Suitable core woods?
I had a disaster a few days ago when I tried to bend the cores for my first hornbow! I only had acess to kiln dried maple so dispite the recommendations to use green wood in Adam's book I deiced to give what I had to hand a go. Anyway after soaking in water for 2 weeks and steam for an hour when I bent them very large splinters rose. Needless to say they are pretty much junk now.
So I have been looking for maple in all the places I know for the past few days and have drawn a blank only finding small twisted saplings or large trees without good enough straight sections.
I am hoping that somebody could recommend some other suitable species that are native to England (northern) that would be suitable for core wood. There is quite a lot of elm growing that I can cut anytime and have been thinking about using it. I understand that Adam says it's hard to groove well but I think I could work around that?
So I have been looking for maple in all the places I know for the past few days and have drawn a blank only finding small twisted saplings or large trees without good enough straight sections.
I am hoping that somebody could recommend some other suitable species that are native to England (northern) that would be suitable for core wood. There is quite a lot of elm growing that I can cut anytime and have been thinking about using it. I understand that Adam says it's hard to groove well but I think I could work around that?
No mountain-, black- or hard- maple in northern England?
They are quite different from the other maple species. They are open porous woods, no better woods for to be glued. Their steam- bending capablities are outstanding. No problem to go for very sharp recurves.
But take care of the growing, any twisting and it will break. Choose very straight staves of younger trees.
Most bowyers don?t know that these maples will do excellent and very fast selfbows(long flat design) when heat- treating the belly.
Michael
They are quite different from the other maple species. They are open porous woods, no better woods for to be glued. Their steam- bending capablities are outstanding. No problem to go for very sharp recurves.
But take care of the growing, any twisting and it will break. Choose very straight staves of younger trees.
Most bowyers don?t know that these maples will do excellent and very fast selfbows(long flat design) when heat- treating the belly.
Michael
If you cannot get the woods recommended by Adam in his book, then you must try harder. This is better than wasting many hours on a bow that is perhaps destined to fail. I suggest you look for bow makers in your area and talk to them. They should be able to provide you with top quality. A stave of maple is not very expensive and you can probably get core wood for two bows out of a good one (straight growth, no knots).
Daniel
Daniel
What about Sycamore Maple or Sycamore as it's called there in England... Acer pseudoplatanus? Grows all over the north of England and Scotland (the Scots call it Plane tree). I believe it would be classified as a "hard" maple.
Thanks a lot for the advice.
I've been out looking again today and it seems like the only maple growing around here is either very young or old and with no useable sections? However I found this tree which appears to be acer pseudoplatanus (see photos). Perfectly straight and knot free.
It seems like the all bowyers that I know around here only make laminated longbows or yew longbows? So I don't know anybody to ask for a stave of maple.
Adam says that yew is suitable but isn't as receptive to glue. I know where a lot of yew grows but wasn't sure how to get around the gluing problems? Any ideas anyone? Also it's pretty rare to find a decent sized piece of yew without any knots at all, so is it possible to get away with small knots in the non bending sections of limbs?
I guess I'll keep looking for maple in the meantime anyway!
I've been out looking again today and it seems like the only maple growing around here is either very young or old and with no useable sections? However I found this tree which appears to be acer pseudoplatanus (see photos). Perfectly straight and knot free.
It seems like the all bowyers that I know around here only make laminated longbows or yew longbows? So I don't know anybody to ask for a stave of maple.
Adam says that yew is suitable but isn't as receptive to glue. I know where a lot of yew grows but wasn't sure how to get around the gluing problems? Any ideas anyone? Also it's pretty rare to find a decent sized piece of yew without any knots at all, so is it possible to get away with small knots in the non bending sections of limbs?
I guess I'll keep looking for maple in the meantime anyway!
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Ayup - that would be good old Acer pseudoplatanus alright. So whip out your trusty saw and cut down that "perfectly straight and knot free" tree and split yourself a stave.
As a friend who worked at a missile site used to say "it ain't Rocket Surgery"!"
As a friend who worked at a missile site used to say "it ain't Rocket Surgery"!"
Kiln dry maple is not so bad because it is full died wood. I used K. dry wood in my first bows. I see it is not tedence the twist but thickness should be under 4,5 mm, I suggest 3,5-4 mm for Turkish bow. İf the bow is long, thicness can be over 4mm. Form is very important.
Green wood is the best , sugar maple, a. tataricum, a.pseudoplanatus and acer campastre is good. Acer campestre is original Turkish bow wood. Green wood must wait in the form min. a year. Kiln dry wood do not need long waiting time in the form.
Cem
Green wood is the best , sugar maple, a. tataricum, a.pseudoplanatus and acer campastre is good. Acer campestre is original Turkish bow wood. Green wood must wait in the form min. a year. Kiln dry wood do not need long waiting time in the form.
Cem
Cem,
I always thought tatar maple to be the traditional turkish bow-wood.
so who used the tatar maple ?
Can you tell me your source of information ?
why did they use the field maple (isnt that usually less straight in growth than pseudoplatanus ?)
Here in Germany I found a lot of a.pseudoplatanus and campestre, but tatar I found only one in a park.
I always thought tatar maple to be the traditional turkish bow-wood.
so who used the tatar maple ?
Can you tell me your source of information ?
why did they use the field maple (isnt that usually less straight in growth than pseudoplatanus ?)
Here in Germany I found a lot of a.pseudoplatanus and campestre, but tatar I found only one in a park.
Cem
i also thought that acer tataricum traditionally wood for ottoman bow.
Uli
i have experience with old acer campestre, and young acer tataricum. tataricum but is good for steam bending to me. I also find difficultly clean wood. tataricum have many, many knots.
i also thought that acer tataricum traditionally wood for ottoman bow.
Uli
i have experience with old acer campestre, and young acer tataricum. tataricum but is good for steam bending to me. I also find difficultly clean wood. tataricum have many, many knots.
Pazuzu,Uli,
Im sure about acer campestre because I had a small piece of original wood from an old bow and one of my friends tested it for me in University. I read old Turkish bowyers used the A. Tataricum in Military museum text.
I used the tataricum , it is very hard to find one that is good enough.( grain and knot) Tataricum is usually a very small tree. Campastre is very good too but I believe climate, shadow and soil are very important for good maple.
Mike:
Yew is not a very good choice for composites, sapwood is too soft ,heartwood has too much resin andhas a tedency to crack.
Cem
Im sure about acer campestre because I had a small piece of original wood from an old bow and one of my friends tested it for me in University. I read old Turkish bowyers used the A. Tataricum in Military museum text.
I used the tataricum , it is very hard to find one that is good enough.( grain and knot) Tataricum is usually a very small tree. Campastre is very good too but I believe climate, shadow and soil are very important for good maple.
Mike:
Yew is not a very good choice for composites, sapwood is too soft ,heartwood has too much resin andhas a tedency to crack.
Cem
Dont wory Mike, here was vith great succes presented Turkish"like" bows from Ash, Elm , Hickory, bamboo... what you want is ucefull :lol:
Now seriouz- if it is your first composite, kiln dreyed good quality maple vith strait grain is best choise for you. And when your first bow was dreyed you can walking in forests and searching young tree...
Now seriouz- if it is your first composite, kiln dreyed good quality maple vith strait grain is best choise for you. And when your first bow was dreyed you can walking in forests and searching young tree...
I'm no expert, but it is fairly easy to buy hard maple in uk with straight grain. It will be kiln dried but if you steam or boil it well it will be no problem to bend nicely. I think yours was either too thick or not steamed for long enough. Acer campestre grows all over the south of england in the hedges , take a trip maybe? Get a good tree book, maybe you can find it up there too.
You need a good tree book.
You need a good tree book.
The search goes on for acer campestre! However I have cut a perfect piece of elm and reduced it down to core dimensions just to get some practise in. I will bend it in a few days (soaking in water at the moment).
I have more kiln dried maple ready to be bent and will give it another try tomorrow. The first cores I tried to bend were 17mm thick and were soaked in water for two weeks then steamed for an hour.
This time I think I will reduce them to 13mm thick and maybe steam them for a little longer just to be on the safe side.
Next weekend I am going down to Herefordshire so I may check out some hedgerows!
Thanks for all the help
I have more kiln dried maple ready to be bent and will give it another try tomorrow. The first cores I tried to bend were 17mm thick and were soaked in water for two weeks then steamed for an hour.
This time I think I will reduce them to 13mm thick and maybe steam them for a little longer just to be on the safe side.
Next weekend I am going down to Herefordshire so I may check out some hedgerows!
Thanks for all the help
acer campestre is called field maple I believe,it grows mostly in the hedgrows, is quite common , the leaves look basicaly like sycamore but much smaller and the tree doesnt grow too big, maybe 20-25 feet,I'm pretty sure you'll find it in herefordshire. and that was a thick piece of wood to only steam one hour not suprising it broke!!
Common hazel (Corylus avellana) is bending similarily to mapple when boiled. It grows as coppice, so it is easy to get meter long entirely straight 7-10 thick pieces, unlike with mapple.
It is diffuse porous as mapple and similar density. It is however more tension strong than mapple.
It is prone to split and check when initially dried, but does not seem to be when wet and dried again.
I have not tried using green wood, but would discourage due to checking and splitting problem.
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NOTE: Witch hazel is not related tree, but filbert is.
It is diffuse porous as mapple and similar density. It is however more tension strong than mapple.
It is prone to split and check when initially dried, but does not seem to be when wet and dried again.
I have not tried using green wood, but would discourage due to checking and splitting problem.
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![[external image]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Corylus_avellana.jpg/220px-Corylus_avellana.jpg){kind=link}
NOTE: Witch hazel is not related tree, but filbert is.
I cannot confirm this, on the contrary. In a german forum, there is a sapling bow making contest, where a bow should be built within two months after cutting (in January). Several people have successfully quickly dried hazel for this, it even worked in a single week without problems.jkekoni wrote:
It is prone to split and check when initially dried, but does not seem to be when wet and dried again.
I was wondering about its use as core, but I did not have to time to try it yet. I still got enough maple. Have you done it?
Daniel
I have bent core pieces, but I have not made any hornbow yet. (It was kind of implied in the above message.)
Hazel dries quite quickly, but the problem is that it also checks and splits quite quickly too.
The problems do not however reappear after immersion and boiling of prior air dried wood.
Hazel dries quite quickly, but the problem is that it also checks and splits quite quickly too.
The problems do not however reappear after immersion and boiling of prior air dried wood.
If you like troubles and lost couple of work, than use Hazel... :roll:
Bad experiences on hazel cores, or just bad drying experiences?
You mind sharing?
You mind sharing?