greetings...and my thumb release techniques

Did you check out my videos on YouTube? ("Atarn presents").

Some suggestions: if you are beginner, you may be too tense with your grip, imparting a jerk or shock that you would not with the technique you are used to.

Or, your thumbring is too bulky.

Or, your arrows grip too tightly on the string.

In any case, follow the YouTube video instruction and take it in tiny steps till you feel comfortable with it.

Hi Stephen. Yes I saw your video on youtube. I am trying to imitate your draw and release right now.
here is a link to a video of how I shot :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SbuUfHCUfU

I own a Kassai Bow as well, but a different model. (Deer Hun style asymmetrical) and I use 2 sets of arrows for this bow. 33" cedar arrows or 37.4" bamboo arrows. (depending on my mood) I draw using the thumb draw, and shoot it of my right thumb (I've never done archery any other way) and I draw the bow to 35" when I use the bamboo arrows, and the full 33" of the cedar arrows when I use them (I feel the tip of the point) and pass my ear. I shoot instinctively when using the Kassai "Deer" bow.

I don't bring the bow overheard when using this bow, I do a pre-draw with the arrow pointing downwards, and then level it up horizontal for a full draw. I then draw to a particular length, feel the shaft somewhere on my cheekbone, make sure my elbow of my draw hand is never above shoulder height (horizontal or slightly below shoulder level never higher) look at the target and release. I don't really consciously think about all these points now or break up the movements.

You mentioned when you do the finger draw on both sides of the bow, your arrow flight is normal, and tested using different draw lengths and there's no problem. I took a look at the video clip you posted. I notice you don't pull the full length of your 32" arrows. The other thing I noticed, is your hand movement during release is different from how I do it.

Anyway, when I first started out I remember my arrows did fish-tail (I've only did archery using the thumb draw and shooting off my thumb). These are my own personal critique on my own technique which I've recorded for myself. I'm not sure if they will work for you or find them useful.

For the purpose of the line diagrams I put on a thumb ring to create the photos. I don't usually use this hard thumb ring. I usually just use a soft leather thumb ring. As for fish-tailing, I remember, I eventually found out it was due to my thumb "plucking" the string during release, and I only figure this out when I stop using thumb rings, and notice how the string would "graze" or bump strongly on my thumb pad, due to the way I release. Do you feel the string hitting your thumb pad during release when you remove your thumb ring? If your thumb clearance is done well, you won't feel the string hit the thumb pad.

Since, I can't bend my right thumb anymore on its own due to a previous injury. My thumb draw, in essence is not a true thumb draw, because there's no pressure exerted by my thumb and I just use my index finger to solely pull back via the lock over the thumb.

Why do I mention this? after my injury, my fish-tailing did came back and I had to improvise to get rid of it, and that lead to my 2nd observation of possible fish-tailing with the thumb draw, as listed in the diagram. If your thumb is not spread wide enough or fast enough, you will pluck the string, I can't spread out my right thumb wide or fast enough now, so the string does hit my thumb pad on release, I counter this by not releasing directly straight backwards now, but diagonal backwards.

I'm sure each person will have their own way to prevent plucking of the string with the thumb release. While I'm not sure if the solutions I listed are the most efficient, the other thing you don't want to do is to "roll" the string on your thumb pad during release. Unless you keep hitting your arrows on the the far right of the target, you can kind of, either 1. Use your index finger to control the pressure to push the arrow leftwards or 2. Use your thumb pad to "roll" the string outwards (essentially plucking) to push the arrow leftwards. Bad solution/Good solution, I don't know, but I know it works for me. (i.e it gets the job done)

The other thing about the thumb draw/release. Your index finger can hit the string the string if not done properly. So you have to be careful of that. I notice you are using a Y glove on your bowhand. Are you getting vane/feather cuts?

[external image]

thanks for the reply, J-boon. yeah I could draw the arrow back furture but when I am looking at the shaft as I draw I always think its at the shafts end when its not :\. Also if I draw back too far I get freaked out I might break the bow :P

saw your video, and spotted these problems:

1. Need to draw longer, with proper joint alignment. If those arrows are 32'', you are drawing like 27''. Raven I is 32'' max, so no worry.

2. When you draw, make sure your draw hand and bow hand arrive at the level full-draw position at the same time, with a constant speed, and confident manner.

3. Release should be done confidently, after you draw to your full-draw.

So your first two releases are bad, cause you drew to a length, and right before the release, you drew the string a little back, which is probably due to you locked your thumb to tight. Third release is better.

maaguaa wrote:

thanks for the reply, J-boon. yeah I could draw the arrow back furture but when I am looking at the shaft as I draw I always think its at the shafts end when its not :\. Also if I draw back too far I get freaked out I might break the bow :P

The Kassai "Deer" max draw length is 33" (manufacturer claim) and I pull mine to 35". Kassai Bows are made with modern materials and are durable. (not traditional) so I tend to "abuse" it I guess. The thing is I don't feel any stacking way pass its recommended length, so I go for it.

In your case, your arrows are 32" and the Kassai Raven max drawlength is 32". You won't pull longer than 32" because the length of your arrow is the limiting factor. Even though your arrows are 32" there will be a few centimeters of the arrow you won't pull due to safety reasons, so I think you don't need to worry too much, about breaking your bow.

If you look at the shaft to see how much you have drawn, because of Parallax error (I don't even know if this is the correct term to use for this phenomenon), your eye will often not perceive the correct length.

Another example, is sometimes the shaft might look "horizontal" to you during full draw, when you look down at the shaft but when you look at a mirror, it might appear to be not level but tipping downwards (or upwards). You just have to know how your eyes look at things during archery (length of arrow drawn, how horizontal, e.t.c ) from your perspective. Its mainly trial and error, but there are some ways to speed things up a little.

1. You can ask someone to tell you or look at a mirror, if you have drawn the right length.

2. You can feel the point on your arrow to estimate full draw, since the length of arrow is known. Here I will use a field point to illustrate what I'm talking about. I took a look at your other Youtube videos and saw you use field points on your wooden arrows. So, I thought this might help you.

I personally would use troubleshoot solution 2, because until your pull using the thumb draw becomes constant due to muscle memory, its easier to forget "how much so and so said to get the correct draw length". Words can be kind of intangible at times when you are trying a real world application. I prefer to "feel" a concrete point and if for whatever reason, I fail to draw to the right length, at least there is a "fallback" check on the list, to know if I have pulled enough or not enough.

If you have been using finger release for a long time, I'm guessing it will take a while before your muscle memory ticks over. Here, is one of the tricks I figure out myself during my earlier days in archery. Hope you find it useful somewhat. Good luck and practice hard.

[external image]

I have examined some high speed photographs of the bow string escaping the thumb as the string is released. As soon as the index finger starts to move off the thumb, the thumb starts to pivot at its base and the string slides along the lip of the ring. This happens when you have the thumb pressed tightly against the middle of the middle finger. Perhaps the thumb under the pressure of the string and the sudden release of the pressure of the string against the middle finger causes the thumb to spring open. Since the index finger is not tight in the standard thumb draw, the most important thing it can do is get out of the way quickly.

I think that the final open position of the hand and any follow though are designed to make sure the initial conditions are correctly achieved. This is probably why there is such a variety of final positions in the different traditions.

Fishtailing can be caused by several issues. Too much pressure on the side of the nock by the index finger can cause the arrow to travel erratically. Hooking the thumb too far around the string can also introduce problems on release as the string moves away from its normal path to get around the tip of the thumb. Too loose a grip on the bow can affect these other problems.

I made some arrows last week with 80 mm by 5 mm fletching. The extremely low feather height meant that the fletching had only a small effect on the flight of the arrow. However, it was a good way to check technique since my normal arrows never fishtail. With some concentration on my drawing hand I was able to correct the occasional fishtailing that I could see. Observers did not notice it since with the small fletching and barrelling, the arrows travelled very fast.

Hello Maaguaa,
After watching your video it seems to me that you are trying to follow Justin's and Stepehn style of shooting. It's just an observation, I cannot comment if that's good or not for you to shoot in this way, the only thing I can share is I've came to prefer more of a 'dynamic' techinque, when shooting the thumb draw, I 'open up' on the release, by bringing my shoulder blades together my bowarm jumps aside, if that's the main factor helping the arrow to clear the bow or not, I don't know, but it works for me, now maybe Justin does similar, but his movements are not exagerrated, as in my case.
An erratic arrow flight is very often caused by the simple fact of changing the shooting style, from the finger loose to thumbdraw, the problem seems to fade with time, as the individual's muscle memory naturally adjusts. Simply put, if a 'finger release' archer tries to shoot with the thumb draw, apart from drawing the string with a thumb lock, their body resopnds as if shooting the three finger way, which, from my experience, usually results in a bad shot.

About your from; your starting position looks really fine, but the way you execute the draw doesn't take the advatage of that position, you bring you drawing arm down to early, in that way you cannot use your back and shoulder muscles properly, you may try to bring both arms down more gradually, as you progress with the draw. Also, you lock your bowarm elbow, which is usually regarded as bad thing, though it seems that some thumbdraw archers prefer it that way, cannot comennt on that.

As mentioned, your drawing hand may contirbute to the problem too.

I bet the fishtiling will disappear with time, whish you'll improve soon.