Flight Shooting
Do you "snatch" when flight shooting; that is , draw and release immediately?
Jack,
Are you asking me? We try to draw fast and release as soon as we get to full draw, but sometimes you can waste time if your coach says your angle is too low. The "snatched" release in Arabic and Turkish literature is a different thing. You draw steadily until about 3 inches of the arrow is left then snatch it rapidly to full draw and release. This latter one is somewhat easier with a siper because you do not have to worry about a half inch either way. However, it is interesting to think that this was also a target release and they obviously could precisely repeat the action.
Not me though.
Are you asking me? We try to draw fast and release as soon as we get to full draw, but sometimes you can waste time if your coach says your angle is too low. The "snatched" release in Arabic and Turkish literature is a different thing. You draw steadily until about 3 inches of the arrow is left then snatch it rapidly to full draw and release. This latter one is somewhat easier with a siper because you do not have to worry about a half inch either way. However, it is interesting to think that this was also a target release and they obviously could precisely repeat the action.
Not me though.
Sure Bede; I am asking you and everybody. I am still struggling with my Scythian to determine its capabilities and find it much easier to draw and shoot in one moment. Unfortunately when I go to the okmaydani I take the group and we share equipment so my own shooting time is greatly reduced. Right now there are only two of us making totally traditional equipment but sharing also has its rewards.
Finding a cleared field where a group can trample for several hours is exceedingly hard to find within a close distance. My new place is 50 minutes drive, one way and my window of opportunity will close next weekend.
Finding a cleared field where a group can trample for several hours is exceedingly hard to find within a close distance. My new place is 50 minutes drive, one way and my window of opportunity will close next weekend.
Jack,
I think you are doing the right thing. To maximise your success, unstring the bow for half and hour between shooters so that is recovers some of its strength. This was the procedure in the old days when one bow and the same arrow were used by two competitors. Even so the first to shoot often shot farther.
I think you are doing the right thing. To maximise your success, unstring the bow for half and hour between shooters so that is recovers some of its strength. This was the procedure in the old days when one bow and the same arrow were used by two competitors. Even so the first to shoot often shot farther.
Was out the other week flight shooting with my Scythian bow and had been shooting for quite some time when I broke this arrow. I attribute it to technique because there had been no problems with the arrow before. It is Sitka Spruce with perfect close grain, ideally arranged, 16 grams.
Am so glad I was wearing gloves because the arrow slammed into the grip; the fletch piece flew 100 feet, the other parts not so far.
I have also been shooting an arrow of identical wood weighing 12 grams with no problem and no great distance. Probably when I cut the bow down to #68 and left the tips the same, performance suffered. But I still love my girl!!!
The consensus is that my bow core is actually Farkleberry and not Mahaleb cherry. Well, if they say so.
Am so glad I was wearing gloves because the arrow slammed into the grip; the fletch piece flew 100 feet, the other parts not so far.
I have also been shooting an arrow of identical wood weighing 12 grams with no problem and no great distance. Probably when I cut the bow down to #68 and left the tips the same, performance suffered. But I still love my girl!!!
The consensus is that my bow core is actually Farkleberry and not Mahaleb cherry. Well, if they say so.
The owners of the field where we flight shoot cut the hay last week and so opened a little window for us to go flight shooting again which we did today. There were only three of us but no problem since this leaves me more opportunity to shoot. I brought my long string line and staked off the distances. It was hot, above 90, humid, with strong sunshine and a light head wind. My Korean semi hornbow, #56, which shot about 297 yards with its standard 7X7 Korean target arrows last winter had a hard time making it to 265 today.
Jim caught the string of an Osage bow under his armguard immediately raising huge dark welt. A temperamental angular composite #65 of mine reversed itself shooting a flight arrow. So after a couple of hours we had enough but will surely ready up for a return in the winter, January or February, if you could call that winter. Some late comers wanted to try out our equipment but I declined even to allow them our everyday bows because of the danger we have experienced in this sport. A sport for kings!
Jim caught the string of an Osage bow under his armguard immediately raising huge dark welt. A temperamental angular composite #65 of mine reversed itself shooting a flight arrow. So after a couple of hours we had enough but will surely ready up for a return in the winter, January or February, if you could call that winter. Some late comers wanted to try out our equipment but I declined even to allow them our everyday bows because of the danger we have experienced in this sport. A sport for kings!
It is best to find the right balance between drawing and shooting as fast as possible and finding the correct angle and doing the right technique.
As soon as a bow is strung it looses energy/poundage, that's why the Turks strung a flightbow, shot it, and unstrung it again.
Second effect is when you are at full draw, again the bow looses energy/poundage, so the best is to draw and shoot as quickly as possible while maintaining a correct technique and angle.
I try to do it the same way but it gets really difficult with drawweights beyond 100lbs. I wonder then, will a quickly drawn 85lbs bow get better results than a slowly drawn 110lbs bow if all other factors are the same?
again regarding points above I have to think of the Ottoman text saying 'one cant become successful in flight shooting by brute force, but by skill'
thanks
Gokmen
As soon as a bow is strung it looses energy/poundage, that's why the Turks strung a flightbow, shot it, and unstrung it again.
Second effect is when you are at full draw, again the bow looses energy/poundage, so the best is to draw and shoot as quickly as possible while maintaining a correct technique and angle.
I try to do it the same way but it gets really difficult with drawweights beyond 100lbs. I wonder then, will a quickly drawn 85lbs bow get better results than a slowly drawn 110lbs bow if all other factors are the same?
again regarding points above I have to think of the Ottoman text saying 'one cant become successful in flight shooting by brute force, but by skill'
thanks
Gokmen
Brilliant stuff Jack :) Flight shooting is very enjoyable. How did the egyptian bow do, and what brace height did you use?
Scary stuff with the splintering arrow back in March. To me it looks like it might have had slightly too low stiffness. I always make my flight arrows a little too stiff rather than the opposite, to make sure they don't explode. I've had a few of those too, but those have always had too low spine, or the rear end of them have been too thin with a too heavy front end. I bet this is even more important with composites, considering the high brace tension - even though the high brace height should make them a little more gentle towards the arrows, compared to wooden low brace height flight bows.
Anyway, during the last weekend of this August there is the annual norwegian flight championship, and I hope to try out my little egyptian with some flight arrows. It seems to have gained a few pounds since last time I drew it, so maybe it won't be half bad. The force-draw curve is very interesting, anyway. I will be using a 15-strand dacron string on it, and a 7"+ brace height. Hope it won't reverse too...
Scary stuff with the splintering arrow back in March. To me it looks like it might have had slightly too low stiffness. I always make my flight arrows a little too stiff rather than the opposite, to make sure they don't explode. I've had a few of those too, but those have always had too low spine, or the rear end of them have been too thin with a too heavy front end. I bet this is even more important with composites, considering the high brace tension - even though the high brace height should make them a little more gentle towards the arrows, compared to wooden low brace height flight bows.
Anyway, during the last weekend of this August there is the annual norwegian flight championship, and I hope to try out my little egyptian with some flight arrows. It seems to have gained a few pounds since last time I drew it, so maybe it won't be half bad. The force-draw curve is very interesting, anyway. I will be using a 15-strand dacron string on it, and a 7"+ brace height. Hope it won't reverse too...
One of the standard techniques in use in Turkey and other parts of the Near East was a steady draw until only a hands-breadth of the arrow was left to go and then suddenly completing the draw and release in one movement. This removes the problem of holding at full draw and allows the angle of the shot to be attained before the final push.
However, the problem is that an accidental overdraw is possible with disastrous results if the arrow lodges in the hand. It is best to practise this with a light bow in slow motion with arrows of the exact length of your flight arrows. Once you are totally confident, move onto your flight bow. I am not recommending this technique, but it is a viable alternative.
Practically the suggestion to use stiffer arrows than normal for your flight arrows is quite reasonable. You are not trying to hit a target but only attempting to have the arrows fly in a straight line. However, with a finger release there can be complications with the type of bow handle (narrow; shelf-less; wide; centre shot shelf; etc.) so where the arrow breaks can be a good indicator of the problem.
I have had an arrow break in the siper because it had an undetected hairline fracture. This does not look like Jack's problem, but is another one of the things that can go wrong.
I have strings come off bows too; thirty-three feet is my record. It is very disconcerting with highly reflexed bows. Strings breaking are also a problem. You always may flight strings as light as practical, but they are very close to breaking.
However, the problem is that an accidental overdraw is possible with disastrous results if the arrow lodges in the hand. It is best to practise this with a light bow in slow motion with arrows of the exact length of your flight arrows. Once you are totally confident, move onto your flight bow. I am not recommending this technique, but it is a viable alternative.
Practically the suggestion to use stiffer arrows than normal for your flight arrows is quite reasonable. You are not trying to hit a target but only attempting to have the arrows fly in a straight line. However, with a finger release there can be complications with the type of bow handle (narrow; shelf-less; wide; centre shot shelf; etc.) so where the arrow breaks can be a good indicator of the problem.
I have had an arrow break in the siper because it had an undetected hairline fracture. This does not look like Jack's problem, but is another one of the things that can go wrong.
I have strings come off bows too; thirty-three feet is my record. It is very disconcerting with highly reflexed bows. Strings breaking are also a problem. You always may flight strings as light as practical, but they are very close to breaking.
The only way to do any good at this sport is to push the equipment to near the breaking point, the arrows, the bows, the string, the archer. Mostly I want to preserve the archer so also need to preserve the equipment. I don't have enough arrows to match my bows.
I figured that if the Korean carbon arrows with heavy points do so well then a lighter bamboo arrow should outshoot them. But the fletchings were too high and the shafts were just a little too long and in the end none could surpass the carbons because of their ideal length and small plastic fletchings.
Nor were my strings ideal. So there will be several months to work on equipment for the next opportunity.
Ivar, the angular bow is one you have not seen, a short one which was shot with low brace, made to the same Sakhara pattern I sent you. It is also Ibex. Maybe not enough taper to the limbs.
I figured that if the Korean carbon arrows with heavy points do so well then a lighter bamboo arrow should outshoot them. But the fletchings were too high and the shafts were just a little too long and in the end none could surpass the carbons because of their ideal length and small plastic fletchings.
Nor were my strings ideal. So there will be several months to work on equipment for the next opportunity.
Ivar, the angular bow is one you have not seen, a short one which was shot with low brace, made to the same Sakhara pattern I sent you. It is also Ibex. Maybe not enough taper to the limbs.
I had the reverse experience with Korean bamboo arrows: they out-shot the modern ones, but it is all relative. Maybe my technique was wrong for Korean bows and caused an anomalous and misleading result.