Kind of Turkish from Finland

And this is what I am trying to do...
Oh, it`s too heavy.

I will put some material: "making of Kind of Turkish" if somebody is/are really interested.

Aiai, very cool! Apart from the low angle of the tips, I think it looks very good.

When I opened my last turkish I spent more than a week opening it. Think of it as a way of inducing a lot of stringfollow. Do it slowly with low stress, and you should be safe. If you worry about de-lamination I think it is a good precaution to wrap the limbs tightly with strong thread. This way, you might be able to save it, or parts of it if something should come loose.

Before using the tepeliks I would use the asa-gezi (not sure if that's correctly written) between the tips and spread them as much as you can. The more reflex you can get out of it the safer and easier it will be to put a string on it. Most of the reflex will probably come back over time later. In any case I would not worry about losing reflex with the first few bows anyway.

Thanks.
Aza gezi is now familiar tool, but in Adam`s book, he tells open tips whit it about two feet away from each other. At the moment when bow is free of any tool, there is 62cm between tips. I think it is ok. And just little bit twist... That is not ok.
I haven?t heard any "crack" sound when I have been workn whit tepeliks.
I bend it slowly down and up and down..., but bow is shakin`, table is shakin`and even my "strong" arms are shakin`, whole man is shakin`...
And so I can feel, there is a quite power restored.

But you, Kviljo, think that it`s safer continue whit aza gezi so far as possible?

And a another thing, is it wise leave tepeliks tied over night or keep them tied during whole proccess?

Yes, I am not afraid losin` some reflex, as you told. It?s my first Turkish bow. I am just hoping for shootable bow in one piece.

I think it is wise to follow Adams advice. I do not have enough experience to say anything else :) But I think that if you want to be really safe, you could leave the bow with the asa gezi for an even longer time. I extended mine as far as possible. Not sure if that is the best way to go, but it worked for my bow.

But if you have bent the limbs to follow the curvature of the tepeliks already, I would not hesitate to leave them on for some hours, or even a day, and see what happens. Eventually it will have opened up enough to give you confidence that it will be okay to put on the string.

Ok. Horn was simply just too thick.
I have scarped away quite much stuff and now I am in this point.
Still it`s so too heavy to handle.

And so...

I took away those sinew "rings". So it was easier to work whit horn.

Now I have one problem more...

Belly should be round and it still is, but... All the time it will be more and more like flat. Sinew backin is comin`around from back to sides of bows belly and some 2-3mm overlap on horn. So, I can`t make horn more thinner in edge... I will loose shape of the horn (round) if I continue much more.

Any good ideas?

Do you have some special tool/tools to keep horn round and in shape all the way?

You can definitely give a rounded belly and re-glue sinews in side of the bow again. for me the best instruments are patience, human eye, good files, but in the finish - sandpaper glued to a wooden block with the corresponding concave profile. I like the symmetrical bending of your bow. I want to see the picture in full draw.

Seems nice. I think that a more rectangular cross section is better than a half-round one (more uniform distribution of stress, better mass to draw weight ratio): don't worry about that.

Thanks, Alessi and Pazuzu.

So simple thing didn`t came to my head. Wooden block whit correspondin shape!!! (I wont remove sinew from sides anymore... or I do if I really have to...)

Alessi, I have to say, in Adams book; he always remaind to keep belly round... Why is so, if...
Are you sure, rectangular cross section work even better?
In the end of that Adam`s book is told about draw weight ratio things, but I haven`t read those articles so well. So I don`t know about that area very much. I just want avoid poisson effect.

As you can see, and I can see it now too, I am also worried about those low tip angles... Bow have been few times strung (whit tepeliks), but it`s badly unstable and those low angles in tips section does not help that thing at all.

And one more thing. What is good way to get horn surface hard and shainy/glossy? (Haven?t found that from Adam`s book)

Just scarpin` it and then whit wax?

And because those low angles in tips I have new project.
For me it`s The real Otoman bow.
There we can see difference between those brothers so far.

You can buy concave cabinet scrapers. These are very useful for the belly shape.
You can remove sinew on the sides of the belly now if needed to keep rounded belly shape and then re-sinew these areas when the bow is tillered.
A rounded belly compared to a flat belly at the same thickness.
The differences are that a flat belly can take more compression with less damage to the materials due to the larger surface area however a rounded belly is better if the material can take the stress because it is obviously lighter in weight than the flat belly.
If the material isn't great in compression = flat belly
If the material is elastic enough and able to handle the compression = rounded belly.
The instability can seem too much at this stage but try to see where the twist etc are and work on them with heat. Keep at it and you should get there.
If you can see any twist when the bow is on the teplics correct it before trying to string it.
To make the horn shiny you need to use sucessively finer tools.
File - scraper - 120grit through to 2000 grit sand paper. It can then also be burnished and buffed. It can be made to gleam!!
Good luck.

For the final polish on the horn, you can use jeweller's rouge or another fine adhesive on a felt pad. Referring to Adam's book again, you could finish the horn with a clear varnish. However, I would wait until the bow had been tested, shot and adjusted before doing any of the final finishing.

Finally I get some answers...

Thanks a lot Bede and Mike.

Now I have clear plan to continue whit belly. Shape will be quite flat.
And, Mike, sure I will test my bow for half year before any finishing.
That varnish thing haven`t came to my eyes in Adams book. I have to take a better second look.

And now, some more, because somebody are listening... and writing back.

I have heated the unstable places about 10 minutes (max 50C) over electric heater. And then quickly put bow to stress little bit over and waited few hours. So far, maybe seven-eight times...
Maybe some good thing have happened, but not enough. Sholud I heat it for longer time?

You can heat for longer than 10 minutes, but absolutely at no more than 50deg (if the humidity is high enough, the glue vcan melt in the bow above that). Your bow should be very stable once finished, since the string does not touch the tips below the nocks. The reflex in the sals will make it a fast bow.

Adam

Ok, finally something happens here in far North. Snow is melted and shooting is started...

Heat tillering is amazing when I find the way to do it right. In the end, no twist at all!!! Wow. In whole process, I learn to use fish glue. My matching grooves are working... oh, la laa.
Now I have what I dreamed, my first, shootable, "kind of Turkish bow"...
That was the good news.

Bad news tells us it?s not very fast bow. It also quite weak and lazy one. I call it "lazy bastard".
Maybe somethin around 40lbs.
I use very short draw, about 23 inches. That`s just my "North american indian style" to shoot. (picture) Hard to learn longer draw.

I am happy it`s workin`, but unhappy to results. My sinew backed bows (blackfoot and nez perce tribes style, yew and ash whit sinew) are much faster and more efficient ones. (And those were also simple, faster, easier to do, maybe two months and ready to shoot...)
Anyway, first Turkish one in Finland is done. I have started the another one. Of course!

Ok, what I did wrong?
I was working too hard in tillerin` process and finally in bright light I could see lightly the maple grooves through horn belly in kasan eye section...
So, the grooves are 2mm deep and there is maybe 0,6-1mm horn still on grooves, but anyway, horn is now too thin in kasan eye.
I use to measure for while where I am going whit thickness, but that accident just happened. And you know, another side heavier and soon the another, and so it goes...
I didn`t trust to materials enough (for me new: fish glue and horn) and my carpenter skills... I had all the time feelin` it will broke in pieces.
And also the bent should be more close to grip than in kasan eye are? Am I right? Done is done.

I am just wondering is there any idea to make one more sinew layer over kasan eye area? And then try to move bending area to middle of sal.
Also kasan is little bit too heavy, I think.
Whit that artificial respiration it can probably shoot better...?

What you think?

Something +20 inch draw...

i like it, but i think your next several inches of draw would be best to come from the inner sal portion, closer to the handle. essentially extend the bend you already have and take some pressure off the hinging areas

Yes, that`s what I thought to do if I continue whit this "lazy bastard".

Anyway, is it good idea at all to cover "the hing/kasan eye area"/ whit one extra layer of sinew?
I mean, is it worth of trying...?

too small angle between "tip" and " kasan" . Such model have stacking effect and poor energy storage, so will be slow. But working hornbow is allways succes, congrats

Yes your bow appears to be bending in only a small section of the limbs. You could try adding sinew to this area but you may have problems with it delaminating - it would have to feather perfectly and also the area to be glued to would need to be absolutely clean. Still the layer would run out in the middle of sal, once it was bending correctly I would be scared of the strands lifting.
It may be better to reduce the horn in the sal area until you have a better tiller and then sinew the whole bow (maybe not kasans) with another layer. However adding sinew won't add too much draw weight. It may be a better idea to just concentrate on your next bow.

You can make another bow out of this one; cut about half of the limbs and splice in (V-splice) two new all-wood siyahs, shaped whichever way you like. The V-splice can be wrapped with sinew for strength (not always necessary I found if well done and the bow is not too strong) and the new bow re-tillered.

Adam

Could the lazy cast depend on that the bending sections are now little bit too far away from handle section?

Could the lazy cast can be explained also that Menna did not bring the tips together at all or not very close to each other during the seasoning process, tips being rather far away from each other?