First of all, I just want to say how much I love the scholarly, historical research and info I find on your sight.
I'm not only new traditional asian archery, I'm pretty much new to archery as a whole.
I got my Grozer Adult Scythian 60lb bow in december, and it's an absolute blast just learning how to shoot "off the knuckle" and without a nock on the string.
Here are a few question:
I'm shooting aluminum arrows because they are all I can find locally and affordably. The shop in town told me to go with Blackhawk 2413 arrows with I believe 100grain field tips.
First of all, I am breaking an arrow almost every time I got to the range! Once or so I heard the arrow strike the metal support holding the bale up. but the other times I just pull my arrow out of the bale and the tip in smashed back in, and the shaft is ripped open.
Other traditional archers at the range were surpised at my huge heavy arrows, demonstrated how far they are dropping with each shot compared to theirs. They said those arrows were way too big/heavy.
so I guess my questions are:
1.) Are these arrows too delicate and high-tech somehow? Too heavy?
2.) can someone recomend arrow for me at are not too expensive and longer lasting?
3.) This is more of a technique question?I'm not shooting with any nock on the back, just eyeing it up. Is shooting without a nock the authentic thing to do? (yeah, I know, I'm already using aluminum arrows). Does a nock even make sense if there is no arrow rest?
4.) is the step-through way of stringing the bow OK for it? I keep reading things on the net about how you should never do it, but I see on ATARN it looks pretty common.
Thanks for any advice out there.
Scott
Ron Jachim
You should think about driving to the traditional archery show at the Kalamazoo (Michigan) County Fairgrounds next weekend. There will be tons of bowyers and probably several fletchers there. I don't know the street price for purchasing arrows because I've been making my own for a while.
I only shoot wood or bamboo arrows so I can't speak to your high tech ones.
Stephen Selby
I suggest that you could go to 2117 for aluminum arrows. 2413 would be a bit massive.
As I remember, Csaba's Scythian is not a very big bow. It is more suitable for a short draw - say 28" to 30". Probably, your big arrows are not flying straight and that is causing the breakages. But if you hit stone or metal, any arrow will break. Use a soft, straw bale until you get accurate.
Beware for buying 'nice' wood arrows at the fairgrounds. They look nice; but they won't be as strong as aluminum. And I have had some poor experience at US fairground sales buying from so-called 'craftsmen' who are essentially sticking feathers onto pine dowels and calling them 'arrows'.
S
Romain
You could also try carbon arrows. They do not get crooked like aluminium and are stronger than wood. Also, they sound more like wood when they rattle.
Carbon Express Heritage 350 are amazingly tough and look somewhat like woodies.
jack farrell
I agree that it is very difficult to find appropriate arrows for traditional Asian Archery. Making them seems to be beyond almost everyones wildest imagination. Folks spend hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars on bows, yet feed those bows ammunition fit only for a hardware store.
Pine shafts, unless carefully selected, can be even dangerous to shoot. Rather, Port Orford Cedar has a better reputation. Ash, Sitka Spruce, Fir and others are to be found. Grozer sells arrows, if one could imagine paying $9 each plus shipping. A friend spent $100 on 10 vintage Japanese arrow bamboo shafts from Yumi archery, but when I weighed them, the weights varied as much as 4 grams, too much for a serious arrow set. The origional horn nocks could hardly be modified to accomodate a standard-type string.
Korean arrows would probably be a deal for $30 each or so. Japanese make student arrows for about $45 each. Competition arrows for much more.
But we all seem to draw the line that a compound bow is not Asian traditional, so why should we look at the ammunition made for those bows to be any different? And how can a market for good arrows develop if everyone is willing to shoot synthetic?
Try to obtain even one arrow made by an artist and you will never want to go back to plastic. And notice when you shoot that arrow how focused your shooting is.
There are many listings on ebay for cedar arrow makers. This one makes arrows with self nocks!! I do not know his work. -j-
If you are really adventurous, you could learn how to make your own arrows. I had a friend show me, but there are books and videos on the subject.
I started out buying cedar shafts, field points and fletching from a traditional archery company in northern Indiana. There are many companies on-line, but the company I use is 3 Rivers Archery.
They sell shafting spined to match your 60 lbs bow, and you can pick the weight of your points. This will help determine how heavy or light your arrows should be.
The great thing about making your own is the customization. You can pick the color of the fletching and cut the fletching to the shape you want. You can also stain the shafts.
I don't know how handy you are or how much time you can devote to the craft of arrow-making, but it is well worth it.
I've been doing this for a couple of years now and it has turned in to a rewarding hobby. I also just finished my first self bow and look forward to making some asian composites down the road.
One word of warning, cedar shafts do break much easier. That's the only heart-breaking thing about making your own. :wink:
Best of luck,
Derek
Derek Hobart
In response to your nocking question:
I don't know if it's traditional in asian archery, but I use a piece of waxed linen thread tied in a knot on my bowstring as a nocking point. It blends in with the bowstring and doesn't stand out like the brass ones you find on modern bows.
Derek
redhawk
hi, I would never even think about using alu- or carbonfibre-arrows for a traditional bow.
I?ve had best experiences with traditional made arrows, with wooden shafts or with bamboo-shafts.
It is true, every arrow has to be done very carefully and to be attuned to the bow. I guess some of you know the word: " to make a bow is easy, but to find the arrow for a bow is really difficult......."
I choose my wooden shafts very carefully (growthrings running through the whole length of the shaft,spine....1 year air-dried).After having had bad experiences with cedar too, I prefer northern pine and larch. Shafts must have same weight for a bow.
For the first shots with a new-made bow I use some testing-arrows, check the results and then I make the arrows, till I?ve found out the arrow, which fits the best.
Every following arrow for this bow has to be an exact copy of these "best arrows".
It is clear that there is an impact of the "individual shooting style" on the bow/arrow-interaction.
jonR
Go to these people tell them what and how you shoot and ask them to send you a "tuning" set. You usually get six shafts of varying spine wieghts. you make them up shoot and see what works best in your bow. Then order a dozen of that spine. http://www.rosecityarchery.com/ :D
GrahameA
Good Afternoon Scott
Sounds like an interesting issue.
First of all, I am breaking an arrow almost every time I got to the range! Once or so I heard the arrow strike the metal support holding the bale up. but the other times I just pull my arrow out of the bale and the tip in smashed back in, and the shaft is ripped open.
That is an interesting failure. Without seeing it or the butt I would hazard a guess that you are shooting into hard butts - something like stacked ceiling tiles, If that is case the easiest solution is go and shoot somewhere else.
What is more than likely happening is that arrow is being brought to stop so rapidly that the aluminium is failing. You are literally forcing the head back up the shaft.
Other traditional archers at the range were surpised at my huge heavy arrows, demonstrated how far they are dropping with each shot compared to theirs. They said those arrows were way too big/heavy.
Heavy overspined arrows may give you poor flight characteristics but they are unlike to be the cause of your problem
1.) Are these arrows too delicate and high-tech somehow? Too heavy?
They are strong. The target butt is stronger.
2.) can someone recomend arrow for me at are not too expensive and longer lasting?
If you problems is being caused by a rapid stop then be aware that if you move to wood arrows the issue will manifest itself in the form of arrows breaking or developing "softness" as the wood cell structure breaks down
Carbon arrows are stronger - and I have issues with them - will probably be able to withstand the impact but may be abraded by the butt material.
If you do move to Carbon arrows be aware of the problems associated with carbon splinters.
Port Orford Cedar whilst it may be popular is not the strongest arrow timber around. IMHO there are much better timbers. The biggest thing in its favour is the smell when it breaks.
Kwila/Merbau can be made into arrows and is much stronger - it is amazing how much abuse it can withstand. (Unfortunately it is also much heavier)
Silverwood Shafts out of Australia are very good - the are made from Silver Ash (aka Vibtorian Ash). Be aware they are significantly heavier than Port Orford.
I would look around for Sitka Spruce shafts.
Regards
Grahame
Simplistic solutions do not solve complex problems.
West
You could try making your own arrows from ash wood (fraxinus spp., especially fraxinus excelsior), split and turned. It's very strong, but also surprisingly light. Normally of very straight grain, and nice looking; ash also seems to grow in many places.
