Few questions on Japanese archery techniques
As a student of archery and history, difference(if any) between techniques of modern target shooting and military archery was one of my biggest questions. Japanese archery is no exception.
One of the questions I had in relation to Japanese archery(kyudo) technique was its particularly long draw lenth and the position of drawing hand. To elaborate further, I have posted a picture of Jaap koppedrayer drawing a yumi.
[external image]
When fully drawn, the arrow is almost level to his mustache, and the angle between the forearm and upper arm is considerable, at least when compared to Korean archery.
Although I must admit that I have no experience in drawing yumi, but I doubt whether the same technique could be applied without alteration when drawing much heavier war bows designed to pierce heavy armour.
The fact that most kyudo archers rarely use bows above 40~45lbs seems related to this reason, although I maybe drawing hasty conclusion.
Well, the question is : Were there considerable gap between the draw length(and the length of arrows) of modern target yumi and 'war yumi' which might have been considerably heavier?
The only example I could get was the set of 18~19th century Japanese war arrows in Grayson's book 'Traditional archery from six continents', which were 88cm long in average.
The second question is about the post-release state of yumi,
shown at picture below
[external image]
As one can see, after the release the bow rotates in the archer's bow-hand so that the back of the bow is facing the archer.
Was this done intentionally solely by the archer?
Or was it partly due to the 'kick' of the yumi?
One of the questions I had in relation to Japanese archery(kyudo) technique was its particularly long draw lenth and the position of drawing hand. To elaborate further, I have posted a picture of Jaap koppedrayer drawing a yumi.
[external image]
![[external image]](http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r547/Sinsigel/Img_1526.jpg){kind=link}
When fully drawn, the arrow is almost level to his mustache, and the angle between the forearm and upper arm is considerable, at least when compared to Korean archery.
Although I must admit that I have no experience in drawing yumi, but I doubt whether the same technique could be applied without alteration when drawing much heavier war bows designed to pierce heavy armour.
The fact that most kyudo archers rarely use bows above 40~45lbs seems related to this reason, although I maybe drawing hasty conclusion.
Well, the question is : Were there considerable gap between the draw length(and the length of arrows) of modern target yumi and 'war yumi' which might have been considerably heavier?
The only example I could get was the set of 18~19th century Japanese war arrows in Grayson's book 'Traditional archery from six continents', which were 88cm long in average.
The second question is about the post-release state of yumi,
shown at picture below
[external image]
![[external image]](http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/r547/Sinsigel/kyudo.jpg){kind=link}
As one can see, after the release the bow rotates in the archer's bow-hand so that the back of the bow is facing the archer.
Was this done intentionally solely by the archer?
Or was it partly due to the 'kick' of the yumi?
hi sinsigel,
to your first question: yes. the Bushi or Samurai had a helmet with a decoration on the sides, mostly looking like a rolled tongue. when the string touched this tongue, full draw was reached.
second question: the bow turns around in the hand, because the archer pushes the right side of the bow with his thumb-root towards the target (in extreme the bow turns around completely and the string touches the forearm on the outer side). this had to be avoided on the battlefield, so archers had some kind of resin on their glove to have a sticky grip.
to the photo of Jaap: this is not full draw! as you can see by the shadow of the arrow and string, both don?t touch the body. full draw is reached, when the arrow touches the cheek and the string the chest.
Peter
to your first question: yes. the Bushi or Samurai had a helmet with a decoration on the sides, mostly looking like a rolled tongue. when the string touched this tongue, full draw was reached.
second question: the bow turns around in the hand, because the archer pushes the right side of the bow with his thumb-root towards the target (in extreme the bow turns around completely and the string touches the forearm on the outer side). this had to be avoided on the battlefield, so archers had some kind of resin on their glove to have a sticky grip.
to the photo of Jaap: this is not full draw! as you can see by the shadow of the arrow and string, both don?t touch the body. full draw is reached, when the arrow touches the cheek and the string the chest.
Peter
There are also many different sub-styles of Japanese archery as well. Some are oriented towards towards military applications, some are oriented towards ceremonial applications, and some are blends of those styles like the ANKF style. There are going to be variations in draw length, how high to hold the arrow, etc, etc. Fwiw, Jaap has observed young Japanese archers drawing 150# with no problem (although he didn't say which sub-style they were practicing).
Spinning the bow in the bow hand (and pointing the upper siyah towards the target) seemed to be popular in the late part of the 1st millennium AD. It's described in Wang Ju's manual from the Tang dynasty. From Tang through Ming periods, there always seemed to be a fraction of people who preferred shooting this way. There is also Chinese and Persian artwork that depicts archers on horse (or on camel) with bows already spun around in their hand.
Yumis I've observed have the string biased towards one side (so they must be constructed exclusively for right-handers or exclusively for left-handers). That will increase the tendency for the bow to spin.
Spinning the bow in the bow hand (and pointing the upper siyah towards the target) seemed to be popular in the late part of the 1st millennium AD. It's described in Wang Ju's manual from the Tang dynasty. From Tang through Ming periods, there always seemed to be a fraction of people who preferred shooting this way. There is also Chinese and Persian artwork that depicts archers on horse (or on camel) with bows already spun around in their hand.
Yumis I've observed have the string biased towards one side (so they must be constructed exclusively for right-handers or exclusively for left-handers). That will increase the tendency for the bow to spin.
Historically, there are yumi with heavy poundage as there are written records for yumi which require 2 3 4 or 5 people to brace ther string.
There are many kyudo school in this modern day. Some school (for example, Heki Ryu) teaching drawing technique which can be applied to high poundage yumi.
There are many kyudo school in this modern day. Some school (for example, Heki Ryu) teaching drawing technique which can be applied to high poundage yumi.
in the end most of the battle archery technique of the great archery nations is similar in the basics in my opinion be it English, Persian, Chinese or Japanese. The battlefield required higher drawweights and you can only draw these with a proper technique using your proper back muscles. The English would call it "to draw in the bow". Regarding today's yumi technique, you would not be able to draw heavier bows 50cm above your head.
And for the long Japanese arrows you need some decent poundage, otherwise the arrows just wont go, we see that today with the japanese team on horseback archery competitions. Hungarian style is a challenge with low poundage yumis.
Btw I have seen a yumi in the Royal armouries in leeds with a label saying that it is around 70 lbs but I dont know how or who measured it..
Gokmen
And for the long Japanese arrows you need some decent poundage, otherwise the arrows just wont go, we see that today with the japanese team on horseback archery competitions. Hungarian style is a challenge with low poundage yumis.
Btw I have seen a yumi in the Royal armouries in leeds with a label saying that it is around 70 lbs but I dont know how or who measured it..
Gokmen
Gokmen: complete agreement. Current style shooting Yumi is mainly an aesthetic issue. Combat and the use of bow hunting requires speed and ability to shoot from different distances and different situations. Philosophical page application but Yumi is beautiful and inspiring.Gokmen wrote:
...Regarding today's yumi technique, you would not be able to draw heavier bows 50cm above your head...
Btw I have seen a yumi in the Royal armouries in leeds with a label saying that it is around 70 lbs ..
Gokmen
ATARNet forum - why are not archers Kyujutsu style? The second option - archers Kyujutsu style today do not exist ...
The reasoning ...
Sand??-san-gen-do in Kyoto and shooting 24 hours at a distance of 120 meters .... how many arrows would today Kyudo style shooter fired and how many would hit at 120 meters??
[quote="Kyudohund"]hi sinsigel,
to your first question: yes. the Bushi or Samurai had a helmet with a decoration on the sides, mostly looking like a rolled tongue. when the string touched this tongue, full draw was reached.
second question: the bow turns around in the hand, because the archer pushes the right side of the bow with his thumb-root towards the target (in extreme the bow turns around completely and the string touches the forearm on the outer side). this had to be avoided on the battlefield, so archers had some kind of resin on their glove to have a sticky grip.
to the photo of Jaap: this is not full draw! as you can see by the shadow of the arrow and string, both don?t touch the body. full draw is reached, when the arrow touches the cheek and the string the chest.
Peter[/quote]
I heard that the style of drawing the bow until it reaches the sides of helm is from the Heki-ryu. Are there any literary sources explaining such shooting techniques?
to your first question: yes. the Bushi or Samurai had a helmet with a decoration on the sides, mostly looking like a rolled tongue. when the string touched this tongue, full draw was reached.
second question: the bow turns around in the hand, because the archer pushes the right side of the bow with his thumb-root towards the target (in extreme the bow turns around completely and the string touches the forearm on the outer side). this had to be avoided on the battlefield, so archers had some kind of resin on their glove to have a sticky grip.
to the photo of Jaap: this is not full draw! as you can see by the shadow of the arrow and string, both don?t touch the body. full draw is reached, when the arrow touches the cheek and the string the chest.
Peter[/quote]
I heard that the style of drawing the bow until it reaches the sides of helm is from the Heki-ryu. Are there any literary sources explaining such shooting techniques?
see this link:
http://japancutters.blogspot.co.at/2012 ... o-mae.html
http://japancutters.blogspot.co.at/2012 ... o-mae.html