Chahar Kham
Dear good people at ATARN,
my name is Sasha and I have been reading this forum and learning a lot.
Recently I have developed an urge to make a bow of my own and I would like to base it on the lines of chahar kham or sind bow. That shape appeals to me for several reasons and I would like to develop a form to make fiberglass bow as well as horn/sinew (somewhat later). Only reference i have for now is few pictures that I have found on net and in the Grayson's book. I would like to ask if you could share more info (whoever has more info at hand) on the bow. I have found a reference to Elgood's "Islamic arms and armour" but I cannot trace the book easily and ones that I have found have prices that equals the price of new bow.
I could speculate (since i dont know how to interpolate) some basic dimensions but i am afraid of failure.
What are the proportions of siyah and kasan to working limb? What is the size of grip and how far it could be set back before it makes bow instable and prone to breaking? How much deflex and reflex?
This questions make my nights sleepless (because I am reading ATARN).
I would appreciate every bit of info that I could get so I will be one step closer to the bow. I have to say that I am not aiming at exact replica but I would like to deduce proportions from the existing bow than to start from scratch especially since this would be my first (hopefully not the last) bow.
thank you
Sasha
my name is Sasha and I have been reading this forum and learning a lot.
Recently I have developed an urge to make a bow of my own and I would like to base it on the lines of chahar kham or sind bow. That shape appeals to me for several reasons and I would like to develop a form to make fiberglass bow as well as horn/sinew (somewhat later). Only reference i have for now is few pictures that I have found on net and in the Grayson's book. I would like to ask if you could share more info (whoever has more info at hand) on the bow. I have found a reference to Elgood's "Islamic arms and armour" but I cannot trace the book easily and ones that I have found have prices that equals the price of new bow.
I could speculate (since i dont know how to interpolate) some basic dimensions but i am afraid of failure.
What are the proportions of siyah and kasan to working limb? What is the size of grip and how far it could be set back before it makes bow instable and prone to breaking? How much deflex and reflex?
This questions make my nights sleepless (because I am reading ATARN).
I would appreciate every bit of info that I could get so I will be one step closer to the bow. I have to say that I am not aiming at exact replica but I would like to deduce proportions from the existing bow than to start from scratch especially since this would be my first (hopefully not the last) bow.
thank you
Sasha
welcome !
how about to start with this one:
http://www.atarn.org/letters/ltr_nov01.htm
you may also try to get this article:
"The chahar-kham or 'four-curved' bow of India
by Edward McEwen
:wink:
how about to start with this one:
http://www.atarn.org/letters/ltr_nov01.htm
you may also try to get this article:
"The chahar-kham or 'four-curved' bow of India
by Edward McEwen
:wink:
Thank you for welcoming me.
Well, in my hastiness I overlooked website. I was rather immersed in reading forum discussions. Thank you for direction.
I was aiming on this thingies (hopefully i am not breaking any forum rules)
http://anthromuseum.missouri.edu/grayso ... ndbow.shtm
http://www.archerylibrary.com/books/far ... h-bow.html
As I said that's about it that I can find. Not much. Nice curves but somewhat dangerous. If I get measurements wrong or make curve to curvy, stress will be to much for bow to handle.
I was hunting for that article but not to be found. Not on any academical site that I know of. And book is to costly to get at the moment.
Thank you again
Sasha
Well, in my hastiness I overlooked website. I was rather immersed in reading forum discussions. Thank you for direction.
I was aiming on this thingies (hopefully i am not breaking any forum rules)
http://anthromuseum.missouri.edu/grayso ... ndbow.shtm
http://www.archerylibrary.com/books/far ... h-bow.html
As I said that's about it that I can find. Not much. Nice curves but somewhat dangerous. If I get measurements wrong or make curve to curvy, stress will be to much for bow to handle.
I was hunting for that article but not to be found. Not on any academical site that I know of. And book is to costly to get at the moment.
Thank you again
Sasha
dont worry, composite bow limbs can stand this
with fiberglass I am not sure
just try
with fiberglass I am not sure
just try
McEwen's article on the chahar kham bow in Elgood is very good since it shows cross sections and the positions of the splices. These bows sometimes have multiple sinew ridges on the back of the bending part of the limbs. One, two and three ridges can be used. The horn is applied in a single piece for each limb, the full width of the limb. The core can have up to seven pieces: one for the grip, two for the bending sections of the arms, two for the ridged sections of the ears and two for the tips of the ears. The belly is rounded and the back is slightly convex, plus it may have ridges of sinew. These can be seen is some of the photographs of these bows. They vary is height, but are usually about 3 mm.
The bows are made in several sizes; the very longest ones come from Afghanistan and are almost as long as Manchu bows. You might be able to track down a copy of Elgood in a university library and copy the chapter you are interested in.
The complex nature of the ears of this bow would make it difficult to make efficient with fibreglass laminated bending sections. There would be a lot of stress at the handle to limb transitions and also at the limb to ear transitions. In order to make it moderately efficient, you would have to minimise the weight of the ears.
I remember looking at the bows in the Grayson Collection and they struck me as being very solidly made despite their decorative nature. There are quite a few good pictures of chahar kham bows on the web and they are worth chasing down.
Incidentally, the work we have been doing on Persian archery manuscripts has revealed that chahar kham was a type of Persian bow too. So far we have only found literary references, but it would not surprise me if one turned up in a museum somewhere. As yet, I do not know how close to a Sind bow it was. "Four-curved" is a pretty general description.
The bows are made in several sizes; the very longest ones come from Afghanistan and are almost as long as Manchu bows. You might be able to track down a copy of Elgood in a university library and copy the chapter you are interested in.
The complex nature of the ears of this bow would make it difficult to make efficient with fibreglass laminated bending sections. There would be a lot of stress at the handle to limb transitions and also at the limb to ear transitions. In order to make it moderately efficient, you would have to minimise the weight of the ears.
I remember looking at the bows in the Grayson Collection and they struck me as being very solidly made despite their decorative nature. There are quite a few good pictures of chahar kham bows on the web and they are worth chasing down.
Incidentally, the work we have been doing on Persian archery manuscripts has revealed that chahar kham was a type of Persian bow too. So far we have only found literary references, but it would not surprise me if one turned up in a museum somewhere. As yet, I do not know how close to a Sind bow it was. "Four-curved" is a pretty general description.