'Puta' Bow (Linguistic Discussion)

Sorry khencoza :oops:
Cem

Speakers of most Romantic languages (French, Spanish, and other Latin-based tongues) would understand "puta" as implying a woman of loose morals, in fact. But I don't see what it has to do with the Turkish word for an archery target....

For an interesting explanation of the word putha (and the word butt as well) go to the page 22, footnote 174 of the English translation of the Hammer-Purgstall's work ?Uber Bogen und Pfeil?;

http://www.tuba-archery.com/article/On- ... lation.pdf

I can't comment on the Turkic languages; but respectable works on Indo-Aryan etymolgy reconstructed a common root for Eng. butt, batter, buck, (an English four-letter word which rhymes with the preceding), Fr. bouc, Lat. abattare, Latin bactiare,

S

Puta is a syllable of a more longer word that is very insulting to the Phillipine mothers. Puta is added with "ng" and "ina". This forms a word "Putangina". Ina means "Mother" or "Mama" as Puta (ng) means "curse you" (the person you are telling it to). So adding it all up together, you form "Putangina" which means "curse you and your mother who concieved you". Or as Americans say it "Curse you Son of a Bitch" yet in this case, "bitch" is a more bold word which means "female dog" which is a more bold understanding to the mother or the son the "word" is being told to.
Which means saying a bad word in "the Christian Language" (e.g. Roman Catholics) or in the Abrahamic Religions is going against the 3rd commandment of God: (Exodus - Holy Bible) "You shall not take my name in vein" (God speaking). Because as in the New Testaments says: "What you do unto the least of my brothers you do unto Me" which explains: You stole money from your mother you stole money from God and the one grieving because of your sin is your mother as to God is grieving because of you. (the person whom you commited a sin to).
Right?

Please don't say bad words to someone; They'll kick your ass!

may i ask what international consuetude practice a meeting, so many taboo food and drink/etiquette/clothes/religion

khencoza98 wrote:

Please don't say bad words to someone

But puta isn't a curse-word at all in the context of Turkish archery, and I don't see why we shouldn't continue using the word in this particular context--especially because "puta" does refer to a fairly specific form of traditional target archery and therefore the use of the word can contribute a great deal towards the terminological clarity that we should strive for.

None of this would offend Buddha; nor does it offend me. Butt the derivation of language is of interest. In Texas, puta is worse than a woman of low reputation.

But in Turkish, no harm is done. -j-

Sorry for participating so late in the discussion.

The origin and etimology of "puta" have been discussed in Turkish archery literature too. In the Chronicles of Evliya Chelebi, the folkloric story about the origin is given. According to this rumor, just after the conquest of Constantinople the iconas in the Church of Hagia Sofia were brought to the brandnew okmeydani (archery field) by Janissaries due to an order of Mehmed the Conquorer. These figures were put as target butts and were shot. However, all the serious researchers, including Dr. ?nsal Y?cel, believe that it does not make any sense, because especially Mehmed II was known with his unbelievably high tolerance to other religions. Whether or not this tolerance was directly related to the new political identity and position of Ottoman Empire and emperor, as the new Sultan-i R?m? (Sultan of Rome), is another question.

Anyway, there are other arguments for the correct etimological roots of "puta". The word "puta" as archery target was in use before the conquest of Istanbul. It might have been originated from "bute" which means "stump" in Chaghatay dialect of Turkish, or from "pot" that refers to terra-cotta cups (in Persian). The term "pottery" has links to this word too and so have some sayings in modern Turkish, like "pot kırmak", meaning "breaking a cup" (means screwing up things by saying a wrong word in a wrong time or to a wrong person).

These two possible origins make sense since both a stump (or a piece of log) and pots are "natural" archery targets and can be and have been used as targets. Log targets are on exhibition in the Military Museum in Istanbul.

Dear Murat, I?ve been wondering about the actual meaning of the word puta in the context of target archery. So is the case that puta can be used to describe anything connected to target practice in archery?

In the Symposium 2002 issue of The Society of Archer-Antiquaries there is an article on Turkish targets by Edward McEwen. The author gives us a few clues related to the word puta in the context of target shooting, he writes that according to the translation of ?nsal Y?cel?s writings puta is ?an earthen vessel used as a target?.
We know that the traditional Turkish ?butt? used for target shooting was a hanging pear-shaped leather target or some kind of stationary butt like seen on the 17th cent. painting showing sitting archers shotting at ok meydani.

McEwen speculates that the pear shape of the leather suspended type of target may come from the shape of the earthen vessel stationary target but I recall I was told recently that the shape of the Turkish leather target is traditionally a representation of a rider on a horse, could someone confirm if it is true?
A 16th cent. French ambassador at Istanbul named Busbequius describes Turkish target archery practice and earthen targets associated with it. He suggests that this kind of butt was borrowed by Turks from Greeks.
Here you will find the passage with the quote from Busbequius letters;
http://www.archerylibrary.com/books/boo ... r12_2.html

The case of the Evliya ?elebi?s (Evliya Effendi?s) 17th cent. writings is interesting. There are two quotations, also online of the different though very similar translations of an Effendi?s writings of the supposed case when the Mehmed II ordered to use the idols from Hagia Sophia as the archery targets at ok meydani;
The first passage;
http://www.archerylibrary.com/books/boo ... er2_7.html
comes from Hansard?s ?Book of Archery?, this actual passage is quoted in the McEwen?s article though McEwen tracing the author of the quotation mistaken the footnote giving the author of the passage with the next footnote thus he couldn?t trace the correct author (Evliya Effendi).
The second passage;
http://www.tuba-archery.com/article/On- ... lation.pdf
(page 22) comes from Hammer-Purgstall's ?Uber Bogen und Pfeil?.
Both McEwen and Hammer-Purgstall point out that the given names of the idols to be shot at resemble the names of the various Turkish arrows and this would give us a folkloric tale about the origin of the names of the arrows although in the translation from the ?Book of Archery? instead of the word puta we have putch. McEwen writes that ?in dictionaries put is given as an Idol?.

Now what I?m really curious about is that McEwen makes a very interesting point that Effendi could confuse what he thought as the former idols and archery targets with the flight monuments set up at the ok meydani. What do you think?

Hello Ashbow,

Historical reports should be examined by considering the conjuncture of their time as well as the position/character of the reporter.

Despite being one of the important sources, Evliya Chelebi was a collector of rumors, folkloric tales etc. He even reported a cat which was frozen in the air while jumping from a building to another in Erzurum. In the spring she ?melted? and continued her jump. Erzurum?s climate is extremely cold but this report is definetely an exaggration, something that never happened, a tale rather than a fact. There are numerous examples like this in Evliya?s work.

Islamic motifs dominated historical facts due to the cultural interactions between Islamic countries or due to political conflicts between religions. This explanation of ?puta? is undoubtly such a ?sheeth? that the historical fact was inserted in later. A similar example can be seen in the story about innovation of thumbring. It?s based on a conversation between the Prophet Mohammad and his son-in-law Ali. Ali complained that his thumb hurt while shooting the bow. The Prophet suggested him to make a ring to protect his thumb from the bowstring. However, it?s now well-known that Arabs in the pre- and early Islamic era did not have any idea about thumb release and thumbring. They used to draw with four fingers and adopted the thumb release later, probably from Sassanids. My ancestors brought the ancient shooting technique from Central Asia but its origins were masked by the domination of Islamic tradition. Evliya?s report refers to the general thoughts and tendencies of a Muslim-dominant society in which the political power was owned by Muslims but the relationships with non-Muslim minorities were balanced very carefully.

Busbecq was an envoy of Habsburg dynasty and was of course a spy, as was usual at that time. Most of the time he spent in Istanbul he was under strict survaillance and his stay was restricted in the house and neighborhood he lived in. He saw the sultan (S?leyman the ?Lawmaker?) just ones, after waiting for months and he could visit Janissary barracks just once, of course with accompanions who avoided any precise observation of him. He did not get unlimited access to daily life neither. Tekye-i Rumat (School for Archery) as well as the archery fields (okmeydanı) were sufism-related institutions. I doubt if non-muslims were allowed to even access the area. Even for Muslims, the cleaning ritual (abdest) was a must prior to getting in the Field since it was considered to be a holly place like a temple. Archery trainees were accepted only when they were found to be proficient in their moral formation. This esoteric institution has always been far away from foreign eyes.

What he has seen was the so-called ?t?limh?ne?, or civil shooting places. They were like the modern shooting ranges and provided shooting facilities for a reasonable amount of payment. Surely they were open to public. Some of them were small fields or corners between buildings as reported by Busbecq. The target butts here were simple earth-blocks or maybe mass of earth that were kept wet to stop the arrows without damaging them. Whether or not puta was also used in t?limh?ne is another question but we should also take into consideration that puta had his final shape after 17th-18th centuries. Busbecq?s reports are dated back to mid 16th century.

Puta was a target butt used in Archery Fields and must have been developed from earlier forms. It is like a big ?testi?, as we call it, a pitcher made of terra-cota, usually used for carrying water (and keeping it cool). This similarities may indicate that testi were put as targets, which makes sense, because later testi became a norm as target in the muskete training of janissaries. All these support the etimological connection between ?pot? and ?puta?.

Unrelated to his etimological origin, I believe that puta resembles a kneeling human body; its shape and size make me think that (I did not read or hear anything about the similarity to a horse rider). Since archery is a martial art, that would make sense too. The enemy was probably kneeling to protect himself from launched arrows or speers while still being able to shoot. A short examination would prove this: I am 1,86 m tall. My lenght reduced to 115 cm when I kneel and my width was measured 69 cm (one of my elbows slightly bent as if I had a speer in my hand). The size of a puta is 110 cm X 77 cm.

Oh! sorry for the long post. It has been good brainstorming for me...

Best,

Murat

Thanks a lot for your effort, that really explains a lot!

McEwen also points out that the word put could be an old word derived from one of the forms of Buddha. In that case, story of shooting at idols might be re-used from a much earlier event. In the early interactions between the Buddhist Central Asians and the Arabs coming from the West and the Turks coming from the East, many temples and monasteries were destroyed.

Another way of describing the shape of a puta target is of a man seated cross-legged. The various decorative surface appliques could then be representations of the mystical jewels and talismans on the statues. The Mahayana Buddhism practised in Central Asia produce thousands of such images.

In the time of Sultan Mehmet al Fatih, things were more orthodox than the 7th to 10th century. Even the image of an image would have been looked on as irreligious. The similarity of shapes and the sounds of the words would easily lead to the better educated Ottomans to choose a more acceptable etymology for the name of their target assuming that anyone could remember the old one. The Turkish language contains traces of the migrations of the peoples who spoke it in its vocabulary.

Murat's point about the limited access that Christian visitors would have had to sensitive areas, whether religious or military is very important. Bertrandon de la Brocquiere, who travelled through the Ottoman lands just before the conquest of Constantinople, effectively smuggled archery equipment out of Anatolia. He had a Mamluk friend who taught him how to use a thumb ring and helped him buy the equipment, when he was travelling up from Palestine. The Ottoman court was very formalised and well organised. Security levels were high because of the assassination of a previous Sultan. Western ambassadors were closely supervised.