2010 Flight Shooting Competition on Bonneville Flats in Utah
I have just returned from the Flight Competition in the USA. I saw some very interesting bows.
The most world records were taken by the English team of Janice and Michael Willrich. It had been six years since their previous visit to the competition, which had been notable for the world records they set then.
In the primitive section, the bows were very interesting indeed. Jaap Koppedrayer had built a bow on the same cross sectional design as the Scythian/Saka bows from Xinjiang. It was made with less setback in the grip which reduced the stress in the limbs by flattening the curves. He used a black buffalo horn for the internal centre core lamination and a transparent horn for the belly laminations It looked like one of the bows on the tiles at Susa with the addition of a handle setback. Jaap had also built an angular composite bow that was extremely short and strong. He intends to replace its wooden belly with a horn one. The wood was chrysalling and he was worried about how long it would survive.
Alan Case had used a bow of the most beautiful form which shot well too. While it had string bridges and siyahs, it looked like something out of a science fiction movie. The bowyer was David Brunetta. To lighten the siyahs, he had drilled transverse holes like an aircraft strut. (I made a mistake when I first posted this, thinking that Alan had made the bow, but he has since given me the details of its construction.)
Some of the bows were made very solidly to get the most performance out of the primitive designs. In one case, a slight overdraw resulted in the lip of the string notch shearing off, proving that even linen strings can cause damage to the tips of highly stressed bows.
I tested my silk string made on the standard Turkish principle. It survived the involuntary unstringing of the bow and other abuse. I had made some arrows to a design that was counter to the accepted wisdom for broad head arrows' points of balance. By moving the point of balance closer to the centre of the arrow, I made longer shots. Because of the rule in Primitive Broad Head Flight, The arrows must have a minimum weight of 500 grains and the feathers have to be equivalent in dimensions to three four-inch long half-inch high feathers of straight or parabolic in shape. The rules also mandate the minimum size of the broad head and that it has be mounted horizontally to prevent overdrawing. The strong gusty winds should have been detrimental for broad heads, but everyone shot well. I think that the horizontal position of the blades in two bladed broad heads reduced the affect of cross winds. For flight shooting, straight fletching is also a good idea to minimise drag and this may have contributed lower rates of rotation to the arrows.
The most world records were taken by the English team of Janice and Michael Willrich. It had been six years since their previous visit to the competition, which had been notable for the world records they set then.
In the primitive section, the bows were very interesting indeed. Jaap Koppedrayer had built a bow on the same cross sectional design as the Scythian/Saka bows from Xinjiang. It was made with less setback in the grip which reduced the stress in the limbs by flattening the curves. He used a black buffalo horn for the internal centre core lamination and a transparent horn for the belly laminations It looked like one of the bows on the tiles at Susa with the addition of a handle setback. Jaap had also built an angular composite bow that was extremely short and strong. He intends to replace its wooden belly with a horn one. The wood was chrysalling and he was worried about how long it would survive.
Alan Case had used a bow of the most beautiful form which shot well too. While it had string bridges and siyahs, it looked like something out of a science fiction movie. The bowyer was David Brunetta. To lighten the siyahs, he had drilled transverse holes like an aircraft strut. (I made a mistake when I first posted this, thinking that Alan had made the bow, but he has since given me the details of its construction.)
Some of the bows were made very solidly to get the most performance out of the primitive designs. In one case, a slight overdraw resulted in the lip of the string notch shearing off, proving that even linen strings can cause damage to the tips of highly stressed bows.
I tested my silk string made on the standard Turkish principle. It survived the involuntary unstringing of the bow and other abuse. I had made some arrows to a design that was counter to the accepted wisdom for broad head arrows' points of balance. By moving the point of balance closer to the centre of the arrow, I made longer shots. Because of the rule in Primitive Broad Head Flight, The arrows must have a minimum weight of 500 grains and the feathers have to be equivalent in dimensions to three four-inch long half-inch high feathers of straight or parabolic in shape. The rules also mandate the minimum size of the broad head and that it has be mounted horizontally to prevent overdrawing. The strong gusty winds should have been detrimental for broad heads, but everyone shot well. I think that the horizontal position of the blades in two bladed broad heads reduced the affect of cross winds. For flight shooting, straight fletching is also a good idea to minimise drag and this may have contributed lower rates of rotation to the arrows.
Bede, thanks for the update. Now I understand why in the picture you're using an arrow clearly longer than your draw length, it must be to reach the minimum 500g weight plus to get the right spine. Though I can't see the broadhead in that picture.
I know hornbows with natural strings usually are on the range of 300yds (at least that's around the record and close to my tests with a dacron string), I imagine a 500g broadhead arrow must reach considerable less.
I know hornbows with natural strings usually are on the range of 300yds (at least that's around the record and close to my tests with a dacron string), I imagine a 500g broadhead arrow must reach considerable less.
Here is more about the bow.
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/20245
I will post some pictures soon. I am moving them between computers. The picture in the link is of James Sanchez shooting with a full length flight arrow. I believe the picture was taken before he reached full draw.
I had problems getting some of my arrows up to 500 grains at 28 inches without going to very heavy broad heads. I bought the broad heads in the USA to avoid having to carry them through Customs and assembled the arrows at the home of a friend. When put together some arrows weighed less than I wanted and Alan Case gave me some fine copper wire to wrap around them to increase the weight. This was partially successful but did change the point of balance. Also the copper wire was abrasive on my hand at full draw and may have put off my release. The modified arrows all performed marginally poorer than the full weight arrows.
The longest shot I made with the broad heads was 237 yards 1 foot and this was with a 539 grain arrow with a Magnus II two blade broad head. This arrow was already heavy enough when I assembled it.
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/20245
I will post some pictures soon. I am moving them between computers. The picture in the link is of James Sanchez shooting with a full length flight arrow. I believe the picture was taken before he reached full draw.
I had problems getting some of my arrows up to 500 grains at 28 inches without going to very heavy broad heads. I bought the broad heads in the USA to avoid having to carry them through Customs and assembled the arrows at the home of a friend. When put together some arrows weighed less than I wanted and Alan Case gave me some fine copper wire to wrap around them to increase the weight. This was partially successful but did change the point of balance. Also the copper wire was abrasive on my hand at full draw and may have put off my release. The modified arrows all performed marginally poorer than the full weight arrows.
The longest shot I made with the broad heads was 237 yards 1 foot and this was with a 539 grain arrow with a Magnus II two blade broad head. This arrow was already heavy enough when I assembled it.
I would really like to know the effect of drying out on bows. How much does it affect draw weight, cast and etc? How long do the bows spend in this dry condition etc.
Thanks Bede for sharing this.
The bow made by David Brunetta was shot by Alan Case and James Sanchez, about 57lbs, 347yards, that?s the new world record in the Primitive Composite Class. The bow is made of bamboo and ipe, as Bede has mentioned above its a real science fiction design. That?s a 2010 bow- beauty. Very wise and highly clever designed. The arrows are made by Alan Case.
A deflexed handle- section, a bit of reflex at the mid- limbs, and slightly small siyahs. I guess this somehow modified holmegaard/mollegabet/asian- design(a global design) is hard to outperform.
Bede, could you please post the results of the different classes?
I hope to participate next year or in 2012 with a selfbow limited to 50lbs and a horn- hybrid.
Look at the pics(links above), a real bizarre and weird scenario.
Michael
The bow made by David Brunetta was shot by Alan Case and James Sanchez, about 57lbs, 347yards, that?s the new world record in the Primitive Composite Class. The bow is made of bamboo and ipe, as Bede has mentioned above its a real science fiction design. That?s a 2010 bow- beauty. Very wise and highly clever designed. The arrows are made by Alan Case.
A deflexed handle- section, a bit of reflex at the mid- limbs, and slightly small siyahs. I guess this somehow modified holmegaard/mollegabet/asian- design(a global design) is hard to outperform.
Bede, could you please post the results of the different classes?
I hope to participate next year or in 2012 with a selfbow limited to 50lbs and a horn- hybrid.
Look at the pics(links above), a real bizarre and weird scenario.
Michael
I will do my best to get the results up here as soon as they become available. Next year we hope to be computerised and have the result up in a few days. There is a fair amount of checking that goes into presenting the results to make sure the rules were followed and the shots were correctly recorded.
Jack, I have some information on the variations caused by the low humidity environment.
Jack, I have some information on the variations caused by the low humidity environment.
- Bows - there have been some comments about the increased fragility of self bows, but I didn't see any sure evidence. Individual bows have broken but usually it seems to be because of unseen faults in the wood or because the bows were operating too close to their maximum draw length. Composite bows behave normally. The two bows I regularly take do not seem to be heavier though I seem to be weaker. Since the bows are measured on the spot variations in draw weight would be apparent.
Strings - these are much more affected by the climate. Linen strings in particular have to be overbuilt or frequently wetted down otherwise they can snap. Jaap and I both had problems last year with strings that worked in Georgia (90% humidity) but failed in Utah (16% humidity). this year I made a silk string and it performed well. Last year a made a gut string which seemed to be unaffected by the humidity in Georgia or the lack of it in Utah. Perhaps this was because it was strongly stretched during manufacture.
Arrows - I did have problems with fletchings attached with liquid hide glue last year. Jaap advised me that longer curing would fix the problem and I am sure he is right with regular hide glue. I will test this idea this Australian summer. I did not see anyone have problems with unusual arrrow breakage. People were very open about what was going wrong so we had a good idea about what was happening.
Here is a before and after picture of Jaap's bow made internally as a Scythian bow being shot by Alan Case. Unfortunately, they always come up in reverse of the order I put them in.
As I wrote earlier, this bow has the wood/horn/wood construction of the cores of the Xinjiang Scythian style bows. The set back in the handle has been reduced and the curves are not as prominent as the originals. However, it is well with in the family of bows illustrated in Greek and Scythian art. The lesser stresses allowed a long draw and were advantageous in a flight bow.
As I wrote earlier, this bow has the wood/horn/wood construction of the cores of the Xinjiang Scythian style bows. The set back in the handle has been reduced and the curves are not as prominent as the originals. However, it is well with in the family of bows illustrated in Greek and Scythian art. The lesser stresses allowed a long draw and were advantageous in a flight bow.
Bede; How long had you been in the desert before the competition? Your composites did not increase in draw weight?
According to my experience, my hornbow feels heavier in winter (about 5 pounds) and lighter in summer. The humidity doesn't change so much along the year, I can't tell about that.
It's a Korean custom to keep their hornbows in an electric blanket for 2-3 hours before bracing, that's for drying the bow. Turks conditioned their bows too.
It's a Korean custom to keep their hornbows in an electric blanket for 2-3 hours before bracing, that's for drying the bow. Turks conditioned their bows too.
Jack,
We had problems weighing the composites because of the setback handles and the weighing machine. The little brown leather covered bow I used tried to turn itself inside out when I put it on the machine. Jaap had similar problems with one bow. My comments are based on previous events and subjective feel.
We had only been there 24 hours before shooting. I don't think the leather covered composites dried out very much in the time. It was not as dry as last year and I did not have a humidity gauge with me this time to get precise measurements.
My bow was rated by Adam at 60 lb pull when he made it. The last time I had an accurate reading, it was 55 lbs after 30 minutes of being braced. The temperature in the shade that time was about 80 degrees F.
There is definitely an effect from both temperature and humidity, but it seemed less than I had anticipated. I am building a sling to hold the grip of the bow when I weigh it to prevent twisting. I should have better information when it is complete. Summer in Sydney is closer to the Georgia conditions than the Utah ones. The temperature is high and so is the humidity.
I wonder if there is an effect from being transported in the hold of an aircraft. It is a 13 hour flight from Sydney to San Francisco and another few hours to Seattle where I was staying.
We had problems weighing the composites because of the setback handles and the weighing machine. The little brown leather covered bow I used tried to turn itself inside out when I put it on the machine. Jaap had similar problems with one bow. My comments are based on previous events and subjective feel.
We had only been there 24 hours before shooting. I don't think the leather covered composites dried out very much in the time. It was not as dry as last year and I did not have a humidity gauge with me this time to get precise measurements.
My bow was rated by Adam at 60 lb pull when he made it. The last time I had an accurate reading, it was 55 lbs after 30 minutes of being braced. The temperature in the shade that time was about 80 degrees F.
There is definitely an effect from both temperature and humidity, but it seemed less than I had anticipated. I am building a sling to hold the grip of the bow when I weigh it to prevent twisting. I should have better information when it is complete. Summer in Sydney is closer to the Georgia conditions than the Utah ones. The temperature is high and so is the humidity.
I wonder if there is an effect from being transported in the hold of an aircraft. It is a 13 hour flight from Sydney to San Francisco and another few hours to Seattle where I was staying.