The bow of Magyarhomorog
This bow was made according to the placement of the bone plates found in a X. century grave excavated near Magyarhomorog (23. grave). The excavation was performed in 1936 by Istv?n Dienes. The drawings of the position of the bone plates in the grave and the bone plates originate from L?szl? Kov?cs and G?bor Szőllősi.
There were 6 bone plates in the grave, as usual in case of Hungarian bows. The bow was placed unstringed in the grave.
The size of bone plates. Grip 12 cm, ears 24-25 cm.
The base of the bone plates of the ear and the two ends of the grip bone were scored.
The length of the upper limb 45 cm, lower limb 40 cm.
The angle of the upper ear to the upper limb 40 degree
The angle of the upper ear to the lower limb 35 degree
The angle of the limbs 165 degree
Total length of the bow 146 cm.
Distance between the two tips of the ears 136 cm.
The bow must be heavily used as this latter distance was 123 cm immediately after use and 106 cm on the resting bow.
It looked to me very odd to make a bow with different ear angles, so I reduced the angle of the upper ear also to 35 degree.
To tell the truth I do not like the asymmetry in this bow very much. I do not see a reason for it. The lower limb is to much stressed compared to the upper in this construction. Is it possible that the bone plates of the grip simply slipped by 2 cm to the side in the grave. This bow however is very similar to that of made and posted by Andrew earlier, which suggest that the asymmetry can be real. The possible movement of the bone plates in the grave questions the sense and validity of such reconstructions.
The bow pulls 60 pounds. In spite of this the bow looks unproportional that the limbs are to thin ( 1,2 cm) compared to the size of the grip and the base of the ear (3cm). This suggest that the arms were thicker (1,6-1,8 cm?) and the bow much stronger.
S?ndor
There were 6 bone plates in the grave, as usual in case of Hungarian bows. The bow was placed unstringed in the grave.
The size of bone plates. Grip 12 cm, ears 24-25 cm.
The base of the bone plates of the ear and the two ends of the grip bone were scored.
The length of the upper limb 45 cm, lower limb 40 cm.
The angle of the upper ear to the upper limb 40 degree
The angle of the upper ear to the lower limb 35 degree
The angle of the limbs 165 degree
Total length of the bow 146 cm.
Distance between the two tips of the ears 136 cm.
The bow must be heavily used as this latter distance was 123 cm immediately after use and 106 cm on the resting bow.
It looked to me very odd to make a bow with different ear angles, so I reduced the angle of the upper ear also to 35 degree.
To tell the truth I do not like the asymmetry in this bow very much. I do not see a reason for it. The lower limb is to much stressed compared to the upper in this construction. Is it possible that the bone plates of the grip simply slipped by 2 cm to the side in the grave. This bow however is very similar to that of made and posted by Andrew earlier, which suggest that the asymmetry can be real. The possible movement of the bone plates in the grave questions the sense and validity of such reconstructions.
The bow pulls 60 pounds. In spite of this the bow looks unproportional that the limbs are to thin ( 1,2 cm) compared to the size of the grip and the base of the ear (3cm). This suggest that the arms were thicker (1,6-1,8 cm?) and the bow much stronger.
S?ndor
the bow stringed
the ear
the grip
Sandor; A really super bow, you have been buisy. Is there hand shock from these bows? -j-
That is beautifly done. The bone plates give it a very artful touch. This is a bow I could never tire of looking at. :)
How many hours did this take too complete????
How many hours did this take too complete????
Thanks Jack
The bone plates of the ear are 30 gr each. Yes there is a hand shock, but not so big as one would think. The bow is not slow at all. It should be stronger to reduce the hand shock.
S?ndor
The bone plates of the ear are 30 gr each. Yes there is a hand shock, but not so big as one would think. The bow is not slow at all. It should be stronger to reduce the hand shock.
S?ndor
beautiful work !
Thimosabv
I also like very much the shape and pattern of the bone plates.
The bow was completed within a half year. It is difficult to judge how many hours it take. Furtunately I do not have to count it. I think roughly 50.
S?ndor
I also like very much the shape and pattern of the bone plates.
The bow was completed within a half year. It is difficult to judge how many hours it take. Furtunately I do not have to count it. I think roughly 50.
S?ndor
Sandor; Have you seen the decorated bone slats found by archaeologists? Have you ever thought of scrimshawing your bow's bone slats? -j-
I have noticed in bone plates excavated in other places than Hungary that the separate pieces touch just below the string nock so that the last part of each ear is just bone with no wood. This may have been a common construction technique.
The other thing that you might consider is making the string loops smaller. The modern reconstructions with long loops are based on bows with recurved ears rather than bows like yours. I tried changing the string construction on a Grozer bow and I feel it performs better. I haven't tested it for speed, but it definitely feels smoother. Surviving strinds from China have small loops ans so do wall paintings from the Tang Dynasty.
The bow is very handsome and you have done a good job.
The other thing that you might consider is making the string loops smaller. The modern reconstructions with long loops are based on bows with recurved ears rather than bows like yours. I tried changing the string construction on a Grozer bow and I feel it performs better. I haven't tested it for speed, but it definitely feels smoother. Surviving strinds from China have small loops ans so do wall paintings from the Tang Dynasty.
The bow is very handsome and you have done a good job.
String loops: yes, the Khotan bow, which is constructed like this one, was preserved with its original string. The loops are only big enough to insert the tips and fit in the nock, and they are wrapped in chamois leather.
There is some wood core between the tips of the bone plates, but it is very thin (about 1mm).
There is some wood core between the tips of the bone plates, but it is very thin (about 1mm).
Good looking bow. These bows could be excellent performers too, I have always been tempted to make one. You are right about the proportions - the knees seem a bit oversize in comparison with the limbs.
I was under the impression these bows had the bone plates all wrapped with sinew and bark. ?
Adam
I was under the impression these bows had the bone plates all wrapped with sinew and bark. ?
Adam
Sandor,
that is a beautiful bow, you should be proud of it.
What material is wrapped around the handle and base of siyahs?
that is a beautiful bow, you should be proud of it.
What material is wrapped around the handle and base of siyahs?
S?ndor
Great looking bow, beautifully made. It make me think that I should have used bone plates on my bows rather than using strips of wood. What type of bones did you use? Did you have any problems gluing them?
I wonder how common the asymmetric limb lengths was with the Magyar bows. It is not a feature that would be that easy to detect in the archaeological record. Both the Moshcheveya Balka bows had slightly asymmetric limb/siyah angles, but were fairly symmetrical in length. The river Gogops bow was asymmetrical in limb and siyah lengths, but was undated (I assume earlier).
Andrew
Great looking bow, beautifully made. It make me think that I should have used bone plates on my bows rather than using strips of wood. What type of bones did you use? Did you have any problems gluing them?
I wonder how common the asymmetric limb lengths was with the Magyar bows. It is not a feature that would be that easy to detect in the archaeological record. Both the Moshcheveya Balka bows had slightly asymmetric limb/siyah angles, but were fairly symmetrical in length. The river Gogops bow was asymmetrical in limb and siyah lengths, but was undated (I assume earlier).
Andrew
Jack
The bone plates were not decorated, there were only simple marks (tribal) on them. Some ear plates had one lengthwise ridge.
Bede
Unfortunately the lack of proper material makes it impossible to prepare the ears as you described.
The old bone plates were made probably from strait pieces of antler, which is almost impossible to get nowadays. I made them from cattle ribs, which are curved. If the plates are not perfectly the same strength, the ear will not be straight. That is why I left some wood in between the plates.
The string loops on this kind of bows can be made smaller if the brace height is higher or the angle of the ear is smaller. On the present construction if we reduce the size of the string loop the string will lie on the ear. This can result in the slippage of the string to the side and bow can be broken (this happened to me once).
Adam
I do not think the plates were covered by sinew or bark. Scoring is present only at the base of the plates and at the front edge, which latter was covered by sinew coming up on front of the ear.
Samuraiwarrior
I used simple shoemaker line soaked in glue to make the bandage.
Andrew
As mentioned I used cattle ribs, thinned down to 3 mm and boiled to straighten as much as possible. The inside is concave and scored lengthwise. During guleing I put a soft pine plate in between the bone and the clamps. The whole thing was heated before the final tightening of the clamps. It worked well.
Thanks to everyone for the nice and encouraging comments.
The bone plates were not decorated, there were only simple marks (tribal) on them. Some ear plates had one lengthwise ridge.
Bede
Unfortunately the lack of proper material makes it impossible to prepare the ears as you described.
The old bone plates were made probably from strait pieces of antler, which is almost impossible to get nowadays. I made them from cattle ribs, which are curved. If the plates are not perfectly the same strength, the ear will not be straight. That is why I left some wood in between the plates.
The string loops on this kind of bows can be made smaller if the brace height is higher or the angle of the ear is smaller. On the present construction if we reduce the size of the string loop the string will lie on the ear. This can result in the slippage of the string to the side and bow can be broken (this happened to me once).
Adam
I do not think the plates were covered by sinew or bark. Scoring is present only at the base of the plates and at the front edge, which latter was covered by sinew coming up on front of the ear.
Samuraiwarrior
I used simple shoemaker line soaked in glue to make the bandage.
Andrew
As mentioned I used cattle ribs, thinned down to 3 mm and boiled to straighten as much as possible. The inside is concave and scored lengthwise. During guleing I put a soft pine plate in between the bone and the clamps. The whole thing was heated before the final tightening of the clamps. It worked well.
Thanks to everyone for the nice and encouraging comments.
Sandor; An illustration from Cherkashenko, 1981. Finds from Hungary, fragmentary, their purpose debatible. My idea is that origional bows were sinew wrapped at the joints and the SINEWED parts only covered by birchbark, leaving the durable horn and bone exposed. Diagonal sinew wrapping with soft leg tendon would be smooth.
Hi!
This is my first post on this forum, so I want to say hello to ATARN crew.
Paku, Your bow inspired to make a magyar bow like this from Homorog. I have a one question to You : How is siyah made? (I mean V-splice, etc.)
Best regards
Jakub
This is my first post on this forum, so I want to say hello to ATARN crew.
Paku, Your bow inspired to make a magyar bow like this from Homorog. I have a one question to You : How is siyah made? (I mean V-splice, etc.)
Best regards
Jakub
Sandor , you are realy good craftsman, but i dont like this Grozer bows look. Sorry, but this heavy siah - limbs area is very heavy and robust, like laminate Grozers old disains. This heavy ends of limbs cause slower bow and handshock.If you more teach from old bows pics , this was better than see in thausends Grozer or Kasais disain variation.Vraping in this place is same non sence.Archers vraping limbs inly if have in this place problems. In Magyars mas produce bows is this vrapinngs only unnecessary +veight image too.
Jakubek
The siyahs are simply cut and V spliced (8cm). The sinew runs up till the string nock.
Dusan
The design is based on original bone plates, not on Grozer bows. The base of the bone plates covering the siyahs and both ends of grip bone plates were scored. This proves that these places were wrapped. I was asked to make this bow according to the original sizes of the bone plates. This made the bow not looking very good because of the very robust siyahs base. However this means that the limbs of the original bow were much thicker so the bow much stronger. Here in ATARN it was discussed that that time V splice was not used, the siyahs were only seated on the limbs. This explains why the bases of the siyahs were reinforced with wrapping. The same goes for the grip if the two separate pieces were used for the limb joined at the grip simply glued on the top of each other.
Usually I don?t use wrapping on my Hungarian bows ( see pictures) because I also feel that the bow looks and performs better without wrapping, but this way unfortunately they are not authentic.
S?ndor
The siyahs are simply cut and V spliced (8cm). The sinew runs up till the string nock.
Dusan
The design is based on original bone plates, not on Grozer bows. The base of the bone plates covering the siyahs and both ends of grip bone plates were scored. This proves that these places were wrapped. I was asked to make this bow according to the original sizes of the bone plates. This made the bow not looking very good because of the very robust siyahs base. However this means that the limbs of the original bow were much thicker so the bow much stronger. Here in ATARN it was discussed that that time V splice was not used, the siyahs were only seated on the limbs. This explains why the bases of the siyahs were reinforced with wrapping. The same goes for the grip if the two separate pieces were used for the limb joined at the grip simply glued on the top of each other.
Usually I don?t use wrapping on my Hungarian bows ( see pictures) because I also feel that the bow looks and performs better without wrapping, but this way unfortunately they are not authentic.
S?ndor
Paku i believe you , that your bone plates have in original-archeolgist dimensions. Question about V-splice or seatled siahs is still open. If you glued siahs in limbs vithout V-splice , than you maybe need vraping. From this point of viu is open old provokate question- why you hard work in this bow if you cant see his original qualitie in 60 lb ? Vith this big siahs and haevy siahs"eye" like you said you need much wider and thicker limbs- about 100-120 lb bow.I understand you dont pull that haevy bow. But i still dont understand people whu try construct original copie reconstruction and control all archeological finds, measurments , details - except strong heavy limbs. All work is non sence. If you dream shooting from this tipe of bow ,why no working on two bows ? One is detail reconstruction vith real strong limbs , another lighter variation vith adjustment details for good shooting value.
Sandor,
Both bone and antler can be heat straightened. It might be worthwhile to try this if you can get pieces of the appropriate length. The shorter string loops should not cause a problem if the belly side of the tips is rounded to centre the string. Brace height changes can be adjusted with a slightly longer string.
However, the bow looks good and I am sure that it performs well. My suggestions are only meant to see if the older designs work well. I am impressed by the level of skill I see on these pages.
Both bone and antler can be heat straightened. It might be worthwhile to try this if you can get pieces of the appropriate length. The shorter string loops should not cause a problem if the belly side of the tips is rounded to centre the string. Brace height changes can be adjusted with a slightly longer string.
However, the bow looks good and I am sure that it performs well. My suggestions are only meant to see if the older designs work well. I am impressed by the level of skill I see on these pages.
Wow!!! Great looking bow I love how you made it to the exact specifications found in history. My hat is off to your skill. I bet she is fun to shoot.