Tiller advice please
Last year I thought that I must absolutely have a Crimean-Tatar bow. From earlier when I was still thinking I absolutely need a Korean bow I still had a bamboo core intended for the second try (assuming there would be plenty of mistakes in the first) left, so I just used the heat gun to add a kasan eye bend and used some thin laths to quickly laminate siyahs. I didn't get enough good length from the horns I had so I added additional wood in the kasan area. I used a modern glue so I can be absolutely sure it won't pop off. Next time I will get longer horns and also reduce the kasan length.
It worked so far. Last time I checked the draw weight was about 65# at 32" (the picture shows 28"), but it certainly less now after some more adjustments by scraping. I am not sure how to proceed with the tiller. It looks off somehow but I can't put my finger on it. Maybe the lower/right limb needs to bend more in the few inches next to the kasan eye. I am grateful for any good advice!
I scraped the horn at the kasan eyes to make them bend. As you can see in the unbraced picture (taken right after drawing a couple times), one of the limbs opened up more. What should I do about that? I am inclined to ignore it.
Regards,
Daniel
It worked so far. Last time I checked the draw weight was about 65# at 32" (the picture shows 28"), but it certainly less now after some more adjustments by scraping. I am not sure how to proceed with the tiller. It looks off somehow but I can't put my finger on it. Maybe the lower/right limb needs to bend more in the few inches next to the kasan eye. I am grateful for any good advice!
I scraped the horn at the kasan eyes to make them bend. As you can see in the unbraced picture (taken right after drawing a couple times), one of the limbs opened up more. What should I do about that? I am inclined to ignore it.
Regards,
Daniel
very nice bow !
the tiller is fine or ?
kasan eyes are not flexible in crimean tatar bows
the amount of grip reflex is strong but will be found in some originals
the kasan eye angle may be lower and
the ears are more pointing fwd
but who cares if it was not made according to a specific bow
dont know how stable your kasan is
maybe you can reduce weight by scraping some wood and its still stable
the tiller is fine or ?
kasan eyes are not flexible in crimean tatar bows
the amount of grip reflex is strong but will be found in some originals
the kasan eye angle may be lower and
the ears are more pointing fwd
but who cares if it was not made according to a specific bow
dont know how stable your kasan is
maybe you can reduce weight by scraping some wood and its still stable
I think your bow looks lovely and the tiller looks good. Oh and your cat seems cute.
It does not seem to be anywhere full draw judging by the angles of the tips. The shape looks very good.
I still don't have this "done!!"-feeling, but today the photo looks good to me, too. Since noone had any objections I will move on to shooting some arrows. Great!
Uli, I was not aware that kasan eye is supposed to be stiff. Why is that?
I also think that less grip reflex would have been a good idea. Adam shows a core with very strong setback in his book, so I didn't want to skimp on it. I'm ok with it though because I can still achieve the draw length that I want. I am only slightly annoyed that I didn't look in the Grayson collection book. There is such a nice picture of a Crimean-Tatar bow where I could have copied the angles and the kasan length.
Feather, thank you! We have three cats and they are always very exited about sinew backings. When I shoo them away they are usually back in the picture by the time I have regained the position to take the picture.
Bede, no it's not. I had this 28" arrow at hand from trying new thumb rings with a lighter bow that doesn't draw further. I attached a new picture with a longer draw (close to 32"). I have drawn the bow to 33" on the tillering tree several times. The siyahs were practically straight, so I think that this is probably the maximum draw. This is fine because drawing to the ear with the thumb will probably lead to a 33" draw. I have not measured it yet.
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Uli, I was not aware that kasan eye is supposed to be stiff. Why is that?
I also think that less grip reflex would have been a good idea. Adam shows a core with very strong setback in his book, so I didn't want to skimp on it. I'm ok with it though because I can still achieve the draw length that I want. I am only slightly annoyed that I didn't look in the Grayson collection book. There is such a nice picture of a Crimean-Tatar bow where I could have copied the angles and the kasan length.
Feather, thank you! We have three cats and they are always very exited about sinew backings. When I shoo them away they are usually back in the picture by the time I have regained the position to take the picture.
Bede, no it's not. I had this 28" arrow at hand from trying new thumb rings with a lighter bow that doesn't draw further. I attached a new picture with a longer draw (close to 32"). I have drawn the bow to 33" on the tillering tree several times. The siyahs were practically straight, so I think that this is probably the maximum draw. This is fine because drawing to the ear with the thumb will probably lead to a 33" draw. I have not measured it yet.
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Very cool bow! I have not looked much into the shape of these bows, but I am a little surprised about the shortness of the bending sections. They look very well tillered though!
With the longer arrow, the bow looks very good. I can see that the lower limb is not bending as much as the upper, but when you shoot the bow you will find if this is a problem. Composite bows are sometimes surprisingly forgiving and other times frustratingly touchy.
Gratuliere! Beeindruckende Arbeit!
Gratulation! Impressive work!
Peter
Gratulation! Impressive work!
Peter
That looks very good! If you going for efficiency I might remove some wood from the siyahs but I petrified to do that on a composite bow personally. Yeah my cats gets into all my bow pics! They seem very interested in all the interest one is placing on this object. They love sniffing sinew and may chew it a bit but they don't eat it....
Thanks a lot!
Kviljo, I have only recently seen pictures of bows made by Lukas Nowotny and they look much more "bow-like". At the time I made the core I did not realize the long kasan and the setback would lead to this short bending sections that I found so distracting. If you hold the bow slightly different, one peak of the sal will be elevated above the other and it will look weird, even though the distance between sal peak and the string is almost the same in both limbs. That is probably also what fooled me on the tillering tree.
I also intend to reduce the kasan thickness. I am not sure by how much. I will not change the width because I am glad that the string is close to the center position and I want it to remain that way. The mass is 510 g. I don't know what it is supposed to be, but I think for the draw weight of 65# at 32" this is more than it should be.
Regards,
Daniel
Kviljo, I have only recently seen pictures of bows made by Lukas Nowotny and they look much more "bow-like". At the time I made the core I did not realize the long kasan and the setback would lead to this short bending sections that I found so distracting. If you hold the bow slightly different, one peak of the sal will be elevated above the other and it will look weird, even though the distance between sal peak and the string is almost the same in both limbs. That is probably also what fooled me on the tillering tree.
I also intend to reduce the kasan thickness. I am not sure by how much. I will not change the width because I am glad that the string is close to the center position and I want it to remain that way. The mass is 510 g. I don't know what it is supposed to be, but I think for the draw weight of 65# at 32" this is more than it should be.
Regards,
Daniel
Daniel,
you bow is that of a skilled hornbowyer.
a long draw is supposedly a general characteristic of the "crimean tatar bows".
Adam Karpowicz examined several crimean tatar bows and came to the conclusion that the kasan eye is usually non-bending (unlike in turkish bows).
reason ? these bows are in general larger and more like "stable warbows" than "small flightbows", not needing a flexible kasan eye.
however if you visit the T?rckische Cammer in Dresden you will find almost exclusively "crimean tatar" bows (with grip reflex and string bridges), so its probably wrong to call all these "crimean tatar" as they were merely "ottoman" like the others, and there are also small ones..
PS: can someone here pls give a reference to the length of "crimean tatar" arrows from an original ??
you bow is that of a skilled hornbowyer.
a long draw is supposedly a general characteristic of the "crimean tatar bows".
Adam Karpowicz examined several crimean tatar bows and came to the conclusion that the kasan eye is usually non-bending (unlike in turkish bows).
reason ? these bows are in general larger and more like "stable warbows" than "small flightbows", not needing a flexible kasan eye.
however if you visit the T?rckische Cammer in Dresden you will find almost exclusively "crimean tatar" bows (with grip reflex and string bridges), so its probably wrong to call all these "crimean tatar" as they were merely "ottoman" like the others, and there are also small ones..
PS: can someone here pls give a reference to the length of "crimean tatar" arrows from an original ??
Congratulations on a very nice bow! I hope my attempt is going to work out as nice as yours.
Did you let it season for a year and how much reflex while seasoning?
Can't wait to try mine, but I have to wait..
Did you let it season for a year and how much reflex while seasoning?
Can't wait to try mine, but I have to wait..
I think in my case it was probably still a good idea to have the kasan eye bend because the sals came out too short. I don't know any originals, but Adam mentions 34 inches draw for the Crimean-Tatar bows. I have tried such a long draw with a Korean bow, but I was not happy with it. To achieve the longer draw I need to draw lower, close to the shoulder than the ear (like the Koreans do as far as I know). Because of the change in angle between line of sight and the arrow I did not hit anything. I have been away from archery for a significant time now, maybe time has erased my familiar angle and I can try it again.
Good luck with your bow, Alex! I was too impatient to wait longer, seasoning time was only two and a half months. I applied the sinews in two layers and I estimate that in the final stage the tips were about 30cm apart. You can tell from the unbraced shape that all the sinew reflex was lost.
Daniel
Good luck with your bow, Alex! I was too impatient to wait longer, seasoning time was only two and a half months. I applied the sinews in two layers and I estimate that in the final stage the tips were about 30cm apart. You can tell from the unbraced shape that all the sinew reflex was lost.
Daniel
Good looking bow, Daniel.You dont use thumbring ?
I do and I think that I have finally made one that does not hurt anywhere, but I still lack the strength to draw this bow with the thumb.
I know this problem... Quite a different thing to have the back muscles to draw a bow and to have a thumb/lock sufficiently strong for it.
So you have this bow to spare, haven't you? :twisted:Daniel T. wrote:
I do and I think that I have finally made one that does not hurt anywhere, but I still lack the strength to draw this bow with the thumb.
It is a good one, congratulations!
Hi. Daniel!
Congratulations it is very nice bow. Can you tell me how long is the horn plates. It appears that they do not cover all Kasan. Is it true? It is only on sal and not more it makes sance to me - very logic.
Congratulations it is very nice bow. Can you tell me how long is the horn plates. It appears that they do not cover all Kasan. Is it true? It is only on sal and not more it makes sance to me - very logic.
The bow measures 36cm from the center of the grip to the kasan eye. The horns are about 50 cm in length, but the parts that extend beyond the kasan eye are very thin. There were deep cracks so I had to reduce to the horn thickness in the kasan a lot to remove the cracks. I added wood for thickness. In retrospect I could have done it in reverse order to have the horn on the outside, but it doesn't really matter because these sections will be painted anyway.
Regards,
Daniel
Regards,
Daniel
Thanks!
A very nice bow indeed! You said you used a modern glue. Can I ask what it was exactly? I'm using hide glue, but I was under the impression that modern glues were not flexible enough.... But what ever you used seems to be holding up pretty well!
Jakob
Jakob