Need advice before I start...
I own an Assyrian horn composite from TradGang's annual bow swap, but I'm wanting to make my own horn composite. I have a few issues, though. My draw length to the corner of my mouth is 36-37", and a draw to my ear is close to 39". This is because I was born with Marfan syndrome, and one of the skeletal deformities is overly long limbs. I make most of my bows for this reason. Pursuant to my condition, I also spend most of my time in a wheelchair since my hips are worn out at 33. I can still draw my fiberglass static recurve to 76#@36".
I've been drawn to asymmetric bows since I have the chair to contend with. They help me deal with clearance around my legs. I'm unsure as to how to proceed with bow design, as I have a very large draw and the chair to contend with.
While my ultimate goal is a Scythian bow, I'm thinking something like a Zargalant or Moscheveya Balka, with a shorter lower limb. I know many of them were mildly asymmetric, but I'm thinking something like three or more inches. Something like the Grozer Hun bow, but built right. I have Adam's book, a few pounds of sinew, and all the time in the world since I was forcibly retired due to health. I'm unsure on core wood-it's hard to get green wood unless I cut it, and I have to have assistance to do so. I've wondered about vertical bamboo flooring, but I'm unsure of its bending qualities. I'm also wondering if any siyahs were entirely bone or antler, or merely laminated. I have no issue working the materials, I'm just curious.
I've rambled enough now, I'll let you guys tell me what you think.
I've been drawn to asymmetric bows since I have the chair to contend with. They help me deal with clearance around my legs. I'm unsure as to how to proceed with bow design, as I have a very large draw and the chair to contend with.
While my ultimate goal is a Scythian bow, I'm thinking something like a Zargalant or Moscheveya Balka, with a shorter lower limb. I know many of them were mildly asymmetric, but I'm thinking something like three or more inches. Something like the Grozer Hun bow, but built right. I have Adam's book, a few pounds of sinew, and all the time in the world since I was forcibly retired due to health. I'm unsure on core wood-it's hard to get green wood unless I cut it, and I have to have assistance to do so. I've wondered about vertical bamboo flooring, but I'm unsure of its bending qualities. I'm also wondering if any siyahs were entirely bone or antler, or merely laminated. I have no issue working the materials, I'm just curious.
I've rambled enough now, I'll let you guys tell me what you think.
Hi Edward -- Ken Hulme here in Florida.
No offense intended, but I found your medical problem interesting; I hadn't realized such a thing existed.
You know of course, that you don't need to draw to mouth or ear. Many of the earlier peoples only drew to the breast.
If you Search here on Zargalant, you'll find a excellent series by Adam Karpowicz on his 'quick and dirty' reconstruction, and other's comments. Turns out they weren't particularly asymmetrical after all. Why not contact Adam directly to see what ideas he might for your situation.
There's a good article about the Moscheveva Balka bow here:
http://www.atarn.org/mongolian/moshcheveya_balka.htm
and his plans are here:
http://www.freebirdarchery.com/images/M ... s%20v2.pdf
But I'm not sure it was asymmetrical by several inches either.
I love Scythians but they aren't easy. I've tried. Even my wood-fiberglass composite was complicated (but it works). If that's what you like, I say go for it. Talk to Jack Farrell over in Texas. He's the most successful asymmetrical Scythian builder I know of. And he's happy to help folks. If you check out the ATARN group on Facebook, he's posting there almost every day. Just the other day he posted the plans he used to build his seriously asymmetric Scythian...
You said: "I'm unsure on core wood-it's hard to get green wood unless I cut it, and I have to have assistance to do so. I've wondered about vertical bamboo flooring, but I'm unsure of its bending qualities. I'm also wondering if any siyahs were entirely bone or antler, or merely laminated."
I know of several people who have used real bamboo - not the laminated flooring - for Balka and Magyar style 'flat limbed' bows with siyahs. For that style I don't see why the flooring wouldn't work, except for possible glue adherence issues.
I've never seen or heard of solid bone/horn siyahs. They would be very heavy. Laminated gives you greater strength and lighter weight.
No offense intended, but I found your medical problem interesting; I hadn't realized such a thing existed.
You know of course, that you don't need to draw to mouth or ear. Many of the earlier peoples only drew to the breast.
If you Search here on Zargalant, you'll find a excellent series by Adam Karpowicz on his 'quick and dirty' reconstruction, and other's comments. Turns out they weren't particularly asymmetrical after all. Why not contact Adam directly to see what ideas he might for your situation.
There's a good article about the Moscheveva Balka bow here:
http://www.atarn.org/mongolian/moshcheveya_balka.htm
and his plans are here:
http://www.freebirdarchery.com/images/M ... s%20v2.pdf
But I'm not sure it was asymmetrical by several inches either.
I love Scythians but they aren't easy. I've tried. Even my wood-fiberglass composite was complicated (but it works). If that's what you like, I say go for it. Talk to Jack Farrell over in Texas. He's the most successful asymmetrical Scythian builder I know of. And he's happy to help folks. If you check out the ATARN group on Facebook, he's posting there almost every day. Just the other day he posted the plans he used to build his seriously asymmetric Scythian...
You said: "I'm unsure on core wood-it's hard to get green wood unless I cut it, and I have to have assistance to do so. I've wondered about vertical bamboo flooring, but I'm unsure of its bending qualities. I'm also wondering if any siyahs were entirely bone or antler, or merely laminated."
I know of several people who have used real bamboo - not the laminated flooring - for Balka and Magyar style 'flat limbed' bows with siyahs. For that style I don't see why the flooring wouldn't work, except for possible glue adherence issues.
I've never seen or heard of solid bone/horn siyahs. They would be very heavy. Laminated gives you greater strength and lighter weight.
Regarding the bone tips, on bows found complete they are usually laminated with the two strips in contact from just below the nocks to the tips. I don't believe horn was used very often for these types of tips because is is not as stiff as wood and even less so than bone or antler. There are some tips from Chinese excavations that were split from a single piece of bone almost as far as the nock.
Shooting from a wheel chair with a long draw is a challenge, but something like a larger version of the Korean target bow would have the draw length and the clearance you need. The western Scythian draw is another alternative with the hand drawn until it touches the left side of the chest. You are basically drawing the length of your left arm plus three inches. Since aiming in this style is done by turning at the waist, it might have problems. The right arm is pressed against the chest for stability and as a method of anchoring.
A proper Assyrian bow with an angular profile and roll over tips would work too since the draw on angular bows is spectacularly long. The one I shot made by David Betteridge was easy to draw 32 inches and it was based on one of the small bows of Tutankhamen.
Shooting from a wheel chair with a long draw is a challenge, but something like a larger version of the Korean target bow would have the draw length and the clearance you need. The western Scythian draw is another alternative with the hand drawn until it touches the left side of the chest. You are basically drawing the length of your left arm plus three inches. Since aiming in this style is done by turning at the waist, it might have problems. The right arm is pressed against the chest for stability and as a method of anchoring.
A proper Assyrian bow with an angular profile and roll over tips would work too since the draw on angular bows is spectacularly long. The one I shot made by David Betteridge was easy to draw 32 inches and it was based on one of the small bows of Tutankhamen.
Hi
What about a hunnish type asimmetrical bow with short lower arm? It schould work in wheelchair. For a first bow it' s a bit easyer to make, than a turkish or much more than a scytian.
Hard to choose the best solution.
For the extreme long draw, may the crimean tatar bows the best.
Think the korean type is too sensitive.
Easy to break it.
What about a hunnish type asimmetrical bow with short lower arm? It schould work in wheelchair. For a first bow it' s a bit easyer to make, than a turkish or much more than a scytian.
Hard to choose the best solution.
For the extreme long draw, may the crimean tatar bows the best.
Think the korean type is too sensitive.
Easy to break it.
Hi
What about a hunnish type asimmetrical bow with short lower arm? It schould work in wheelchair. For a first bow it' s a bit easyer to make, than a turkish or much more than a scytian.
Hard to choose the best solution.
For the extreme long draw, may the crimean tatar bows the best.
Think the korean type is too sensitive.
Easy to break it.
What about a hunnish type asimmetrical bow with short lower arm? It schould work in wheelchair. For a first bow it' s a bit easyer to make, than a turkish or much more than a scytian.
Hard to choose the best solution.
For the extreme long draw, may the crimean tatar bows the best.
Think the korean type is too sensitive.
Easy to break it.
I've got a 64" static recurve pulling 80"@37", but I need something shorter. My Assyrian is lighter and bucks its string over 32". The asymmetrical hun bow sounds ideal. Is there a build log for such around here?
I Would make a hybrid bow.
A simple but practical one.
One piece core, with two different long siyah and V jointed tip. So the basic schould be an early mongolian bow. For that you doesn't have to deal with antler plates on the gripp and tips, like on Magyar or Hun bows.
Just make it a different form, with longer top and short bottom limb and tips.
It needs some calculations for the best size for your draw and sitting position etc.
You will need some light and dureable core and tip wood for that bow to reduce the weight.
Think arround 57-59 ntn schould works with a moderated gripp reflex.
Adam's book is a must! Contents lots of usefull information from horn bowyery.
Not from this kind of bows but the methods are near the same.
Botondbow made build alongs. Thats a good basic. (I prefer thicker core wood than that he use there.)
Planed to make build alongs. Hope will have more time to make some...
A simple but practical one.
One piece core, with two different long siyah and V jointed tip. So the basic schould be an early mongolian bow. For that you doesn't have to deal with antler plates on the gripp and tips, like on Magyar or Hun bows.
Just make it a different form, with longer top and short bottom limb and tips.
It needs some calculations for the best size for your draw and sitting position etc.
You will need some light and dureable core and tip wood for that bow to reduce the weight.
Think arround 57-59 ntn schould works with a moderated gripp reflex.
Adam's book is a must! Contents lots of usefull information from horn bowyery.
Not from this kind of bows but the methods are near the same.
Botondbow made build alongs. Thats a good basic. (I prefer thicker core wood than that he use there.)
Planed to make build alongs. Hope will have more time to make some...