SALUKI HYBRID CRAB BOW

One more point to make, these bows are less than half the cost of the hornbows.

The unstrung reflexed profile of hornbows cannot be matched with synthetic materials. You never are going to see a "C" shaped unstrung bow besides the horn bows. But the hybrid strung bows looks similar and maybe the performance is close. These bows are in the experimental field but Lukas said he likes the results so far.
I want to know more about these new bows too.

Nice looking bows. The Scythian looks great. I bet the perform just as well as they look. From what I understand they are feather light as well.

Joe when you get one you will have to let me know:)

Hey JBL,

I will for sure. Its just the cost of a horn bow from him is just so far out there for a common guy like me that if one could produce a synthetic bow that would perform close to or the same as a horn that would be amazing.

What I would want would the performance without the cost and the "headaches" of balancing, heating, etc...

I had a big honour to shoot several Saluki bows. I don?t know anything about "Hybrid crab bow" and I thing that it isn?t in offer .
Hornbow isn?t only custom bow- it is an art and price is in accordance to this sort of bows. It isn?t as much and i think, that it is good way to spent money for realy archer.
I?m owner of little atypical hybrid Turkish bow 48"long and performance is best from all bows I had in my life. It looks very authenticaly(including celik) and D prophile of sals. Bow is very quickly . 65pounds, 212fps with 30g barreled 28"long arrow. Bow hasn?t handshock and it is whether resistant. I have been shooting from -5?C to +35?C.
Scythian is very good too, but with shorter draw(turkish bow I draw to 31"without stacking)

Jamie..........I agree wholeheartedly. It would be nice to have all the time in the world and be able to do exactly what is needed with the horn bow, heating balancing etc. but Im just not in the position to do that. It is my belief that most people are not. Also, when it comes to hunting, with the temps being below zero or potentially in the 90's it seems as though the bow would be so tempermental in these varied heat conditions.

Perhaps I am wrong but some clarification would be nice by someone who knows.

That is what makes that hybrid bow so interesting. But, it will take someone to try it out.

Joe,
Be patient Lukas as far as he told me said he will make a crab bow hybrid this may be what you want.

I look forward to the progress that Lukas has with this new line as well. He told me he just needs a bit of time to develop them, and it looks like on his site four different styles , including a crab style. I agree totally with Jose that you will never get the reflexed shape of a horn bow with synthetics nor the same performance. Tho Michal's it spitting the arrows out quite nicely. . Also as Michal said not so much considering what it is and a great way to spend your money.
Alan

I have a prototype mongolian hybrid, and I have tried his turkish and scythian models as well. I am happy to say he is also making some korean styles as well so I am very excited to expecially to see his manchu and crab bow designs which are very hard to reproduce with non hornbow "ingredients" without sacrificing performance.
****His turkish bow is very very fast, I shot 80 meters like it was nothing and hit the target each time in the center.
****His mongolian designs are being tweaked in his shop and are being made more recurved thus faster. I tried the pre tweaked design and I can say very little handshock, beautiful, and I outshot him with it along with the turkish so thats why I got it.
****His scythian, very exotic of course, and fast, a little more stacking than other two but barely.

M??a wrote:

I had a big honour to shoot several Saluki bows. I don?t know anything about "Hybrid crab bow" and I thing that it isn?t in offer .
Hornbow isn?t only custom bow- it is an art and price is in accordance to this sort of bows. It isn?t as much and i think, that it is good way to spent money for realy archer.
I?m owner of little atypical hybrid Turkish bow 48"long and performance is best from all bows I had in my life. It looks very authenticaly(including celik) and D prophile of sals. Bow is very quickly . 65pounds, 212fps with 30g barreled 28"long arrow. Bow hasn?t handshock and it is whether resistant. I have been shooting from -5?C to +35?C.
Scythian is very good too, but with shorter draw(turkish bow I draw to 31"without stacking)

I dont blame you for falling for the turkish, I was dumbfounded myself!

As it is mentioned above, nobody will ever be able to fake the quality of a real hornbow.

Good bye tradition.
Do you really think that a Novottny fake is better than any other fake?
Fake is fake is fake is moneymaker.
Fake is only one possibility of reality.
Take tradition or leave it.

Michael

why you need more expensive best bow? the archery is a quite deep and high difficult art, you , will be the beginer forever in the differ distance and precision and wind, is every thing we are play(like the bike and dc) need same as arms race? i believe i can use my beginer bow pk lots beginer archery use best bow, and all the fiberglass bow is expensive, if the weather is good i can shoot 300-800 arrows in one day , the bow end his life not longer than half year, as beginer a cheap wood bow enough for we useing it for differ distance and precision and wind, if you are become a good archery , that is good time buy a best bow

It is not always practical to use a horn bow,By that I mean weather conditions.A good friend of mine ended up ruining a very good hornbow by shooting it in extremely cold weather,same can be said about using a hornbow in rainy conditions.

redhawk wrote:

As it is mentioned above, nobody will ever be able to fake the quality of a real hornbow.

Good bye tradition.
Do you really think that a Novottny fake is better than any other fake?
Fake is fake is fake is moneymaker.
Fake is only one possibility of reality.
Take tradition or leave it.

Michael

Sorry Michael we buy "fakes" because we cant afford a 2000$ bow. If there wasnt any "fakes" out there for people to use, no one would be doing horse archery except for people that can afford to pay thousands of dollars for a bow, there would be no tradition if the "commoners" cant keep it alive. Thats why we get a bow close to a horn bow without the cost. Its the same reason why I am getting a nissan z 350 instead of a lambourgini galladro. It may be a fake galladro, it may not be a real sports car but we still feel that we dont need to pay that much for a faster, smaller car!

how much money the commoners / middle class one year got and save in us or Europe? how much money they spend for food and others in a month

The average middle class citizen makes 45,000 not including income tax per year with college. I dont know about the average price of living for middle class.

Here, you make 10,000 USD per year with some luck....

redhawk, jiao and others ??do you all wear custom made shoes? Believe me, they are the real deal: traditional craftsmanship, finest materials, longer lasting and better fitting than others. Anything else is just "fake"!
You don't? Hm, could be the reason why shoemaking is a dying profession ?
But maybe you have your own priorities on what to spend your hard-earned money. I certainly have, and as far as bows are concerned, I want weapons that I can shoot in all conditions, drag through the undergrowth and so on.
I might one day buy a real composite bow like I might buy a pair of custom made shoes, but not for everyday use, only for special occasions. And I am really glad that I can go to any shop any day and buy some factory-made good looking shoes at an affordable price that may not last forever but will serve me well for a certain length of time.

Just my 2ct.

I think it is interesting about the hybrid because I like to shoot a bow in any weather and I am "lazy" when it comes to certain aspects of bow maintenance. I also don't understand why the hybrid made by Lukas would be any different than some made by other bowyers. The Spitfire is essentially a "hybrid" as are Grozer's TRH and Bio composite bows. Don't get me wrong they look outstanding in the pictures, I am just wondering what he is using differently. I know that Spitfire uses a silk polymer which is different form all other bows I know of.

I would also like to see some side by side testing of the new hybrid vs let's say a glass bow with a wood core or a real hornbow. What would make the hybrid better than glass with a wood core? I know the all glass bows (in general) do not get the performance of the glass and wood core combo. What is in the hybrid that would make it better than a glass or the other "laminates". I am just interested in that fact and at around $850 US Dollars they are not exactly for someone on a budget.

Bottom line shoot what you like and what your pocket book can afford.

any one imagine you has a fake wife(woman android)?

thanks for mongolianarcher and Jos?Dom, i can got 10,000 USD per year with bad luck , no money save in one years end

:?

jbl,

I'm not sure if the material Lukas uses in his Hybrid Bows makes a better performing bow but he told me that with that material he can finally copy the shape of a true hornbow without sacrifying perfomance.

With his glass laminated models he never really could duplicate the looks of authentic hornbows because the materials has totally different working properties than horn, wood and sinew. His glass laminated Turk is a good example of that, it doesn't look like a true turkish hornbow. However, it is a great performing bow (I know that you're are of a different opinion ;)) because he found a good balance between the turkish bow design and the physical working properties of fiberglass and bamboo.

Many horsebow makers or "producers" make the mistake of copying the look of historical hornbows just straight off with some sort of a fiberglass/wood combo and they end up being slow and hand shocky performers. That's certainly not the case with Saluki Bows. And with the new material, you can get both the true look of a hornbow and STILL a great performing bow. I think that is the great thing and advantage about Lukas' Hybrid Bows.

Most things are just better handmade and wort it. I try to do all gear I can do, never buy if I can make it. If I can't I buy it handmade if possible. I build my house, repair my car, make my horse tack and more.
My arrows I do buy, I just can't make them good enough :(
I did buy a browning compound and a samic skb, it took me only a year before my built bows performed better.

See everyone that has ever tried the Hybrid bows will understand what me and Paul, and everyone else is thinking about Lukas' hybrid bows, cant love one till you try one!

Jiao,
You make a very good point. I agree with you whole heartedly.

Pjsingh, you also make a great point in regards to the weather. Where I live it 12 degree today. And I would have a hard time with a hornbow and that is why the hybrid is kinda appealing due to the fact that I hunt and shoot in the snow and very cold and would like a bow that performs like a hybrid, but would not be so sensitive.

I have been shooting my new serpentine bow and it is wood and fiberglass and it is a rocket launcher. All the bow that I can handle right now.

Here is a short video clip of it,

Please any positive criticism than anyone has would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN6524AW324

Parker makes some fantastic bows as well and I have been looking at the bows he makes with a lot of interest as well,I believe he has started making horn composites as well.If my information is correct Lucas navotney is using carbon fiber used by the avaiation industry to manufacture the propellor blades for the choppers.
Raven could you post a pick of your serpentine unstrung on here please.
Thanks

I sure will....................just as soon as I find where my daughter put it. I made the mistake of leaving it out and sure enough she got her hands on it.

But I will just as soon as possible.

By the way..................I need a bow that I can hunt with.......which means stand up to the cold that I hunted in tonight. Which was 18 degrees with blowing snow and in the thick underbrush. I need a bow that can hold up and still perform.

A hornbow requires lots of attention, which would be even more time away from the family and the kids. But, if I have a hybrid or a fiberglass "fake" then I can enjoy this style of archery and still be there to beat on the kids when they need it...............:-)

Those who hunt probably agree, you need something that will hold up.

But that doesnt mean that I wouldnt appreciate a hornbow, just not practical for me right now. Maybe when the kids are in college and Im retired.................years from now...........:-)

Ravenbows, Horn bows may require some special care but they are one of the most durable weapons out there if taken care of. Most likely outlast the fiberglass ones.
Alan

Pjsing, here is the pic that you were requesting.


[external image]

Hopefully this works............by the way the camera was in my coat pocket:-)

Don?t believe all the manipulated prejudices supported by the glass- fibre industry.
Our ancestors have built empires with hornbows, they couldn?t store their weapons in dry warm rooms like we can do it today.
Real hornbows will outlast every plastic- bow.
Plastic bows are very sensitive with hot weather....................
You should know that Saluki bows are by far the most high priced bows ever.
Actually we?ve some more first class bowyers who know how to do a premium job for less money.

Somehow I?ve the feeling that the ATARNET is sometimes abused as a public relation base for our "masters of fake"? Maybe we should open a new section for to discuss "modern bows based on historical designs". That?s much more serious and I would not bother you anymore.

Michael

Redhawk,

You are not bothering but the way in which you made that statement was kind of ill willed. I am here at atarn to learn about the hornbow, it uses and abilities.

I see that you make hornbows.

To refute a point is all well and good and that is how we learn. But to run another down makes one wonder what is the motive.

Lucas Novotny has done alot, good or bad, for horse archery and asian style bows. He has brought about awareness that know one else has been able to accomplish.

Now you might not agree with technique or authenticity or how he may go about it and that is your right.

Redhawk,
I somewhat get what you are coming from, but who are these "first class bowyers who know how to do a premium job for less money"? Because most of the bowyers on this forum dont sell their bows, and the only PREMIUM horn bowyers I know that sell their bows are Koppedrayer, and Novotny. These two bowyers are the only ones that make quality horn bows as I know of. You would be doing me a favor to mention some bowyers that are of their level of expertise that sell for less. The only other good out of USA bowyers I know that sell their bows for cheap is the koreans. They sell for 1000-1500, which is alot cheaper than the 2400-3000 that american bowyers want. Also I believe fiberglass-wood bowyers are "masters of practicality" instead of "masters of fakes".

I?m sorry, but there are several different questions.
Traditional archery
Traditional bowyery
Prices
I?m traditional archer. My reason is, that for traditional archery is neccesary traditional bow, traditional arrow and traditional style. Historical costume is dispensable.
Traditional bow is possible to make or buy and believe me, that I was trying first way. I?m basicaly sure, that only traditional bow is usefull for hunting and war and draw weight starts on 80 pounds. I wasn?t succesfull. Maximum draw weight on my bow was 55 pounds and bow didn?t work well.
But I?m fanatical competitor and to have some bow is neccesary for me.

Next possible way is to buy it. I saw only few good hornbows in my life (not including museal exponates). Yokhua, Novotn?, Karpowitz and although I never had in my hand, I know that Jap Koppedrayer is good bowyer too.
With Saluki hornbow I was shooting in very rainy day (on bogenmesse in Neubach) and Lukas didn?t affraid. Price means my clear income for 2 month, but for instance my wife is more expensive hobby :lol:
Hornbow of this quality is my dream , and I?m working to have it.

I would like to be traditional bowyer. To have ancestors, which learned me they proffesionality for continue in tradition. Unfortunately I was only trying to discover old technologies. It wasn?t tradition , it was recognoscation.
At present I have hybrid bow with size, shape and performance the same as hornbow and to comming hornbow, I?m satisfied.
I highly respect all with enthusiasm and enough will which are discovering for us nice world of hornbows and enlarge our knowledges

Jiao,I agree with you, everyone wants to own the best bow, this is missing the point of archery, the bow is for shooting and hitting what is aimed at, not just something to be owned and diplayed on the wall and shot occasionaly. The main objective is to become a good archer, then the good bow will come. The best bows are meant to be owned by the best archers, but in these modern materialistic times we just want to collect and own everything without the discioline of practice

I see both sides of the argument and that is one reason why when I was a finger shooter I would shoot bows made of only natural materials. Which I made myself.

Unfortunatly I found three problems with owning a "hornbow" the first cash, the second is finding a bowyer who I feel is not "ripping" me off; with the cost of some fiberglass bows going at $800 + in American dollars I can only believe the "mark up" on a hornbow is at least twice as much, the third is I myself do not know how to make a composite hornbow...yet.

As far as durabilty the hornbow is more durable then it's glass counterpart. The problem is the average person does not know the maintenace of a hornbow and what it takes to ensure the bow is balanced properly upon stringing.