Turkish Quiver Support Strap
Turkish quivers usually have a third strap on the inside face of the quiver to help balance the weight of the arrows in the short quiver body. This is a similar function to the support strap used on Manchu quivers though the method of attachment differs. The Manchus used a small ring attached to the quiver and in earlier examples, the strap ran through a hole in the pockets attached to the inner face of the quiver.
The Turks used several types of attachment method. The earliest I have seen was on a quiver given to Ferdinand of Tyrol. On that quiver, a small horizontal piece of leather was sewn onto the inner face of the quiver, partway down from the mouth and in from the rear edge. A later quiver from the mediaeval Museum of Bologna has several such applied strips of leather and and the remains of the support strap running through them.
Another method was to cut pairs of slits in the inner face of the quiver and run straps through them. There are two illustrations of this in the Karlsruhe catalogue. In one the strap is complete and in the other the strap is missing, but there are indentations in the leather showing where it went.
In the following posts I will show haw to make and mount one of these straps.
The Turks used several types of attachment method. The earliest I have seen was on a quiver given to Ferdinand of Tyrol. On that quiver, a small horizontal piece of leather was sewn onto the inner face of the quiver, partway down from the mouth and in from the rear edge. A later quiver from the mediaeval Museum of Bologna has several such applied strips of leather and and the remains of the support strap running through them.
Another method was to cut pairs of slits in the inner face of the quiver and run straps through them. There are two illustrations of this in the Karlsruhe catalogue. In one the strap is complete and in the other the strap is missing, but there are indentations in the leather showing where it went.
In the following posts I will show haw to make and mount one of these straps.
The type of strap I am discussing can be made with either a strip of leather split into two equal tongues or one with one long and one short tongue.
Here is a picture of the two types laid out next to each other. In both cases, the undivided part of the strap is folded over and sewn to make a loop for the belt. One of the pendant straps has a slit made in it for tying off the other strap to adjust the overall length of the support strap.
Here is a picture of the two types laid out next to each other. In both cases, the undivided part of the strap is folded over and sewn to make a loop for the belt. One of the pendant straps has a slit made in it for tying off the other strap to adjust the overall length of the support strap.
This is a picture of the inner face of the quiver with four pairs of slots cut into it. You can see the traces of the original support I made impressed into the leather. Similar impressions can be seen on one of the quivers at Karlsruhe.
This is a picture of the strap threaded through the little slots before it has been tied off. In this state it is easy to adjust and test the angle of the quiver. If I had used the other strap, the tie off point would have been at the base of the quiver, which I think is less useful.
This is how the strap is tied off when the length has been correctly adjusted. It is easy to untie if you have problems later or decide on a different angle for horseback use compare to use on foot.
This type of knot is common on rawhide bridles, but many other ways of finishing of the strap could have been used. I find this a practical choice.
This type of knot is common on rawhide bridles, but many other ways of finishing of the strap could have been used. I find this a practical choice.
Brilliant! Thanks a lot!
Me replicate :)
Me replicate :)
Just thought I would post some pictures of my replica of your quiver, Bede. :) Thanks again for the instructions and pictures. The strap works very well. This is by far the most stable quiver I've tried.
It is made from vegetable tanned leather dyed black in iron-oxide-water. I used the same bath as for the first Indopersian one. The age of the water definitely made the process go faster and blackened the leather better too. There was no vinegar in the water, just steel wool and water mixed for some months.
The sides and bottom are made from 3mm thick leather, and the perforated top from 4,5mm. Wooden plate in the bottom. The octagonal copper hangers are made from hammered and filed coins 8) Straps from 2,5mm leather.
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It is made from vegetable tanned leather dyed black in iron-oxide-water. I used the same bath as for the first Indopersian one. The age of the water definitely made the process go faster and blackened the leather better too. There was no vinegar in the water, just steel wool and water mixed for some months.
The sides and bottom are made from 3mm thick leather, and the perforated top from 4,5mm. Wooden plate in the bottom. The octagonal copper hangers are made from hammered and filed coins 8) Straps from 2,5mm leather.
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![[external image]](http://kviljo.no/bue/kogger/1.jpg){kind=link}
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![[external image]](http://kviljo.no/bue/kogger/2.jpg){kind=link}
That is a nice job. I would carry both parts of the strap through the middle pair of slots. This is closer to the surviving quivers and leaves a smaller loose amount of strap.
I think I have written this before. The two straps from the leading edge of the quiver actually go through slots or mounts on the belt. The lowest strap is attached near to the buckle or belt hook. The new Dresden catalogue shows several forms of quiver belt in detail and is a good source of design for belt pieces. The fixed attachments to the belt were only of the quiver side. The bow case could slide about to get the best position.
I think I have written this before. The two straps from the leading edge of the quiver actually go through slots or mounts on the belt. The lowest strap is attached near to the buckle or belt hook. The new Dresden catalogue shows several forms of quiver belt in detail and is a good source of design for belt pieces. The fixed attachments to the belt were only of the quiver side. The bow case could slide about to get the best position.
Thanks! Good stuff. That should probably mean that the three straps were not intended to hang vertically from the belt - as they will while using a belt with no slots for them. A good reason to make a belt for it. Will definitely do.
Edit: I fixed the strap :oops: 8)
Edit: I fixed the strap :oops: 8)
Glad to be of help. The attachment strap on the top corner of the quiver can be very short indeed. I have seen some quivers that have this strap as no more than a direct attachment to the belt. I think, from miniature paintings, that this might have depended on the archer's build and the method of drawing the arrow. What I mean is that the position of the quiver is important in determining how efficiently you draw an arrow.
You may enjoy this image pinched from the HERMANN HISTORICA SITE of past auction material. It was listed as a Mongolian quiver. It has back supports.
Jack,
This is a classic Manchu military quiver. It is a very useful picture because it shows most of the mountings with the hinged pockets missing so you cans see the base of the hinges and where they are attached to the inside face of the quiver.
That it should be considered Mongolian is not unusual since in could have been in the possession of a Mongolian banner family for generations.
This is a classic Manchu military quiver. It is a very useful picture because it shows most of the mountings with the hinged pockets missing so you cans see the base of the hinges and where they are attached to the inside face of the quiver.
That it should be considered Mongolian is not unusual since in could have been in the possession of a Mongolian banner family for generations.
Identifying the features on this quiver, you can start at the top.
The belt covers part of the opening, but you can see the hole that a leather cord has been threaded through. That hole was originally one of a pair on each face of the quiver. Two thread narrow bolts went through the holes and their nuts on the inside face were used to close the mouth of the quiver to hold the arrows in position. A padded folded filler was used in the mouth of the quiver to separate the arrows and the bolts went through holes in this spacer. Often the nuts are missing and so to are the bolts so sometimes the holes are empty. A knotted cord cor fulfil the function of the bolts, but that would typically be a field repair.
There are three bases for the hinges that attached the pockets that held blunts or whistling arrows. They are aligned down the left of the centreline of the quiver. Usually there are only two hinges. The three hinges suggest a robust quiver made for tough conditions.
The two rings on slanted supports are the attachment points for the third support strap. On earlier quivers of this type, there is only one ring and a slot is cut through the three pockets to take the strap that is attached to the ring. Some nineteenth century quivers have no slot and the support ring is either missing or out of position. Normally on earlier quivers the rings are closer to the centreline.
The belt hook has a slot for the strap attached to the lower mount on the leading edge of the quiver. In the photo a piece of leather is threaded through this. The next mounting has a slot for the strap that attaches to the top mounting on the leading edge of the quiver. There is probably a third mounting, but it is out of sight behind the quiver. The two other mounts on the belt have loops for the hook rather than holes through the belt as in some other types. These loops are common on fabric belts.
The rings in the holes in the mounts for the straps on the leading edge of the quiver are probably later additions. On most of this type of quiver, small rings were held by folded pieces of metal riveted between the inside and outside faces of the quiver. However in quivers found in Mongolia and Buratia, holes are used to thread the straps through the quiver. This might be a local feature. Perhaps Peter Dekker has found references to this in the Qing documents on military quivers.
The important thing about Qing quivers in the context of this thread is that the third support strap is common to them, Tibetan quivers of the same age, Turkish quivers and Iranian quivers. Even Mogul quivers had a variation of it. This was a common solution to the problem of short quivers overbalancing. In the case of late Mogul quivers, the strap was retained even when the quivers were designed to hang vertically and encase most of the arrows' length.
The belt covers part of the opening, but you can see the hole that a leather cord has been threaded through. That hole was originally one of a pair on each face of the quiver. Two thread narrow bolts went through the holes and their nuts on the inside face were used to close the mouth of the quiver to hold the arrows in position. A padded folded filler was used in the mouth of the quiver to separate the arrows and the bolts went through holes in this spacer. Often the nuts are missing and so to are the bolts so sometimes the holes are empty. A knotted cord cor fulfil the function of the bolts, but that would typically be a field repair.
There are three bases for the hinges that attached the pockets that held blunts or whistling arrows. They are aligned down the left of the centreline of the quiver. Usually there are only two hinges. The three hinges suggest a robust quiver made for tough conditions.
The two rings on slanted supports are the attachment points for the third support strap. On earlier quivers of this type, there is only one ring and a slot is cut through the three pockets to take the strap that is attached to the ring. Some nineteenth century quivers have no slot and the support ring is either missing or out of position. Normally on earlier quivers the rings are closer to the centreline.
The belt hook has a slot for the strap attached to the lower mount on the leading edge of the quiver. In the photo a piece of leather is threaded through this. The next mounting has a slot for the strap that attaches to the top mounting on the leading edge of the quiver. There is probably a third mounting, but it is out of sight behind the quiver. The two other mounts on the belt have loops for the hook rather than holes through the belt as in some other types. These loops are common on fabric belts.
The rings in the holes in the mounts for the straps on the leading edge of the quiver are probably later additions. On most of this type of quiver, small rings were held by folded pieces of metal riveted between the inside and outside faces of the quiver. However in quivers found in Mongolia and Buratia, holes are used to thread the straps through the quiver. This might be a local feature. Perhaps Peter Dekker has found references to this in the Qing documents on military quivers.
The important thing about Qing quivers in the context of this thread is that the third support strap is common to them, Tibetan quivers of the same age, Turkish quivers and Iranian quivers. Even Mogul quivers had a variation of it. This was a common solution to the problem of short quivers overbalancing. In the case of late Mogul quivers, the strap was retained even when the quivers were designed to hang vertically and encase most of the arrows' length.
Thanks for the informative post, Bede! That clears some things up.
I have a quiver much like the one posted above, only mine is more modestly executed. (The front of the one posted is quite nice.) When filled with antique arrows it indeed wants to tip over and couldn't get my head around why.
It has lost its pockets plus all the hardware at the back but there are two small additional holes that I couldn't place. These probably held one of the same mountings as the quiver auctioned at Hermann Historica. Oddly, they are pretty close to leading edge.
My quiver has some further oddities like a third hole between its two suspension mounts at the leading edge. This part being open, perhaps it was for a third closing bolt? There is an imprint of a round piece of metal there, which is now gone.
In texts I've found nothing so far about the details of the suspension. The most detailed descriptions about Qing quivers I found simply state that they are "suspended from a belt". They do describe decoration and materials of these belts, quivers and bow-cases in great detail so I guess the suspension method was assumed to be known to the intended readers.
-Peter
I have a quiver much like the one posted above, only mine is more modestly executed. (The front of the one posted is quite nice.) When filled with antique arrows it indeed wants to tip over and couldn't get my head around why.
It has lost its pockets plus all the hardware at the back but there are two small additional holes that I couldn't place. These probably held one of the same mountings as the quiver auctioned at Hermann Historica. Oddly, they are pretty close to leading edge.
My quiver has some further oddities like a third hole between its two suspension mounts at the leading edge. This part being open, perhaps it was for a third closing bolt? There is an imprint of a round piece of metal there, which is now gone.
In texts I've found nothing so far about the details of the suspension. The most detailed descriptions about Qing quivers I found simply state that they are "suspended from a belt". They do describe decoration and materials of these belts, quivers and bow-cases in great detail so I guess the suspension method was assumed to be known to the intended readers.
-Peter
BTW: Here is a link to a high-res picture of the front of the quiver auctioned at Hermann Historica:
http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion ... /04466.jpg
-Peter
http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion ... /04466.jpg
-Peter
Peter,
The third hole is for a rivet that closes the upper section of the leading edge of the quiver. Earlier quivers were not sewn between the leading edges' two suspension points. Those that had "L" shaped wooden frames were riveted through the frames up to the lower suspension point. Those with a wooden base only were sewn up to the lower suspension point.
The middle-of-the-inside-face ring for the third strap is attached closer to the leading edge in several later quivers I have seen. It is possible that when the strap was threaded back through the pockets it caused them to wrap around the body slightly. I am finishing another of these quivers soon so I will put in two rings at different positions and see how they work.
The third hole is for a rivet that closes the upper section of the leading edge of the quiver. Earlier quivers were not sewn between the leading edges' two suspension points. Those that had "L" shaped wooden frames were riveted through the frames up to the lower suspension point. Those with a wooden base only were sewn up to the lower suspension point.
The middle-of-the-inside-face ring for the third strap is attached closer to the leading edge in several later quivers I have seen. It is possible that when the strap was threaded back through the pockets it caused them to wrap around the body slightly. I am finishing another of these quivers soon so I will put in two rings at different positions and see how they work.