Asian wooden bows
If we talk about Asian Bowery tradition, we?re talking above all about hornbows of Korean, Scythian or Osmanian origine.
Sometimes there are topics focused on Yumi bows and bows of Bhutan, these are made of bamboo.
There are the 2-lam wooden bows of Northern Asia.
According to my knowledge the best known Asian wooden bow is the Andaman- Island bow.
But I?m sure there have to be much more types of wooden bows in the history of Asian bowery? Above all I?m interested in selfbows.
Michael
Sometimes there are topics focused on Yumi bows and bows of Bhutan, these are made of bamboo.
There are the 2-lam wooden bows of Northern Asia.
According to my knowledge the best known Asian wooden bow is the Andaman- Island bow.
But I?m sure there have to be much more types of wooden bows in the history of Asian bowery? Above all I?m interested in selfbows.
Michael
Americ^h^H^H^h^H^h^H Chinese flatbow:
http://www.atarn.org/letters/ltr_dec00.htm
Misc:
http://www.atarn.org/india/sri_lanka.htm
Bhutan self bamboo bow:
http://www.atarn.org/tibet_bhutan/bhutan/bhutan01.htm
(NOTE: not all bamboo works...)
http://www.atarn.org/letters/ltr_dec00.htm
Misc:
http://www.atarn.org/india/sri_lanka.htm
Bhutan self bamboo bow:
http://www.atarn.org/tibet_bhutan/bhutan/bhutan01.htm
(NOTE: not all bamboo works...)
thanks, jkekoni, that?s what I would like to see, thanks Stephen.
If there is more, it is very welcome.
Michael
If there is more, it is very welcome.
Michael
Stephen, as a selfbow this bow should make a 28" drawlength.
I don?t know much about pellet- bows.
Michael
I don?t know much about pellet- bows.
Michael
You're right, Redhawk. That Han flatbow should certainly be capable of a 27" or 28" draw. And with limbs approximating 1/2" thick it's going to have a 50# plus draw weight I'd guess. Not a horn bow with "draw to the ear" capability, but certainly capable of significant striking power at significant range.
Given those specs, that bow should be relatively easy to replicate.
Given those specs, that bow should be relatively easy to replicate.
I forget to mention the Scythian bow- finding of olon kurin gol, an all wood- lamination made of 12- 14 slats. Olon kurin gol is a river in the Altai- region.
According to the trees growing there it should not has to be a problem to find the wood a selfbowyer needs, maybe the Scythians did like the hard way to go?
Maybe it?s the same story like it has happened in Northern America: people avoided the Steppe, until they know how to handle it with horses?
So you?ll never see any selfbow- findings there.
We know of selfbows and bows made of bamboo in Northern Siberia, Japan, Indonesia, Andaman Islands...............Europe, regions all around the Central Asian Steppe.
It is hard to believe that there is only one known example of Chinese selfbow, what kind of bows did the ancestors of the Osmanians, Tartars....... use before developing their outstanding hornbows. What about India?
KenH, yes this bow is worth a recoinstruction, a wood I know that is sensemaking in this context is mulberry, one of the best bow- woods.
The bow has well thought out cross- sections.
Michael
According to the trees growing there it should not has to be a problem to find the wood a selfbowyer needs, maybe the Scythians did like the hard way to go?
Maybe it?s the same story like it has happened in Northern America: people avoided the Steppe, until they know how to handle it with horses?
So you?ll never see any selfbow- findings there.
We know of selfbows and bows made of bamboo in Northern Siberia, Japan, Indonesia, Andaman Islands...............Europe, regions all around the Central Asian Steppe.
It is hard to believe that there is only one known example of Chinese selfbow, what kind of bows did the ancestors of the Osmanians, Tartars....... use before developing their outstanding hornbows. What about India?
KenH, yes this bow is worth a recoinstruction, a wood I know that is sensemaking in this context is mulberry, one of the best bow- woods.
The bow has well thought out cross- sections.
Michael
There are quite a few bamboo hand bows excavated from the southern state of Chu in the Warring States period. They are often of three laminations with the two arm laminations overlapping in the middle of the bow with a shorter central lamination supporting them. They look like flat bows with a slightly stiffer mid-section.
Stephen has an all wood Chinese longbow. There are Wei Dynasty (or Northern Yan) murals showing horsemen with what appear to be long bows in half cases.
china has had a long tradition of archery that included both wooden bows and composite bows.
Stephen has an all wood Chinese longbow. There are Wei Dynasty (or Northern Yan) murals showing horsemen with what appear to be long bows in half cases.
china has had a long tradition of archery that included both wooden bows and composite bows.
We were discussing this yesterday. Several Niya burials contained two bows: one self longbow and one long-siyah composite like the Khotan bow. They were placed together in the grave. We were unable to account for such a practice.
Self bows have been common in Southwest China. Composite wood bows without horn or sinew were also prevalent in the East of China. Ming manuals refer to 'Western Barbarian Wood Bows." Probably we have tended to pay too much attention to Asian composite bows and ignored the longbows and flatbows.
Andeman bows are a very special case. South Indian bows and the bows of Sri Lanka were simple wood bows made of palm wood. Malays have told me that their traditional bows were made of bamboo.
S
Self bows have been common in Southwest China. Composite wood bows without horn or sinew were also prevalent in the East of China. Ming manuals refer to 'Western Barbarian Wood Bows." Probably we have tended to pay too much attention to Asian composite bows and ignored the longbows and flatbows.
Andeman bows are a very special case. South Indian bows and the bows of Sri Lanka were simple wood bows made of palm wood. Malays have told me that their traditional bows were made of bamboo.
S
Thank you for the comments.
I asked for Asian wooden bows, cause I can?t believe that the composite bows we?re so often discussing here came out of nothing, there must have been some forerunners and reasons for to develop composites.
It would be nice if Stephen could post some more infos about Chinese wooden bows?
Michael
I asked for Asian wooden bows, cause I can?t believe that the composite bows we?re so often discussing here came out of nothing, there must have been some forerunners and reasons for to develop composites.
It would be nice if Stephen could post some more infos about Chinese wooden bows?
Michael
I'll see what I can come up with. Thing is, they're often mentioned in reports; but I can't be sure how accurate the reports are. To be honest, I have sat in a (rather dark) archaeology institute and examined a 'wooden bow'; but I was unable to conclude finally that the original item had not included other materials.
I'll be on a dig in Xinjiang this autumn and I'll pay more attention to the self bows there. I'll scan the report on the two-bow burial and upload interesting bits here.
S
I'll be on a dig in Xinjiang this autumn and I'll pay more attention to the self bows there. I'll scan the report on the two-bow burial and upload interesting bits here.
S
Here is a photo of some Andeman (Sentinelese) bows. I have the bow that belonged to the boy standing to the right.
Again, publications from the bows and arrows museum, Seoul, contain several historical reproductions of wood bows. One interesting item has recurves tied onto a wood bow. These folks are pretty serious so the bows should be considered.
Michael and everyone, WTAF is now accepting applications. Why don't you go there and see what they have. It is a country with a serious heritage and interest in archery. Koreans are interested in all kinds of traditional archery and are most hospitable people. You will be treated like a diplomat.
See events below.
Michael and everyone, WTAF is now accepting applications. Why don't you go there and see what they have. It is a country with a serious heritage and interest in archery. Koreans are interested in all kinds of traditional archery and are most hospitable people. You will be treated like a diplomat.
See events below.
According to my knowledge woods used for bowery used in Asia are mulberry, compression pine and larch by Siberian tribes, tamarisk(Scythians). That?s all what is proofed.
But I guess there are much more woods: elm, ash, locust...............all are highly appreciated in bowery. There must a lots of yew and juniper too in Asia, what about Asian tropical woods? Maybe palm?
Jack, if it would be possible I would like it very much to meet the WTAF.
But its a question of date. I?m very busy guiding bow- classes at schools, so the holidays in summer(August- 15th of September) would be the only possible date to make the WTAF.
Maybe I could do it next year?
Michael
But I guess there are much more woods: elm, ash, locust...............all are highly appreciated in bowery. There must a lots of yew and juniper too in Asia, what about Asian tropical woods? Maybe palm?
Jack, if it would be possible I would like it very much to meet the WTAF.
But its a question of date. I?m very busy guiding bow- classes at schools, so the holidays in summer(August- 15th of September) would be the only possible date to make the WTAF.
Maybe I could do it next year?
Michael
I dont know if you have read old Japanese text, though, they have list several wood that are used in old Japanese selfbows.
Yamato people, or people who make modern Japanese population came from other origin to Japan. They developed longer bows that later become modern yumi most are familiar with. Though, before its just a wood bow, of one piece wood. keyaki (Zelkova serrata) was mentioned many times, and was used for war bow since selfbow was more durable and cheaper to make than laminated yumi which was not strong against all weather. That is why old war yumi made in wood composite form has many wrapping of rattan binding and very thick urushi coating. This type of selfbow is called maruki yumi or log wood bow.
Another wood that is mentioned is mulberry, though, this was mentioned as more for gift to newborn son, though it is possible it is also used for selfbow since bowyers knew its a bow wood.
Also, there is one species that was confusing. The Japanese name for this wood is used for three species actually, so it take me longer to find which they talk about. The three woods using this name are Melia azedarach, Santalum album, and Euonymus hamiltonianus all usually refered to just as 檀. Though, later you find different more specific spelling of name. This now defines these three woods as 白檀 (biyakudan), 栴檀 (sendan) and
栴弓　(mayumi). Biyakudan is sandlewood, and does not grow in Japan, but was imported through China from India to Japan to use for incense. Sendan is Chinaberry and uses the same character because its wood has strong fragrant similar to sandlewood. Another characteristic of sandlewood is it is hard and heavy, and the last wood mayumi (spindlewood) is also hard and heavy wood, so it is given the same character. The difference is the last character for its name, yumi, which means bow. This defines it as a bow wood, and so I believe it is this wood they refer to for being used as bows. I have tried the wood and it is very elastic and hard, it fits their description very well.
So, we can say that Zelkova serrata and Euonymus hamiltonianus are definitely selfbow woods, and mulberry should be included.
For pre-Yamato people, there are Ainu bows. These were much shorter bows, cannot remember exact but about 140 cm, some smaller. Many were said to be quite crude, especially a bow made for trap. The main wood they use is yew wood. In Ainu it is called onko and ichii in Japanese. Another wood that is mentioned is Torreya nucifera, which is called kaya (榧). This wood is also sometimes mentioned for use as maruki yumi, so its possible that Yamato people use it too. Ainu bows were also described to have binding from bark of tree (possibly elm inner bark or birch since elm inner bark was widely used in Ainu craft and birch is very common in Hokkaido area) and also a coating of urushi.
[/img]
Yamato people, or people who make modern Japanese population came from other origin to Japan. They developed longer bows that later become modern yumi most are familiar with. Though, before its just a wood bow, of one piece wood. keyaki (Zelkova serrata) was mentioned many times, and was used for war bow since selfbow was more durable and cheaper to make than laminated yumi which was not strong against all weather. That is why old war yumi made in wood composite form has many wrapping of rattan binding and very thick urushi coating. This type of selfbow is called maruki yumi or log wood bow.
Another wood that is mentioned is mulberry, though, this was mentioned as more for gift to newborn son, though it is possible it is also used for selfbow since bowyers knew its a bow wood.
Also, there is one species that was confusing. The Japanese name for this wood is used for three species actually, so it take me longer to find which they talk about. The three woods using this name are Melia azedarach, Santalum album, and Euonymus hamiltonianus all usually refered to just as 檀. Though, later you find different more specific spelling of name. This now defines these three woods as 白檀 (biyakudan), 栴檀 (sendan) and
栴弓　(mayumi). Biyakudan is sandlewood, and does not grow in Japan, but was imported through China from India to Japan to use for incense. Sendan is Chinaberry and uses the same character because its wood has strong fragrant similar to sandlewood. Another characteristic of sandlewood is it is hard and heavy, and the last wood mayumi (spindlewood) is also hard and heavy wood, so it is given the same character. The difference is the last character for its name, yumi, which means bow. This defines it as a bow wood, and so I believe it is this wood they refer to for being used as bows. I have tried the wood and it is very elastic and hard, it fits their description very well.
So, we can say that Zelkova serrata and Euonymus hamiltonianus are definitely selfbow woods, and mulberry should be included.
For pre-Yamato people, there are Ainu bows. These were much shorter bows, cannot remember exact but about 140 cm, some smaller. Many were said to be quite crude, especially a bow made for trap. The main wood they use is yew wood. In Ainu it is called onko and ichii in Japanese. Another wood that is mentioned is Torreya nucifera, which is called kaya (榧). This wood is also sometimes mentioned for use as maruki yumi, so its possible that Yamato people use it too. Ainu bows were also described to have binding from bark of tree (possibly elm inner bark or birch since elm inner bark was widely used in Ainu craft and birch is very common in Hokkaido area) and also a coating of urushi.
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Alex; Japanese also use Haze ? (Sumac) for laminates in bamboo yumi as well as Catalpa. Were these used in self bows?
Your info is good, thanks.
Stephen and Yi Degang listed 5 old preferred woods for Chinese hornbows.
Japanese also used whale baleen for carriage type self bows. -j-
Your info is good, thanks.
Stephen and Yi Degang listed 5 old preferred woods for Chinese hornbows.
Japanese also used whale baleen for carriage type self bows. -j-
Yes, you are right of the baleen bows.
Haze is only used for the reason because it is brittle. Bamboo can bend but does not have speed to return, haze can return quickly before they fail, and the bamboo keeps the haze from failing in tension and compression. For this reason, they know already that haze (sumac) is not suitable for selfbow. Is this called low hysteresis? Something similar to cherry wood.
From what I know about catalpa, it is not used for shooting bow, but ornament? I am not very sure about this wood, have only heard of it being used once and not for selfbow. I think most American that try catalpa wood also report it is brittle and soft.
Haze is only used for the reason because it is brittle. Bamboo can bend but does not have speed to return, haze can return quickly before they fail, and the bamboo keeps the haze from failing in tension and compression. For this reason, they know already that haze (sumac) is not suitable for selfbow. Is this called low hysteresis? Something similar to cherry wood.
From what I know about catalpa, it is not used for shooting bow, but ornament? I am not very sure about this wood, have only heard of it being used once and not for selfbow. I think most American that try catalpa wood also report it is brittle and soft.
Catalpa had spiritual connotations and shamans used catalpa bows. I have a book on it somewhere called The Catalpa Bow, but I can't remember any mention of ordinary bows being made solely from this wood.
The baleen riman-kyu bows were quite effective at short range, which was what they were made for. They had well developed recurves and unusual nocks.
The baleen riman-kyu bows were quite effective at short range, which was what they were made for. They had well developed recurves and unusual nocks.
he, that?s great info Alex, thanks a lot.
euonymus is my favourite bow- wood. I did know it since I met a wood turner last year, who didn?t use any other wood due to the outstanding capablities of it. Its name spindlewood means that it even has been used for to make gear wheels and other parts of early machines. I can?t find any historical proove of its use in bowery in Europe or America.
It has been mentioned in the PALEOPLANET bowery forum as a great but difficult to get bowwood. Maybe it was not used in Europe cause it is known as an brush highly appreciated by Celtic shamans, it is indeed very strange looking and very poisonous
Anyway I gave it a try, really great bows.
You can have a look at 2 of my euonymus- bows at http://redhawk55.wordpress.com , look for "euonymus- my favourite bowwood"
Alex, you have made me curious a lot: do you have pics or paintings or measurements of those Japanese selfbows?
Michael
euonymus is my favourite bow- wood. I did know it since I met a wood turner last year, who didn?t use any other wood due to the outstanding capablities of it. Its name spindlewood means that it even has been used for to make gear wheels and other parts of early machines. I can?t find any historical proove of its use in bowery in Europe or America.
It has been mentioned in the PALEOPLANET bowery forum as a great but difficult to get bowwood. Maybe it was not used in Europe cause it is known as an brush highly appreciated by Celtic shamans, it is indeed very strange looking and very poisonous
Anyway I gave it a try, really great bows.
You can have a look at 2 of my euonymus- bows at http://redhawk55.wordpress.com , look for "euonymus- my favourite bowwood"
Alex, you have made me curious a lot: do you have pics or paintings or measurements of those Japanese selfbows?
Michael
http://image.baidu.com/i?ct=503316480&z ... 0&s=0&se=1
Chinese Warring States Period bamboo bow, 3 layer bamboo, ntn 112cm wide 2.7cm thickness 2cm
Chinese Warring States Period bamboo bow, 3 layer bamboo, ntn 112cm wide 2.7cm thickness 2cm
Michael,
Sorry, I have not yet find painting, still search. Though, most text tell these bows were longer than 2 meter. I have been told old war yumi has gentler curve and so I believe the selfbows may only have recurve on upper limb if even that. Its easy to see in old painting they draw the bow with straight limb, you dont see any recurve so its possible old selfbow is simply asymmetrical longbow. The nocks would be the same as those on modern yumi since they are also used on other types of Japanese bows.
If I find some painting I will post.
Sorry, I have not yet find painting, still search. Though, most text tell these bows were longer than 2 meter. I have been told old war yumi has gentler curve and so I believe the selfbows may only have recurve on upper limb if even that. Its easy to see in old painting they draw the bow with straight limb, you dont see any recurve so its possible old selfbow is simply asymmetrical longbow. The nocks would be the same as those on modern yumi since they are also used on other types of Japanese bows.
If I find some painting I will post.
<Euonymus Europaeus>
http://chestofbooks.com/flora-plants/fl ... eus-L.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euonymus_europaeus
http://www.luomus.fi/kasviatlas/maps.ph ... &year=2008
Height: 3 - 4 m Width: 2,50 - 3,0 m Source: http://puutarha.net/index.asp?s=/suorak ... asp?id=352
[external image]
http://chestofbooks.com/flora-plants/fl ... eus-L.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euonymus_europaeus
http://www.luomus.fi/kasviatlas/maps.ph ... &year=2008
Height: 3 - 4 m Width: 2,50 - 3,0 m Source: http://puutarha.net/index.asp?s=/suorak ... asp?id=352
[external image]
![[external image]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/2006-08-09-Euonymus05.jpg/516px-2006-08-09-Euonymus05.jpg){kind=link}
Jiao; Stephen and all; Does anyone have a cvloseup of the construction of the Warring States laminated bamboo bows?
Jack,
I have a diagram from the archaeologists' report, but I am not sure it is good enough to make a reproduction from. I have seen photographs of the intact bows, but you really can't see the construction.
I have a diagram from the archaeologists' report, but I am not sure it is good enough to make a reproduction from. I have seen photographs of the intact bows, but you really can't see the construction.
i hear form tv about a tomb of china han dynasty maybe it call mawangdui(马王堆汉墓）, a man find the laminated bow in the tomb has thousand layers more thin than the paper ,i'm not know how many bow find in the tomb and which bow has thousand layers ,
in china hubei province museum has 25 bamboo bows of chu country of Warring States，if we can find a break bamboo laminated bow that is very good luck for see the construction, i am has no free money go the museum for the picture or do the research, i guess stephen no money do it also, but if stephen as atarn institution send a email to the museum got some help maybe not so difficult, http://www.hubeimuseum.net/index.jsp
bede :can you show your have seen photographs of the intact bows?
in china hubei province museum has 25 bamboo bows of chu country of Warring States，if we can find a break bamboo laminated bow that is very good luck for see the construction, i am has no free money go the museum for the picture or do the research, i guess stephen no money do it also, but if stephen as atarn institution send a email to the museum got some help maybe not so difficult, http://www.hubeimuseum.net/index.jsp
bede :can you show your have seen photographs of the intact bows?
Best exploid for wood bow in Teleuti -Siberian tribe . Bow like babys cradle :)
[external image]
[external image]
[external image]
![[external image]](http://img.janforman.com/th/..y02m.jpg){kind=link}
[external image]
![[external image]](http://img.janforman.com/th/..18hat.jpg){kind=link}
The strongest part of bamboo is the outtest layer under the "shiny one".jiao wrote:
i hear form tv about a tomb of china han dynasty maybe it call mawangdui(马王堆汉墓）, a man find the laminated bow in the tomb has thousand layers more thin than the paper ,i'm not know how many bow find in the tomb and which bow has thousand layers.
The weakest parts are those insine and the nodes.
I read the above that there is bow costructed from multiple thin layers of bamboo (glued together).
If one would make a bow from multitude of thin slices of the outtest layer without nodes. These layers would be glued toheter with natural glue with distributing the shortest parts similar to the way the sinew ends are distributed in sinew layer. Could this be efficient bow material. Or bow back and belly material.
At least it would be a process taking a lot work to construct...
The same as Bede, I have seen the reports. Clearly there were wooden build-outs at the grip and the tips. The rest remains a bit obscure. The archaeological reports identify the build-outs but postulate a single bamboo strip for the limbs. I find that unlikely.jack farrell wrote:
Jiao; Stephen and all; Does anyone have a cvloseup of the construction of the Warring States laminated bamboo bows?
As to the ones I have inspected personally, they were covered in an outer layer of lacquer and no-one was prepared to do an x-ray.
I'll look up the report (Grace of Marquis Zeng Yi), Late Spring and Autumn Period, Hubei.
S
Please go to: www.paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/34603
........you?ll like it. Actual bowery and a very special kind of archery in India.
Michael[/url]
........you?ll like it. Actual bowery and a very special kind of archery in India.
Michael[/url]
I like these Nenets bows:
http://www.arcticphoto.co.uk/results.as ... archnum=32
http://www.arcticphoto.co.uk/results.as ... archnum=32
Szabi
http://www.arcticphoto.co.uk/results.as ... archnum=32
http://www.arcticphoto.co.uk/results.as ... archnum=32
Szabi