bone bow?? Is it possible??

this is soldier of goguryeo in another goguryeo's mural
he take a strange shaped bow.

Mechwar, that is very interesting!

The illustration of the bow find shows bone slabs like they were used in composite bows of that time. Huns and other people like Sassanids used this kind of bow with long, rigid, non-contact siyahs with reinforcing bone slabs. These were glued sideways on the ears and on the grip of the bow. The bow itself was constructed of wood, horn and sinew as usual.

The wall painting shows this type of bow in braced position (only the upper half of it). It?s interesting to see that in Goguryo period this bow was used in Korea, too.

best regards, JJ

here is more picture.
Actually, i wish to restoration this bone bow.
but i have no idea for making plan :P

Mechwar, its looks like this :

[external image]

If xou can see , bone plates are in many museums .

Mechwar, there is useful information on Hunnic-period Bows in an article by Jack Farrell (http://www.atarn.org/chinese/miran/Bows ... Miran.html)

I remember on this years WTAF Yokhua from Taiwan showing a fine replica of a similar bow from Yuan Dynasty (?), but without bone plates.

JJ

thanks dusan, JJ
that's good information

Mechwar; I believe that we have met at the WTAF archery shoot in Cheonan.

Thankyou for posting on Goguryeo tomb remains. There was previously only one small illustration of two bone plates made at the #1 WTAF Seminar. It has been written many times that this type of bow (we call Hunnic bow) was so widespread that the bone plates have been found from North Korea to Scotland. This must be the bow of which they were speaking.

After the festival, four of us took a road trip which included the national museum in Gongju. These are Baekje Kingdom archery artifacts from royal tombs in that museum. Baekje Kingdom, 18 BCE-660CE, relates roughly to the Sakian period in Central Asia and a time in which the same bow design was used there.

Did you know that Koreans came to Afrasaib (Samarkand) to honor the inauguration of a new king in that period? They are depicted in distinctive costume in a wall mural.

These are Baekje archery artifacts. -j-

This Baekje quiver becomes popular long before it does elsewhere. But the points in the earlier post predate those of Asia by 500 or more years.

Artwork from Baekje shows the quiver worn on the left. -j-

Hello, Mr. Farrel. Yeah, we have met in festival!! :)
Thanks for your information about this network and posts.

I have a plan for making bonebow.
First, i'll collect the bones from my hometown. (There are many cows) :twisted:
I can't sure... really i can make this... but, i`ll try and try again

You could make bowlista from bone.

Rigid bow arms and energy is stored in sinew cables.
The original is gone from paleoplanet, but here is a picture of derivation.
(Perinnejousi and primitive acher do not delete old posts.)

http://www.perinnejousi.fi/keskustelu/f ... ow_913.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e279/ ... CN6108.jpg

NOTE:
Bowlista is not manuballista. Manubalista is handheld "crosbow" like ballista. Bowlista is one without cross.

NOTE2:
Bowlista is not historical name and there are no known historical references for this kind of weapon.

Everybodies reply makes sense in this case.But don?t forget: it is told that there must have been bone bows in history.
According to my knowledge Jim Hamm and me have tried to make bows as a composition of buffalo- ribbon, wood and sinew. The results were not very satisfying, too much stack and slow cast.
But anyway I?m working on it. I got a very useful sounding info by a guy who knows how to make a lots of tools like spoons, combs.......etc. of bone.
He told me that it is possible to make bone more flexible by cooking it in a solution of vinegar and water. Sounds very logical, cause the vinegar is working like a descaling agent.

Michael

Vinegar softing bone only in short time. All we remember this from child age :lol:If we put egg in vinegar , egg was from some time soft and you can put him in botlle . Some of us when dont like go to school put finger in vinegar and next break him :roll: . If bone lay in vinegar longer time, many calcium was lost.

I've heard about bone treated with fermented milk, will that give the same effect (of temporary loose of density) as vinegar acid?

I mean , that all tpic is misunderstand. Mechwar and maybe Korean archeologist wrong think, that bone plats are from bone bow...(thats hard to believe - Korea is -i hear- very "bow country ) But same misunderstand you can meat in many European muzeums. Hornbows are very offten strung in wrong direction. its visible that profesional historicians dont know nothing about this outstanding weapon . Bone bows use North American indians tribes, and Eskimos. But its only "second choise "bow.
Vith milk work , if i remember ,Redhorse. But no vith bone . He work successful vith horn.

If anyone wants to experimwent with making a bone bow, he is welcome. Jim Hamm got this idea from Reginald laubin in his book. Both are mistaken.THERE IS NO BONE BONE COMPOSITE BOW AMONG THE NATIVE AMERICANS. There may be some contrivance among the Eskimos; there are many strange weapons among them.

Bill Holm, you may remember him from Native American Bows, by Hamilton, has researched this myth thoroughly and has never found a bone bow. There was extensive use of backed elk antler bows. These were highly regarded among the Plains Indians and probably were the origin of the myth of bone bows.

Coincidently, the oldest known composites, from Siberia reportedly, were supposed to be antler composites.

If Mechwar is interested in an AUTHENTIC reproduction of a Guguryeo type bow, he should know that the bone plates are only to immobilize the grip and ears from bending. His bow would be powered by layering of wood and horn and sinew.

I personally do not believe that bone could be made to perform as horn but I would also be interested in the result. Anyone with info relevant to ancient Korean archery please feel free to post. -j-

thanks very much, jack, :)
and thanks dusan, your picture is a help to me.
To one's sorrow, bone bow is nothing remain here, and just we can guess from mural and small pieces of history. in korea, no one know about bone bow.
The most of bone bow is used in ancient north country, but now, there is north korea and very wild china area, there is almost closed place, you know. we have lost too much spirit and important culture, include bow. it's returning now, but still insufficiency. no one take account of this things, like a bone bow.

i just want know about "it has whole bone plate body?"
and "commissure method of bone plates"

:( english is so hard....

Mechwar; English is difficult for us too. But you are almost a master.

Read this, look at the drawings.

http://www.atarn.org/chinese/miran/Bows ... Miran.html

See that your bow is similar. The bone only covers the ears and the handle. The limbs power the bow, not the ears, not the handle.

Your illustration of the bone plates should separate the three pieces. OK?

Jack, you?re right.

You know that I try to reconstruct every "may- be- bow".
That?s my way to clearify what?s going on. I don?t discuss too much, I lwant to see things happen. The try and error- thing.
As I mentioned, my bone- bow turned out to be a lame duck.
Maybe one day I?ll give it one more try with bone- plates made flexible with vinegar or milk.

I agree, the bone- plates, Mechwar is asking for, have been used for to enforce the grip and the ends of a bow.
I?ve seen many of such plates among Siberian bow- findings.

Michael

hai mechwar, there are lots contact(friend or some man consider not friend) the chinese and korean in history,and we can find many same or many differ in our history book or liveing or tradition about it , and i can tell you the korean as one nation of 56 nations of china they are live in china east-north and they can live in anywhere inside china,they has some self-government area ,my family has many colonel in china trump army,and they know lots korean is friends together kill the japanese in china, the 90% people in china east-north is han nation and 50% han nation is come form china shandong province, my family also form shandong more than 100 years ago move there ,now in china east-north area all nation is very solidarity and real brother-ly , and lots people is soldier when all war end enjoy there liveing in a good area in my hometown in east-north , and lot of his son is soldier of best china military area,it is not very wild china area, there is not almost closed place, and there most people not take korean more out the chinese form kin and farming civilization and most people not know the huns is part of chinese ,chinese has strong ancestor-name household tradition , i think it is impossibility make it wrong, i can not translate our history book of them ,
汉书卷九十四上 匈奴传第六十四上

匈奴，其先夏后氏之苗裔，曰淳维。唐、虞以上有山戎、猃允、薰粥，居于
北边，随草畜牧而转移。其畜之所多则马、牛、羊，其奇畜则橐佗、驴、骡、
駃騠、騊駼驒奚。逐水草迁徙，无城郭常居耕田之业，然亦各有分地。
无文书，以言语为约束。儿能骑羊，引弓射鸟鼠，少长则射狐菟，肉食。士力能
弯弓，尽为甲骑。其俗，宽则随畜田猎禽兽为生业，急则人习战攻以侵伐，其天
性也。其长兵则弓矢，短兵则刀铤。利则进，不利则退，不羞遁走。苟利所在，
不知礼义。自君王以下咸食畜肉，衣其皮革，被旃裘。壮者食肥美，老者饮食其
余。贵壮健，贱老弱。父死，妻其后母；兄弟死，皆取其妻妻之。其俗有名不讳
而无字。

i has try dip the bone in acetum , it is bone form meat cow not old than 3 years, i am not see anythings exist in acetum :D
and in china has bone bow made in now maybe tibet sell them, the bone bow cost 50$, i will try find picture in our forum many years ago,

i am belief chinese and korean can be more friend in future, any thing is a small case, 30-50 years enough who can powerful and impossible keep to 300-500 years for a National ,

write in our china National Day

Hello

I tried to make such a bow (laminated) but I have to change the construction of the handle part.

it is the upper bow in the last photo:

http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/reply/ ... ply-170738

Zolt