Peopling of America
This is not about archery but where Native Americans came from. Some time this coming year, there will most likely be an announcement by a major archaeological group that a site has been found supporting a supposition that at least some of the earliest arrivers in the new world appear to have come from Europe.
Artifacts and a house site identical to those found in France during the Magdelenian period have been found BELOW those of a Clovis site. Already, the appearance of flint artifacts made in a Solutrean culture manner have been found in several sites, such that Dennis Stanford, head of archaeology at the Smithsonian, has suggested the likelihood of European immigrants during the Ice Age. The current find will most likely force an announcement that this is indeed fact.
None of these facts are expected to negate the belief that Asians (Siberians) also peopled the Americas from the East, but will expand that belief.
Artifacts and a house site identical to those found in France during the Magdelenian period have been found BELOW those of a Clovis site. Already, the appearance of flint artifacts made in a Solutrean culture manner have been found in several sites, such that Dennis Stanford, head of archaeology at the Smithsonian, has suggested the likelihood of European immigrants during the Ice Age. The current find will most likely force an announcement that this is indeed fact.
None of these facts are expected to negate the belief that Asians (Siberians) also peopled the Americas from the East, but will expand that belief.
amazing - and we're the first to know :D
Wow! That is really cool.
hello Jack
we know that ,since long time in france.The mitochondrial DNA studies are very interessing.
HNY
we know that ,since long time in france.The mitochondrial DNA studies are very interessing.
HNY
I'm not sure why this would be such remarkable news? I was under the impression that at least the first wave of immigrants would have been more "cave people" of Europe than necessarily Asian.
Is it that far a stretch that European reindeer hunters weren't just following the herds and ended up over here?
The question may be more how long they lasted here and how much of their DNA contributed to the make-up of more modern Native Americans.
Is it that far a stretch that European reindeer hunters weren't just following the herds and ended up over here?
The question may be more how long they lasted here and how much of their DNA contributed to the make-up of more modern Native Americans.
It can be embarrassing that what is obvious to others is not at all to Americans.
Jack, as i know, first Europeans which had a first contact with Mandan tribe noticed blue eyes in most of them. Some scientists explained it by their early contacts with Viking settlements in Markland and Vinland. It is very possible.
I m not an archeology expert but mt-DNA and archeological finds are different things - so this is indeed something new to be added to the puzzle.
:-)
:-)
Interesting thema. here is some scientig answer what i search :
About 40 000 years ago there was a slight warming of the Earth, the glaciers begin to recede and the time comes unstable, but the warmer climate. It might help to start a new stream of migration from Africa to Asia. This time it is a type of M89 derived from the M168. He gets the whole front of dominance in Asia, and extends further east, where it develops more lines M9 mutation. It is spreading further east, while the M89 remains in front of Asia and perhaps the first to penetrate into Europe. Today in the population retained only 0.2% of M89, but the female line mtDNA U5, which is associated with M89, remained in Europe throughout the 7%.
Other events outside Africa took place entirely in the direction of M89 line of successors. They almost blurring the original inhabitants of Asia, M174 and M216 types are preserved in large quantities only in the high mountains (Tibetan) or on remote islands (Ainu on Hokaido). Probably somewhere in Uzbekistan, separating from the M9 M45, M3, whose first branch penetrates Siberia to America (about 30 000 years ago). Another branch is disconnected from the M173 M45 passes before 30 000 years ago, the Kazakh steppe into Europe and erases the previous M98. The Middle East is its next successor M89 - M170.
We are in a time of about 20 000 years ago, maybe somewhere in Manchuria arises from the typical Chinese M9 mutation M214, which later completely fills the entire Southeast Asia. M9 is coming to the New Guinea and Australia. The New Guinea gives rise to a unique type M4. There is speculation that it was this migration wave brought to Australia dingo dog.
Apparently, in America at that time spread and only the M3 group, it is not like anthropologists who excavated the remains of the ancient Americans are much more morphological variation than those experienced today. It is therefore possible that penetrated to America and other groups (mainly speculation about M216, because anthropological similarities of Japanese and Ainu Kennewick mysterious remains of a man). These other groups apparently either had to die, or be exterminated without left behind a genetic link with us known Indians.
Figure 3: Estimate of the situation before 30 000 years ago. The area is color-coded according to haplotype, who dominated.
[external image]
Prior to 4000 or perhaps 5000 years ago, there is a significant migration of people LLY22 group, it had still survive somewhere between the southern Urals and the Altai mountains, is actually kind of far less successful brother of Chinese M175. Now, however, quite quickly promoted throughout Siberia (at the expense of M173 and M170 last) and before 3,500 years ago to penetrate to the north of Europe, there still talks ural languages (Sami, Finnish, Estonian, ...), which are peculiar to this ethnic . The other part penetrates later as one of the last pre-Columbian migrations to North America. They are Eskimos and Aleuts. Their language is much more influenced by indigenous sub-polar areas of eastern Siberia and North America - speakers of the language groups of Na-Dene (Type M173), and so is their relationship to language ural languages today is little pronounced.
(sources-Links : http://ycc.biosci.arizona.edu
http://ystr.org
http://www.le.ac.uk/genetics/maj4/Jobli ... Review.pdf
http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/A ... 65_p43.pdf
Another source -language :
Apaches, Navajos and other Indians speaking languages Den? groups are significantly different (genetically and linguistically) from the rest of 'native' American population. This may be because of the relatively late migration, much like the Eskimos. Other Indians of North and South America would then have a common origin - and the Apaches and Navajo Indians would in fact not at all.
And funy vikings...
[external image]
About 40 000 years ago there was a slight warming of the Earth, the glaciers begin to recede and the time comes unstable, but the warmer climate. It might help to start a new stream of migration from Africa to Asia. This time it is a type of M89 derived from the M168. He gets the whole front of dominance in Asia, and extends further east, where it develops more lines M9 mutation. It is spreading further east, while the M89 remains in front of Asia and perhaps the first to penetrate into Europe. Today in the population retained only 0.2% of M89, but the female line mtDNA U5, which is associated with M89, remained in Europe throughout the 7%.
Other events outside Africa took place entirely in the direction of M89 line of successors. They almost blurring the original inhabitants of Asia, M174 and M216 types are preserved in large quantities only in the high mountains (Tibetan) or on remote islands (Ainu on Hokaido). Probably somewhere in Uzbekistan, separating from the M9 M45, M3, whose first branch penetrates Siberia to America (about 30 000 years ago). Another branch is disconnected from the M173 M45 passes before 30 000 years ago, the Kazakh steppe into Europe and erases the previous M98. The Middle East is its next successor M89 - M170.
We are in a time of about 20 000 years ago, maybe somewhere in Manchuria arises from the typical Chinese M9 mutation M214, which later completely fills the entire Southeast Asia. M9 is coming to the New Guinea and Australia. The New Guinea gives rise to a unique type M4. There is speculation that it was this migration wave brought to Australia dingo dog.
Apparently, in America at that time spread and only the M3 group, it is not like anthropologists who excavated the remains of the ancient Americans are much more morphological variation than those experienced today. It is therefore possible that penetrated to America and other groups (mainly speculation about M216, because anthropological similarities of Japanese and Ainu Kennewick mysterious remains of a man). These other groups apparently either had to die, or be exterminated without left behind a genetic link with us known Indians.
Figure 3: Estimate of the situation before 30 000 years ago. The area is color-coded according to haplotype, who dominated.
[external image]
![[external image]](http://img.janforman.com/th/chromozomY30000bc0a06.jpg){kind=link}
Prior to 4000 or perhaps 5000 years ago, there is a significant migration of people LLY22 group, it had still survive somewhere between the southern Urals and the Altai mountains, is actually kind of far less successful brother of Chinese M175. Now, however, quite quickly promoted throughout Siberia (at the expense of M173 and M170 last) and before 3,500 years ago to penetrate to the north of Europe, there still talks ural languages (Sami, Finnish, Estonian, ...), which are peculiar to this ethnic . The other part penetrates later as one of the last pre-Columbian migrations to North America. They are Eskimos and Aleuts. Their language is much more influenced by indigenous sub-polar areas of eastern Siberia and North America - speakers of the language groups of Na-Dene (Type M173), and so is their relationship to language ural languages today is little pronounced.
(sources-Links : http://ycc.biosci.arizona.edu
http://ystr.org
http://www.le.ac.uk/genetics/maj4/Jobli ... Review.pdf
http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/A ... 65_p43.pdf
Another source -language :
Apaches, Navajos and other Indians speaking languages Den? groups are significantly different (genetically and linguistically) from the rest of 'native' American population. This may be because of the relatively late migration, much like the Eskimos. Other Indians of North and South America would then have a common origin - and the Apaches and Navajo Indians would in fact not at all.
And funy vikings...
[external image]
![[external image]](http://img.janforman.com/th/vikingoviaug17.jpg){kind=link}
Interesting thread, especially due to my lineage and personal history.
My father's family is American Indian (Odawa [Ottawa]), while my mother's family came to the Americas from the British Isles a couple decades before the Mayflower (The joke in the family was that my mom was proud of her long ago European ancestors to America, but my dad's ancestors were here to shake hands with them when they arrived :wink: ).
I have lived in Korea, continuously (with the exception of the occasional vacation--like right now), for the better part of a quarter-century, but first lived there 28 years ago. Koreans feel a kinship with American Indians, due to the long-held belief that Asians emigrated to the Americas over the Bering Sea land bridge many millennia ago; when my wife (Korean) and I married 28 years ago, people said I seemed familiar to them, so it was o.k. (However, I always felt I looked a lot more like my mom's European side of the family).
There were many wigwams over the past couple-hundred years that were visited by Europeans (especially French), so DNA won't necessarily explain anything. Years ago, I sent my son's DNA sample into National Geographic's Genographic Project; the result was a haplotype that originated in the area around Britain and France--not surprising, as there was a Frenchman a couple-hundred years ago who interrupted my father's family's gene pool (However, my current French family name has nothing to do with it (I probably have no blood relation to that family)--the Frenchman in question had the name of Trotochaud).
Another aspect is if you look at the "Kennewick Man", whose reconstructed face looks just like Patrick Stewart. I think it's possible Proto-Europeans may have peopled Asia at one time, too, so who knows who all came over the Pacific land bridge. According to many American Indians, there may have been emigration, but in which direction? :D
My father's family is American Indian (Odawa [Ottawa]), while my mother's family came to the Americas from the British Isles a couple decades before the Mayflower (The joke in the family was that my mom was proud of her long ago European ancestors to America, but my dad's ancestors were here to shake hands with them when they arrived :wink: ).
I have lived in Korea, continuously (with the exception of the occasional vacation--like right now), for the better part of a quarter-century, but first lived there 28 years ago. Koreans feel a kinship with American Indians, due to the long-held belief that Asians emigrated to the Americas over the Bering Sea land bridge many millennia ago; when my wife (Korean) and I married 28 years ago, people said I seemed familiar to them, so it was o.k. (However, I always felt I looked a lot more like my mom's European side of the family).
There were many wigwams over the past couple-hundred years that were visited by Europeans (especially French), so DNA won't necessarily explain anything. Years ago, I sent my son's DNA sample into National Geographic's Genographic Project; the result was a haplotype that originated in the area around Britain and France--not surprising, as there was a Frenchman a couple-hundred years ago who interrupted my father's family's gene pool (However, my current French family name has nothing to do with it (I probably have no blood relation to that family)--the Frenchman in question had the name of Trotochaud).
Another aspect is if you look at the "Kennewick Man", whose reconstructed face looks just like Patrick Stewart. I think it's possible Proto-Europeans may have peopled Asia at one time, too, so who knows who all came over the Pacific land bridge. According to many American Indians, there may have been emigration, but in which direction? :D
Dusan's post addresses this, but to summarize the current scientific state of research concerning genomic studies among indigineous groups in the Americas, genetic traits and peopling of New World stem primarily from a Bering Strait migration.
There IS NOT strong genetic evidence that the Native peoples of the America's descended from western Eurasians (aka Europeans).
Strong genetic links indeed have been found to present day Central Aisan and Siberian populations but not Europeans.
Note: Doesn't negate the idea that there was a colonization of "Solutrean people" to the New World but suggests major founder effects stem from Central and Eastern Eurasian populations.
A better question right now is why Western Eurasian genetic traits are largely absent among the Native people of the Ameircas, that is if we agree to the Solutrean hyothesis which has been ferverntly debated over the years.
More work neeeds to be done and we must keep in mind the many challenges that have plagued the field of archaeology in regards to to building proper chronological frameworks in addition to proper typological-taxonomic classification of material remains and identification of such.
Finally, the need for aDNA (ancient DNA) is dually needed to clear things up unequivocally. Some aDNA studies have been done on Paleolithic human remains found in Canada and again the mtDNA results suggested central-eastern Eurasian connections. However Y-chromosome DNA could always caste a different story and social dynamics during these times are often ill understood.
There IS NOT strong genetic evidence that the Native peoples of the America's descended from western Eurasians (aka Europeans).
Strong genetic links indeed have been found to present day Central Aisan and Siberian populations but not Europeans.
Note: Doesn't negate the idea that there was a colonization of "Solutrean people" to the New World but suggests major founder effects stem from Central and Eastern Eurasian populations.
A better question right now is why Western Eurasian genetic traits are largely absent among the Native people of the Ameircas, that is if we agree to the Solutrean hyothesis which has been ferverntly debated over the years.
More work neeeds to be done and we must keep in mind the many challenges that have plagued the field of archaeology in regards to to building proper chronological frameworks in addition to proper typological-taxonomic classification of material remains and identification of such.
Finally, the need for aDNA (ancient DNA) is dually needed to clear things up unequivocally. Some aDNA studies have been done on Paleolithic human remains found in Canada and again the mtDNA results suggested central-eastern Eurasian connections. However Y-chromosome DNA could always caste a different story and social dynamics during these times are often ill understood.
Interesting theory proposed is this well done Canadian dramatization
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maziRFPY ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maziRFPY ... re=related
And that cable tv special that came out a few years ago illustrates what I'm getting at by social dynamics are ill understood. The end of the special suggests peaceful coexisting when "Solutreans" meet Bering strait migrants but the fact that no Y-chromosome DNA evidence for Solutrean genetic input exists among tribes today suggests IF such a scenario occurred, Solutrean men may have been killed off and women taken in by Bering strait migrants. Or it could be a matter of genetic drift, in that Solutreans were lesser in number and not as successful at reproducing for whatever reasons and that's why the Central Asian/Siberian genetic traits persist instead of European traits among first nation tribes of the Americas.
Truthfully, the perceived Solutrean/Euro. genetic input stemming from mtDNA among present day tribes (particularly ones in the NW of North Americ) is ambiguous and could have come from Siberian populations.
Then there are still the typological and chronological issues presently debated.
The show was heavy guess work.
Truthfully, the perceived Solutrean/Euro. genetic input stemming from mtDNA among present day tribes (particularly ones in the NW of North Americ) is ambiguous and could have come from Siberian populations.
Then there are still the typological and chronological issues presently debated.
The show was heavy guess work.
This all adds to the fact that race supremacy is literally an unreality. We are all from the same common stock, whether people like it or not. Either if you're an evolutionist or a believer in Creation such as myself, humans are a large family, all adding to the beautiful mosaic that we are of cultures, attributes, and phenotypes.
Poul Anderson worked this concept into one of his ``Time Patrol''storie.s
Is that a novelist or other?
There is one other theme at work in this entire discussion that might be of interest to the reader. Because of a long history of keeping Indian remains (human bones and other parts) in museums for a long time with out burying them, indignace among Indians has built against the archaeological community for decades till in 1990, our congress passed the NAGPRA law giving Indian tribes the legal right to reclaim all human remains of NA tribes, along with certain other items.
In court it is overwhelmingly favoring Indian's rights to remains found on Indian land. In a recent case of the Kennewick man, it was introduced that he was not NECESSARILY of what we consider to be of Indian origin just because he was of a certain antiquity.
Therefore, any possible presence of European ancestry in ancient American DNA would make an opening for archaeologists to continue studying ancient remains. This supposition is my own theory but I find is somewhat inescapable ramification of the European connection.
In court it is overwhelmingly favoring Indian's rights to remains found on Indian land. In a recent case of the Kennewick man, it was introduced that he was not NECESSARILY of what we consider to be of Indian origin just because he was of a certain antiquity.
Therefore, any possible presence of European ancestry in ancient American DNA would make an opening for archaeologists to continue studying ancient remains. This supposition is my own theory but I find is somewhat inescapable ramification of the European connection.
I know that part of the way this has been working in the US is that a tribe must actually claim any remains to be of their own for bones to be returned. I know a site in Pennsylvania where bones fragments from 10,000 BC were recovered in a Lake that was partly dried up for the season. I am acquainted with the archaeologist who currently houses the remains at a government facility and he said unless a tribe claims these they will remain here indefinitely. He of course had them registered like he was supposed to do and so far all he's hear back is cricket chirps from the Native American communities. This is of course since they are so old and no tribe could possibly lay claim to them since it was discovered well outside a time frame close to the historical. Bones like these can actually be subject to analysis since they are so low profile, in other words there would be a possibility to extract the aDNA. There is some loophole he explained to me but it can still be touchy.
Kennewick man became a very touchy situation though due to the high profile nature of the find, but there is hope for aDNA extraction. Still, the average US archaeologist is usually somewhat intimidated to proceed any futher.
Kennewick man became a very touchy situation though due to the high profile nature of the find, but there is hope for aDNA extraction. Still, the average US archaeologist is usually somewhat intimidated to proceed any futher.
Actually the archaeologist who was the plaintiff in the Kennewick case, R. Bonnichsen, was an acquaintance. Though the remains were about 9200 years old, the Umatilla tribe laid claim to the remains but not before DNA samples had been extracted and tested.
In a bit of irony, I shot bows and arrows with Bonnichsen one week before his unexpected death. He had already secured a hard fought win against the Umatilla, several other tribes, and the US government.
If you are really bored, here is the long story of the fight: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennewick_Man
I went to several lectures given by the archaeologist who analyzed the DNA for the court proceedings and here is a simplified conclusion: K man's DNA doesn't really look like anybody's exactly. DNA changes over time and is, and always has been, an amalgamation from so many different sources. K man was not Siberian or European. He was more like a Pacific Islander or etc than anything, but not exactly.
In a bit of irony, I shot bows and arrows with Bonnichsen one week before his unexpected death. He had already secured a hard fought win against the Umatilla, several other tribes, and the US government.
If you are really bored, here is the long story of the fight: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennewick_Man
I went to several lectures given by the archaeologist who analyzed the DNA for the court proceedings and here is a simplified conclusion: K man's DNA doesn't really look like anybody's exactly. DNA changes over time and is, and always has been, an amalgamation from so many different sources. K man was not Siberian or European. He was more like a Pacific Islander or etc than anything, but not exactly.
I stopped following Kennewick Man's case but last I heard (and this was years ago mind you) there was quite the commotion about extracting his aDNA. I didn't realize it was actually done though...thought things were getting too heated over the remains for any real progress to occur but from an archaeological point of view, I'm glad they were able to extract some meaningful info out of the sample taken.
Not all that surprised he is like a Pacific Islander as the modern genomic studies have shown Native American DNA, particularly among groups in South America, does indeed have similar haplogroups to such people. Quite a few researchers feel that Pacific Islander input among SA tribes was due more to a very archaic arrival to the area by sea/boat. The concept of a pre-clovis coastal migration has been brought up before in a study referenced here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Glacial_Maximum
The Paleolithic peopling of the America's has turned out to be quite a nuanced story and DNA/aDNA has helped shed some light here. I hope more progress will be made despite the politics surrounding such research.
Not all that surprised he is like a Pacific Islander as the modern genomic studies have shown Native American DNA, particularly among groups in South America, does indeed have similar haplogroups to such people. Quite a few researchers feel that Pacific Islander input among SA tribes was due more to a very archaic arrival to the area by sea/boat. The concept of a pre-clovis coastal migration has been brought up before in a study referenced here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Glacial_Maximum
The Paleolithic peopling of the America's has turned out to be quite a nuanced story and DNA/aDNA has helped shed some light here. I hope more progress will be made despite the politics surrounding such research.
I still contend that the Kennewick Man was actually Patrick Stewart ;)
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![[external image]](http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41268000/jpg/_41268397_kennewick_model_ap250.jpg){kind=link}
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![[external image]](http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01630/star-trek_1630225c.jpg){kind=link}
Thomas: I agree with you. But this bust is also very controversial. There is nothing on the skull which would indicate the prominence of the nose nor its shape. Same with ears. This is entirely instinctive with the artist. Skin color and hair style cannot be known. What about facial scarification or tatoos?
You could give identical copies of this same bust to many different stylists and come up with many possible variations.
Change the nose and some other features and the possibilities are great.
You could give identical copies of this same bust to many different stylists and come up with many possible variations.
Change the nose and some other features and the possibilities are great.
This new study done by Harvard University was recently published. Their conclusion is that NAs are basically made up of three waves of Siberian stock. I believe in the future there might be more room for nuances from other locations.
http://www.boston.com/whitecoatnotes/20 ... story.html
As a side issue, Joe Wilson sent me a copy of his master thesis study of Apache archery gear and I find good merit in his assertion that the latest wave of Athapaskan arrival may well coincide with Mongol era repression and escape of Siberians in the 12 or 13 centuries. The plot thickens.
http://www.boston.com/whitecoatnotes/20 ... story.html
As a side issue, Joe Wilson sent me a copy of his master thesis study of Apache archery gear and I find good merit in his assertion that the latest wave of Athapaskan arrival may well coincide with Mongol era repression and escape of Siberians in the 12 or 13 centuries. The plot thickens.
Jack, interesting link !
you are faster than me checking molecular med/bio news ;-)
you are faster than me checking molecular med/bio news ;-)
Uli; I cheated; a similar article was front page news in the local paper. Very few archaeological themes make it to the front page here.
The study does say that they discounted for European boodline influence so this opens the door for a further study for EARLY European bloodlines.
Nothing is ever proved is it? The papers get longer with more disclaimers.
The study does say that they discounted for European boodline influence so this opens the door for a further study for EARLY European bloodlines.
Nothing is ever proved is it? The papers get longer with more disclaimers.
An interesting aspect of the Nature magazine article is after a long stay in the new world, some NAs returned to Siberia to leave their DNA in those bloodlines.
I remember that during the cold war it was said that Eskimos rowed their traditional skin covered boats from Alaskan areas to the shores of Siberia to visit kin. Navy types reported that it is very hard to pick up a skin boat on sonar. So they were flying beneath the radar so as to speak.
There are other tales of how two groups at the far frontiers of their respective countries found it useful to be friends.
I remember that during the cold war it was said that Eskimos rowed their traditional skin covered boats from Alaskan areas to the shores of Siberia to visit kin. Navy types reported that it is very hard to pick up a skin boat on sonar. So they were flying beneath the radar so as to speak.
There are other tales of how two groups at the far frontiers of their respective countries found it useful to be friends.
My recurring question is; if archery went on for 10,000 or 20,000 years in Asia, why was this technology not adapted by Americans till 1500 years ago?
Report on the PaleoAmerican Odyssey Conference, Oct 17-19, 2013, in Santa Fe, New Mexico
This was a meeting of professional and avocational archaeologists from around the world who gathered together to discuss where the first people in the New World arrived from, when they arrived, and who they were. Presenters came from Siberia, Japan, Australia, Central and South America, from all over the USA, and many other places. Attendees received a 79 page itinerary and abstracts while a 500-plus page hardback book of 31 of the presentations was made available for purchase under the same title, "PaleoAmerican Odyssey," and can also be ordered online .
As usual for archaeology presentations, the lectures ranged from dry as week old Sahara toast to exciting and even exhilarating. When will lecturers learn to spare us the graphs and thrill us with the artifacts? Take a group of well fed folks, restrict their activity, turn down the lights, show them a graph and, Voila!..sleep. Those few compelled to see the decimals can read the report later for themselves. Several lecturers also insistedn reading the same report which was published in the book. Please! Did they not take college Speech class? Now the highlights.
For myself, the complex DNA discussions are hard to beat. Seems as though those studies are pointing to Western Asians in Siberia, those folks of Indo/European/African origin heritage as being the ancestors of Native Americans rather than the Mongol/ East Asian groups we might have expected. One possible explanation of why Kennewick Man's DNA pointed toward Ainu/ Polynesian origins is that they appear to share the same MOTHER group as American Indians.
There were approximately 100 poster presentations running in four hour sessions concurrently with the major oral lectures. It was truly difficult to take everything in. My favorite poster was on the subject of paleo textiles. There have been many such found including closed toe sandals, large shopping type bags, mats, cloth aprons, string, rope and etc all found in dry caves in Nevada, USA, and dated 8-9000 years old. Easily the most attended poster presentation was of a 9,000 year old atl-atl dart foreshaft found on a receding ice sheet in Colorado and its reconstruction. Other presenters spoke on every imaginable subject having to do with mammoth, bison, extinct fauna, and all possible knappable material. The quest for projectile point collecting dominated the program.
Dennis Stanford of the Smithsonian had a strong presence as he announced five new Solutrean points found in New England complete with associated with C 14 charcoal dates of about 22 KYO. These Solutrean points have prototypes on the Spanish coast of Iberia. (KYO= thousand years old; means adjusted radio carbon years old, same as calendar years old= BP- before the present; Archaeo-speak) Dennis had obviously kept his cards close to his chest on this Solutrean info as only Michael Collins of our Texas Gault Site seemed to have previous knowledge.
Readers may remember several years ago when Stanford and Collins shared the microphone at an AIA event at Houston Baptist University and Collins was congenial but not willing to dance to Stanford's Solutrean tune. No Longer! Collins took the lead announcing a map of five new cultures in the New World encompassing most previous theories into one unified one. The big game hunters of "Clovis First" in the Americas timeline of 13 KYO could now be doubled and then some, according to Collins' new "Siberia and Iberia" tune.
Several other archaeologists of retirement age and more seemed willing to bet their careers on finds ranging to 34 KYO and even older for New World sites. Many had been previously published which had come under a suspicion which is now lifting. The door appears to be open to investigate older sites which looked too early to accept in their time.
Jack Farrell
This was a meeting of professional and avocational archaeologists from around the world who gathered together to discuss where the first people in the New World arrived from, when they arrived, and who they were. Presenters came from Siberia, Japan, Australia, Central and South America, from all over the USA, and many other places. Attendees received a 79 page itinerary and abstracts while a 500-plus page hardback book of 31 of the presentations was made available for purchase under the same title, "PaleoAmerican Odyssey," and can also be ordered online .
As usual for archaeology presentations, the lectures ranged from dry as week old Sahara toast to exciting and even exhilarating. When will lecturers learn to spare us the graphs and thrill us with the artifacts? Take a group of well fed folks, restrict their activity, turn down the lights, show them a graph and, Voila!..sleep. Those few compelled to see the decimals can read the report later for themselves. Several lecturers also insistedn reading the same report which was published in the book. Please! Did they not take college Speech class? Now the highlights.
For myself, the complex DNA discussions are hard to beat. Seems as though those studies are pointing to Western Asians in Siberia, those folks of Indo/European/African origin heritage as being the ancestors of Native Americans rather than the Mongol/ East Asian groups we might have expected. One possible explanation of why Kennewick Man's DNA pointed toward Ainu/ Polynesian origins is that they appear to share the same MOTHER group as American Indians.
There were approximately 100 poster presentations running in four hour sessions concurrently with the major oral lectures. It was truly difficult to take everything in. My favorite poster was on the subject of paleo textiles. There have been many such found including closed toe sandals, large shopping type bags, mats, cloth aprons, string, rope and etc all found in dry caves in Nevada, USA, and dated 8-9000 years old. Easily the most attended poster presentation was of a 9,000 year old atl-atl dart foreshaft found on a receding ice sheet in Colorado and its reconstruction. Other presenters spoke on every imaginable subject having to do with mammoth, bison, extinct fauna, and all possible knappable material. The quest for projectile point collecting dominated the program.
Dennis Stanford of the Smithsonian had a strong presence as he announced five new Solutrean points found in New England complete with associated with C 14 charcoal dates of about 22 KYO. These Solutrean points have prototypes on the Spanish coast of Iberia. (KYO= thousand years old; means adjusted radio carbon years old, same as calendar years old= BP- before the present; Archaeo-speak) Dennis had obviously kept his cards close to his chest on this Solutrean info as only Michael Collins of our Texas Gault Site seemed to have previous knowledge.
Readers may remember several years ago when Stanford and Collins shared the microphone at an AIA event at Houston Baptist University and Collins was congenial but not willing to dance to Stanford's Solutrean tune. No Longer! Collins took the lead announcing a map of five new cultures in the New World encompassing most previous theories into one unified one. The big game hunters of "Clovis First" in the Americas timeline of 13 KYO could now be doubled and then some, according to Collins' new "Siberia and Iberia" tune.
Several other archaeologists of retirement age and more seemed willing to bet their careers on finds ranging to 34 KYO and even older for New World sites. Many had been previously published which had come under a suspicion which is now lifting. The door appears to be open to investigate older sites which looked too early to accept in their time.
Jack Farrell
Thanks , Jack.In other word, no news. Some comes from south islands (polynesia) way and most from Siberia...
Dusan; More like the same people who came from Europe and India through Siberia to the Americas, also went to the Pacific islands. Some people also came from around Spain.
For this "Spain" influence are genetic reasons too - or only " Solutrean points" looks like spain...prototipes ? :shock:
They look like Spain prototypes. Except at one historic fort site where they were used to seeing European gun flints among the artifacts, they did find a flint knife that they proclaimed as "French flint". This artifact was found decades ago and was in a museum collection.
A Solutrean flint knife made from flint from France and found in New England, USA!!!!
A Solutrean flint knife made from flint from France and found in New England, USA!!!!
And about the Siberian connection; these were western type peoples. Remember the reaction when red haired mummies were found in Xinjaing a decade or two ago? The Native Americans are related to this same group by DNA tests.
It was always assumed that the Siberians were only of Mongolian type peoples. This is the big news here. And that Pacific peoples are not the parent stock of Am. Indians but parallel descendants of the same parents.
It was always assumed that the Siberians were only of Mongolian type peoples. This is the big news here. And that Pacific peoples are not the parent stock of Am. Indians but parallel descendants of the same parents.
thank you Jack,
very interesting update
very interesting update
Yes , red hair mummie change many in asia and Otzi man change in Europa..
Thanks Jack, France flint is haevy argument.
Thanks Jack, France flint is haevy argument.
Thanks , Jack. You Know, modern genetic research have greatly helped our Slavs pride...
Historians among us and in fact in all Slavic countries are not able to understand developments in genetics and keep repeating the old mantra learned about ourt coming in 5-6 c. in Europe..
In your article mr.Donald N. Yates forget say litlle "detail" (like our historians)-WHY R1b chromosomal haplogrup is more the most common lineage in modern Europe?!? And who really represents the reality R1b today ????
R1b is close descendets our R1a-SLAVS gens !. Its the most secret TABU! R1A people was in Europa territory at least 8000 years...and like we see in America too ... :lol:
Approaching a time of great change in the history of mankind and will be rewritten thousands of books!
There are overwritten.It turns out that most of our old legends of our participation in the Greek "miracle", the Roman Empire and especially the country Germania was NOT the DEUTCH (origin . selfname of this people) - (!), BUT SLAVONIC-ARIJAN tribes who ruled successively nordic Gotes tribes -Deutche- was right...
Yeh , genetic is wonderfull .. :idea:
Historians among us and in fact in all Slavic countries are not able to understand developments in genetics and keep repeating the old mantra learned about ourt coming in 5-6 c. in Europe..
In your article mr.Donald N. Yates forget say litlle "detail" (like our historians)-WHY R1b chromosomal haplogrup is more the most common lineage in modern Europe?!? And who really represents the reality R1b today ????
R1b is close descendets our R1a-SLAVS gens !. Its the most secret TABU! R1A people was in Europa territory at least 8000 years...and like we see in America too ... :lol:
Approaching a time of great change in the history of mankind and will be rewritten thousands of books!
There are overwritten.It turns out that most of our old legends of our participation in the Greek "miracle", the Roman Empire and especially the country Germania was NOT the DEUTCH (origin . selfname of this people) - (!), BUT SLAVONIC-ARIJAN tribes who ruled successively nordic Gotes tribes -Deutche- was right...
Yeh , genetic is wonderfull .. :idea: