Information for hornbowyers in Serbia and area
I need to inform those ones in Serbia and (possibly) area which order buffalo hornstrips from Europe.
If you order two hornstrips wheter from dick.biz or Highland horns you may know that your expenses are not finnished if it arrives. You may count custom duty +35EUR and your expenses will be then about 110EUR. If someone needs to avoid this ''flaying'' i suggest ram's horn long enough, obtained from some sheep breeder-though sheep horn seem to be very difficult for processing. I found one from Montenegro (since i need autochtonous breed from area) and he promised me to collect horn for me (of course i don't need to pay anything but i will do it in the spite of custom :) )
I would like to know about situation in area (Bulgaria,Croatia,Montenegro...)
On wood, find serious seller(very difficult to find) if you need to avoid question:what do you need wood for?, because you will never reach this guy again if you say that you need it for bowmaking :) and you have to understand them . Or cut the wood by yourself, it is painless.
On sinew, again find some serious guy in slaughterhouse or whatever and if you need to answer question ''what do you need sinew for?'', your answer should be something like:for medical treatment, healing or something similar.
Hope that only me often experienced these weird things.
Best regards,
If you order two hornstrips wheter from dick.biz or Highland horns you may know that your expenses are not finnished if it arrives. You may count custom duty +35EUR and your expenses will be then about 110EUR. If someone needs to avoid this ''flaying'' i suggest ram's horn long enough, obtained from some sheep breeder-though sheep horn seem to be very difficult for processing. I found one from Montenegro (since i need autochtonous breed from area) and he promised me to collect horn for me (of course i don't need to pay anything but i will do it in the spite of custom :) )
I would like to know about situation in area (Bulgaria,Croatia,Montenegro...)
On wood, find serious seller(very difficult to find) if you need to avoid question:what do you need wood for?, because you will never reach this guy again if you say that you need it for bowmaking :) and you have to understand them . Or cut the wood by yourself, it is painless.
On sinew, again find some serious guy in slaughterhouse or whatever and if you need to answer question ''what do you need sinew for?'', your answer should be something like:for medical treatment, healing or something similar.
Hope that only me often experienced these weird things.
Best regards,
Zoran you're surely not the only who have this problem :lol:
here it's more difficult to find something for bowmaking! :!:
here it's more difficult to find something for bowmaking! :!:
Happy i wasn't and am not the only one :D Funny thing, seems to be easier to find good heavy metal bands there(i didn't believe!) than material for bowmaking. Can you find long sheep horns?hcspng wrote:
Zoran you're surely not the only who have this problem :lol:
here it's more difficult to find something for bowmaking! :!:
I think it is not problem to find material, there's a lot of material around, but the problem is the way people look at you when you ask for it.It is because of lost tradition and i understand it, but it is nice to do effort to revitalize lost art. After you find good source it is easy to continue without explaination ''well...hm... you know, i need it for bowmaking'' :shock: Wish you good luck friend.
Best regards,
Yes Zoran i'm agree with you.
Here sheeps doessn't have long horns and we have water buffalo here and unfortunaitly they don't let thhe horn become more that 20 cm long.
I've found a kind of cow here but far from me about 1700 km(borders of Iran and Pakistan) which have long horn aboun 30 in and more.this cow is a bison from Pakistan.
Here sheeps doessn't have long horns and we have water buffalo here and unfortunaitly they don't let thhe horn become more that 20 cm long.
I've found a kind of cow here but far from me about 1700 km(borders of Iran and Pakistan) which have long horn aboun 30 in and more.this cow is a bison from Pakistan.
Mohammad,
if you want to revitalize part of your tradition then it is worth to go 1700 km. I think i am in better position than you about some of materials but you are in better position about museums. So you can use patterns and i hope there are written sources in farsi, i can find very humble written datas about medieval archery in my area but i came to numerous conclusions after i exchanged ideas with other people. Have you ever made some contact with people from museums? Are there some conservers of old weapon?
I wish you good luck in your research and i support it.
Best regards,
if you want to revitalize part of your tradition then it is worth to go 1700 km. I think i am in better position than you about some of materials but you are in better position about museums. So you can use patterns and i hope there are written sources in farsi, i can find very humble written datas about medieval archery in my area but i came to numerous conclusions after i exchanged ideas with other people. Have you ever made some contact with people from museums? Are there some conservers of old weapon?
I wish you good luck in your research and i support it.
Best regards,
Archery friends in China will support you in obtaining materials if we can. But your Customs problems you have to sort out for yourselves.
Why do the suppliers run away from bow-makers? Do they treat you as arms dealers?
S
Why do the suppliers run away from bow-makers? Do they treat you as arms dealers?
S
Stephen, thank you for support.Stephen Selby wrote:
Archery friends in China will support you in obtaining materials if we can. But your Customs problems you have to sort out for yourselves.
Why do the suppliers run away from bow-makers? Do they treat you as arms dealers?
S
But my wish was to inform people from area what they can expect about expenses. I didn't mean that it will be problem for them, but i wrote for the knowledge of those ones that are ready to obtain horn.
Perhahps i exaggerated with sarcasm. Sellers do not treat bowmakers as arm dealers, nothing to do with that(though there is strong law about archery equipement, you need to be member of some association to get bow and permission of authorities, i don't need to say that bowhunting is forbidden), but most of them do not know anything about archery and they treat bows and arrows as willow stick for child's play and they often do not have a wish to spend their time for one tree. There's a few people which know what i exactly need but i spent a time to find them.
Best regards,
one of my friends have truck and is in the line of good transfer.on summer they go there and he'll bring me some horns.and now i've a pair of it but it's too though and not like water buffalo horn but i'm trying to find a way to use it.
yes there are few text on archery and a bit on bow making but contacting museums is not very easy.it's more than two year that want to go to Military Museum of Tehran and thhey don't let me do this.in this mueum there is more that 10 composite and many arrow.
But i'll still try to go there.
yes there are few text on archery and a bit on bow making but contacting museums is not very easy.it's more than two year that want to go to Military Museum of Tehran and thhey don't let me do this.in this mueum there is more that 10 composite and many arrow.
But i'll still try to go there.
I thought that there is more bows in Military museum in Teheran. Sad that you need permission and have to wait long time. It is easier here, i had a luck to know mrs.Radovic and it is not too difficult to get permission to take measurements of several exposed bows and few chinese and ottoman ones which are not exposed after i ask for it in written form and explain purposes. Hope you will have a luck soon.
Best regards,
Best regards,
Some museums have many more rules than others. Nothing justifies their existence, for them, better than PAPERWORK. So speak to a university professor. Convince him that you are studying the history of archery, which was everywhere at all times before the present, and request a letter from him stating that. Keep copies. Send a copy to the museum requesting a convenient time to look at their collection, about a month from that time.
You will want pictures. Promise not to publish them only if they request. Bring tape measure, paper and pencil to make drawings.
A bowyer cannot rely on others to collect wood for them. How could they?
The fact that people do not take home made archery equipment seriously is a kind of security.
If you are doing something that no one else is doing then you are a leader!
You will want pictures. Promise not to publish them only if they request. Bring tape measure, paper and pencil to make drawings.
A bowyer cannot rely on others to collect wood for them. How could they?
The fact that people do not take home made archery equipment seriously is a kind of security.
If you are doing something that no one else is doing then you are a leader!
Здравейте Зоран.
I am from Bulgaria. we have the same problems with the materials for bowmaking as yours. horn received from Martin, but much cheaper than the price you posted. biggest problem is the tree. I'm buying but I'm not happy now and go into the woods and looking for myself. Truth is that a trader of wood can not understand or wants to understand the requirements of bowmaker. I am a supporter of Dusan and his constant criticism not to make any compromises with the materials. We wish success!
I am from Bulgaria. we have the same problems with the materials for bowmaking as yours. horn received from Martin, but much cheaper than the price you posted. biggest problem is the tree. I'm buying but I'm not happy now and go into the woods and looking for myself. Truth is that a trader of wood can not understand or wants to understand the requirements of bowmaker. I am a supporter of Dusan and his constant criticism not to make any compromises with the materials. We wish success!
Здравейте братко,
I have read a lot of your posts, and glad that you are here again.
On price of horn, it is not problem with horn supplier , they are quite correct about shipping cost and total price, but problem is with custom duty here, perhaps you in Bulgaria don't have this problem because you are already in EU.
On wood, i am in agreement with you and Dusan. So, best choice is to cut the wood by yourself. Hope to meet you and have cooperation 'cause i am nearby. I will send you something very interesting for you through pm.
Да ли ћеш радити реконструкције бугарских лукова на основу археолошких налаза?
Велики поздрав
I have read a lot of your posts, and glad that you are here again.
On price of horn, it is not problem with horn supplier , they are quite correct about shipping cost and total price, but problem is with custom duty here, perhaps you in Bulgaria don't have this problem because you are already in EU.
On wood, i am in agreement with you and Dusan. So, best choice is to cut the wood by yourself. Hope to meet you and have cooperation 'cause i am nearby. I will send you something very interesting for you through pm.
Да ли ћеш радити реконструкције бугарских лукова на основу археолошких налаза?
Велики поздрав
Zoran,
I checked some hornstrips from www.pfeilschaft.de
though its maybe not perfect measurements (4-5mm thick, length 35-45cm, flat) the horn is nicely elastic + not to expensive (20-25 Euro per strip)
I use it for two bows but dont know if it will work (yet).
"da real" horn preparation from (from Highland horn) takes too much time for me :-( sheep horn prep must be even more laborous..
Think they dont deliver to Serbia but if you like I order+send you some.
Cheeeers
I checked some hornstrips from www.pfeilschaft.de
though its maybe not perfect measurements (4-5mm thick, length 35-45cm, flat) the horn is nicely elastic + not to expensive (20-25 Euro per strip)
I use it for two bows but dont know if it will work (yet).
"da real" horn preparation from (from Highland horn) takes too much time for me :-( sheep horn prep must be even more laborous..
Think they dont deliver to Serbia but if you like I order+send you some.
Cheeeers
Uli, thank you very much.Uli wrote:
Zoran,
I checked some hornstrips from www.pfeilschaft.de
though its maybe not perfect measurements (4-5mm thick, length 35-45cm, flat) the horn is nicely elastic + not to expensive (20-25 Euro per strip)
I use it for two bows but dont know if it will work (yet).
"da real" horn preparation from (from Highland horn) takes too much time for me :-( sheep horn prep must be even more laborous..
Think they dont deliver to Serbia but if you like I order+send you some.
Cheeeers
I ordered hornstrips from dick.biz since it seem to be difficult from Martin, and i don't think one of the strips is so good for bow (will post pics soon). As i wrote it is not problem with company, it is problem here. Look, in declaration it is clear written ''hornstrips for bowyers'' but in report from custom-house they described it as ''decorative horn'' :shock: and they estimated it at 35EUR. It is not first time. I see, it is different in Bulgaria as PAZUZU wrote.
Thing that i need ram's horn is 'cause i want exact replicas of serbian medieval bows and we didn't breed buffalos in middle age;-)))).
Thank you for your offer, i will inform you if i need buffalo horn again.If you need some article on traditional archery just drop me mail and i will send it to you.
Greetings and best regards
p.s. i visited pfeilschaft site and since i speak dutch (there's a lot of words similar with german and english) pretty well i understood that they offer horn plates as dick.biz does, don't know from whom they obtain it. Also breite:circa 4cm okay, dicke:circa 3mm, i don't think it is good for stronger bow though they says it has super quality.
I know that Manouchehr Khorasani, the author of Arms and Armor from Iran, did get into see the bows in the Military Museum. Some of them dated back to the early Safavid period.
In Turkish Archery and the Composite Bow, there is a drawing from Balfour of a Persian bow dissected. The belly is constructed of parallel strips of horn rather than one large piece for each limb. This might make it easier to build up a bow from thin strips of goat or other horn. The bow was completely covered by sinew which also formed a thin layer over the belly. The bending limbs were broad and stable, which might have also been a factor in the use of strips of horn. I see it as a method of using up off-cuts.
In Turkish Archery and the Composite Bow, there is a drawing from Balfour of a Persian bow dissected. The belly is constructed of parallel strips of horn rather than one large piece for each limb. This might make it easier to build up a bow from thin strips of goat or other horn. The bow was completely covered by sinew which also formed a thin layer over the belly. The bending limbs were broad and stable, which might have also been a factor in the use of strips of horn. I see it as a method of using up off-cuts.
Bede Thanks for mentioning Mr Moshtagh.as you mention Turkish Archery and the Composite Bow is there any chapter on persian archery?
Persian bows are only mentioned in passing. I am reading through Hein's translation of Kani at the moment and I will see if there was more information. Yucel in his book on Turkish archery also has some information on Persian bows as well (in Turkish).
McEwen translated the section on archery in the Adab al-Harb in a 12th century Persian book from India. It discusses bows by region but is quite brief. There is more on North-eastern Iranian bows than on the mainstream because of their proximity to India.
There is also some nineteenth century European observations in Moser's catalogue of his collection, but it is fairly basic.
McEwen is currently translating a section of the Hidayat ar-Rami, which is a Persian manuscript from India in the early 1500s. While there is much that is directly from Persian practice, the book is enriched with much local Indian information. McEwen told me that the problem is in the vocabulary. There was a large number of specialist terms used for materials, particularly woods, that have not made it into dictionaries. It is quite frustrating for a translator. To really understand some of these texts you need to know Persian, Turkish and Arabic. A talent for crossword puzzles would not go astray either.
McEwen translated the section on archery in the Adab al-Harb in a 12th century Persian book from India. It discusses bows by region but is quite brief. There is more on North-eastern Iranian bows than on the mainstream because of their proximity to India.
There is also some nineteenth century European observations in Moser's catalogue of his collection, but it is fairly basic.
McEwen is currently translating a section of the Hidayat ar-Rami, which is a Persian manuscript from India in the early 1500s. While there is much that is directly from Persian practice, the book is enriched with much local Indian information. McEwen told me that the problem is in the vocabulary. There was a large number of specialist terms used for materials, particularly woods, that have not made it into dictionaries. It is quite frustrating for a translator. To really understand some of these texts you need to know Persian, Turkish and Arabic. A talent for crossword puzzles would not go astray either.