good place to start looking at these changes. Jack's photos are quite clear.Stephen Selby wrote:
My guess: 18th century and not earlier.
The grip looks to me like the typical Persian (Iranian) in size and shape with the limbs much wider in proportion. The bow is indeed a little more reflexed at the grip than many other such bows, but still within normal. The Tatar bows have very distinct reflex in the grip itself, much greater than in the arms (sal sections) and the grips are basically round like in the Korean bows.
I would rather see the kasan (ridged) sections to be a little more "Tatar". They seem to be round with no distinct bend at the kasan eye (the transition betw. the sal and kasan) - more like the Tatar style. I would expect such kasan to be less flexible in use.
But of course the tips are typically Persian or Mughal.
Adam
I would rather see the kasan (ridged) sections to be a little more "Tatar". They seem to be round with no distinct bend at the kasan eye (the transition betw. the sal and kasan) - more like the Tatar style. I would expect such kasan to be less flexible in use.
But of course the tips are typically Persian or Mughal.
Adam
I have looked at this discussion from my computer at home, 2 in the library and one in the international student center. THERE ARE NO PICTURES!
How can I see the pictures?
How can I see the pictures?
Become a member of the forum
Well I guess signing in is what did it.
Shaybaq
Shaybaq