Japanese battlefield archery old documentary

Thank you. Good video. Especialy is clear that kyudo isńt about "zen " and searching a secret soul or another ... Its normal war archery like all over the world. :wink:

These videos are part of the Nihon Kobudo Series, filmed during the 60s (I think) to promote martial arts. This is a Satsuma war technique demonstration. A similar demonstration was shown in Korea's last world festival.

I was wrong about the time these videos were filmed:

"During the 1970's the Japanese Ministry of Education filmed many of the traditional koryu (traditional martial arts before the Meiji Era). These videos are in many cases the only footage available of a particular school and feature high ranking members demontrating the art. In total, the Nihon Kobudo series is 80 volumes."

Dusan,
War archery was called kyujutsu, bow technique. Kyudo is the way of the bow and is quite Zen and also quite different from military archery as you already know.

In Korea there were some very good demonstrations of Japanese military archery. One thing that impressed people mainly familiar with Kyudo was the speed of shooting that was achieved. It is obvious in retrospect that military archers had to shoot quickly, but it is rare to see it done in Japanese archery. The best part was that the archers did not look rushed and maintained the grace that is characteristic of Japanese archery.

Hi Dusan,
Yes, Incidentally someone has called this video ?Old Kyudo movie?.
I think it?s because people sometimes think of the term kyudo as a synonym for all the forms of the Japanese Archery. I doubt if it?s correct but maybe I?m wrong.
I doubt if we can for example refer to yabusame as kyudo?
I understand that the term kyudo refers rather to standardized ceremonial shooting with emphasis on spiritual development and has nothing to do with shooting at an enemy, like Bede has explained. Of course modern kyudo has it?s roots in techniques taught by various martial ryu schools but it?s also a descendant of ancient Chinese ceremonial archery.
In the book by Hideharu Onuma sensei I?ve read that the term kyudo itself was probably first used by the end of seventeenth cent. the time when archery was starting to play bigger role in the social aspect.

Jos?, thank you for the info.
I think I found a link offering the video.
http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer ... 307&page=1

And by the way I also found another ?kyudo? offer, look at this horrible cover!
http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer ... ctid=25102

Behold the yumi that men is drawing looks like strung backwards, and the technique... and the arrows?

All this i understand and know , folks, I don?t like the way that martial arts proceed when they lose their original function and put on the mask of spiritual excercise. :roll:

Dusan; I am not big on spirituality but the spiritual aspect of archery is extremely ancient and parallel to warfare, sports and hunting.

Archery for spiritual, philosophical purposes dates to at least the neolithic. This was a surprise to me also. Divination by arrows predates all the world's religions. -j-

Yes, but if it is ancietnt or not ,its don?t inevitable , that you must trust and honor all this spiritual games. In ancient days have spiritual aspects all over- sex, food, game animals , tools ...all. Mostly in asian figighting and hunting cultures. For me is bow fighting and hunting weapon. Thats all. If anybody wants to pray to a bow , or searching secret soul - its his choice. :lol:

To understand word, you need know Japanese language.
Kyudo, is not one word, but two together.

They are Kyu (弓)and dou (道)

Kyu, means bow
Dou, means a way, road, or way to do something.

The other term kyujutsu is also two words. (弓術)

The second is jutsu (術)
This means a skill or special feat. It also mean method or technique.

Now, with this there is clearer view of the two terms.

-------------------------
btw, that cover is just...omg! :shock:

Alex S. wrote:

To understand word, you need know Japanese language.
Kyudo, is not one word, but two together.

They are Kyu (弓)and dou (道)

Kyu, means bow
Dou, means a way, road, or way to do something.

The other term kyujutsu is also two words. (弓術)

The second is jutsu (術)
This means a skill or special feat. It also mean method or technique.

Now, with this there is clearer view of the two terms.

-------------------------
btw, that cover is just...omg! :shock:

Anyone who has read my book on Korea trad archery knows the terminology is also a bit controversial in Korea, too. Goongdo (弓道) was a term the Japanese gave to Korean archery during their colonial period (1910-1945), the characters being the same as "kyudo". Before that, the term "goongsool" (弓術) (bow technique) was common. What you will often see nowadays is "hwalssogi", a pure Korean term, which is, literally, "bow shooting".

So...can someone shed light on all this then:
From what I had seen in different sources (wikipedia being the only I can find again right now), kyudo did not really exist until the Tokugawa-period - before that it was only kyujutsu.

Is this or is this not correct?

.
Well, who knows when Japanese archers actually first said "kyudo", but Ogasawara ryu was founded in the 12th/13th century and Heki ryu was founded in the 15th century. That gives them a couple of hundred years to start using the term before the Tokugawa Shogunate.
.

There's a color video of another Heki-ryu demonstration (it's not clear whether this one is of the Insai-ha or Satsuma-ha) here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSxuQ5ahRJ4

Korea and Japan have widely adopted the old Chinese term 'dao' (道) which implies a skill based on an objective set of rules shared by a community. The word Jap. 'jitsu' / Kor. 'sul' use the Chinese word 'shu' (述) which implies an individual skill.

In China, 'dao' has not been used traditionally in relation to the martial arts. 'Shu' is used in relation to popular martial arts, and 'yi' (藝) is used in relation to imperial or official military skills. Some early Japanese texts used the Chinese term (射藝) (Jap. sha-gi) to refer to archery.

I think most of us have read Eugen Herrigel?s famous book and I bet some if not most of that persons would think of it when referring what kyudo is about. No doubt the book has had a big impact on today?s view of Japanese archery.
But when I went to the website appearing in the Mister Micawber?s profile and read the Yamada Shőji?s article ?The Myth of Zen in the Art of Archery? I?m in fact more confused.
http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/pub ... df/586.pdf
The article concerns Eugen Herrigel?s possible misinterpretations of Japanese archery Zen aspect and teachings of his master Awa Kenzo. If we believe what the author wrote the matter was quite different than Herrigel thought (he didn?t know Japanese and had to rely on translator, who wasn?t always present) and Awa?s teachings weren?t associated with Zen and were rather part of his own ?doctrine?. Also it seems that archery in Japan wasn?t so often associated with Zen as one would think when reading ?Zen in the Art of the Archery?
Quote from the article:

In pre-war (II world war)* texts about Japanese archery, with the exception of certain isolated religious sects, there is little or no mention of kyudo?s affinity with Zen. Likewise, among modern practitioners of Japanese archery those people who approach it as one part of Zen training are extremely unusual in Japan.

*my italics

(1:0 for Dusan :wink: )
I recommend the article to anyone concerned.
Anyway Herrigel?s writings are still valid for me, Zen or not ?spirituality? in Japanese archery I can see plenty.

Same problem about religiozity with weapons , martial art etc. is all over the world. Especiali in eastern countries - but more in western people mind. Once i talking about vith Chines kung-fu master. He smailing and said- if western people love this and desire for "religiouz secrets in martial art" we dont tell him no, that is not tru.This is good image for our country and good money-ha-ha-ha. Thats all...Every find what you want...

Hyarmendacil wrote:

There's a color video of another Heki-ryu demonstration (it's not clear whether this one is of the Insai-ha or Satsuma-ha) here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSxuQ5ahRJ4

This looks like satsuma, they also confirm at the end.
Thank you for the link.

Dear all,

as we know, Herrigel had a chair for philosophy in Germany and he was interested in the philosophy of Zen. If you want to practice Zen, you can practice it in all kinds of Do, like Kendo, Judo, Aikido etc. but he wanted to sharp his sense for aiming (with his gun).
I see Herrigels book as a philosophical work. He is very famous in Japan for this, but even japanese people practice Kyudo and not Zen with it.
During Tokugawa-time (1600 - 1868) there was a long period of peace. In this time all war-arts changed from Jutsu into existential practice, influenced through Zen - Do. One of the reasons to practice Zen, was to lose fear from death.
Sensei Awa was a very exalted, famous person and the best archer in his time. Its not so long ago, japanese people liked to talk in pictures or in compaisons and you all know what we call here "quiet post", so to translate japanese into English or German 1:1 is nearly imposible. Too, what I know, "it" does not exist in japanese language. Even in whole Japan there is only one(!) temple-park where a Kyudojo exists.
To shoot a Yumi includes a difficult technic, like playing an instrument. Some time, when you have learned the correct shooting, the spirituell way starts and you perfect your own style.

Peter
I am interested in Zen too and I think it influences all you do, but since 19 years I practice Kyudo, exclusive.