Pimp my bow
Hello all!
Just for a short introduction of myself: I come from Germany and my main occupation besides my job is roman re-enactment. Used to practice archery but had to skip this hobby due to severe time restrictions, a disgrace, I know
I am far from being an expert like so many others here so I can only ask for your patience.
In order to present a more appropriate bow to the public as roman archer I intent to obtain a standard Hungarian or Scythian from Grozer and provide it with bone or antler plates and horn backing. It would be nice if this "thing" after the treatment would still be able to shoot but if everything fails it might as well still look good.
Being somewhat unacquainted with such endevours my question is: has anybody tried this before? Some hint/guess what I will have to take into regard?
I figure to grind down the wood syahs to a reasonable thickness before applying the antler/bone and to use rather thin horn strips so they won't impact the movement too much (can't draw a 160lbs) . Is the linen(?) binding functionally important or will the bow still hold together after it's removed? i intent to replace the linen (?) cord with sinew binding. That ok?
Hu! Hope you don't laugh at me.
Regards!
F
Just for a short introduction of myself: I come from Germany and my main occupation besides my job is roman re-enactment. Used to practice archery but had to skip this hobby due to severe time restrictions, a disgrace, I know
I am far from being an expert like so many others here so I can only ask for your patience.
In order to present a more appropriate bow to the public as roman archer I intent to obtain a standard Hungarian or Scythian from Grozer and provide it with bone or antler plates and horn backing. It would be nice if this "thing" after the treatment would still be able to shoot but if everything fails it might as well still look good.
Being somewhat unacquainted with such endevours my question is: has anybody tried this before? Some hint/guess what I will have to take into regard?
I figure to grind down the wood syahs to a reasonable thickness before applying the antler/bone and to use rather thin horn strips so they won't impact the movement too much (can't draw a 160lbs) . Is the linen(?) binding functionally important or will the bow still hold together after it's removed? i intent to replace the linen (?) cord with sinew binding. That ok?
Hu! Hope you don't laugh at me.
Regards!
F
Frank,
I think that you could modify the ears of a Gr?zer bow successfully, but I doubt that you can apply a horn belly without having the bow break across the back.
With the ears, make sure that the nocks end up in the same relative position as the original bow to maintain its dynamic balance.
I think that you could modify the ears of a Gr?zer bow successfully, but I doubt that you can apply a horn belly without having the bow break across the back.
With the ears, make sure that the nocks end up in the same relative position as the original bow to maintain its dynamic balance.
Bede
regarding the horn belly: even if it was a really thin piece of horn? Why would the bow break or better where, didn't really get that. Do you mean e.g. at the grip?
As for the ears: i intend to retain the shape of the original syah and so, yes, of course the nocks will stay where they are
Thanx!
F
regarding the horn belly: even if it was a really thin piece of horn? Why would the bow break or better where, didn't really get that. Do you mean e.g. at the grip?
As for the ears: i intend to retain the shape of the original syah and so, yes, of course the nocks will stay where they are
Thanx!
F
Frank,
The addition of a layer of horn to the belly (inside curve of a strung bow) will throw extra stress onto the outer layers or back of the bow. When a bow maker contructs a bow, he or she tries to insure that the tension on the back of the bow matches the compression on the belly. By putting a later of horn on the belly of the bow, you would put the back under much more tension than that which it was meant to bear. This is why there are horn and sinew bows. Sinew is one of the few materials that can match horn's compression with an equal extension.
The addition of a layer of horn to the belly (inside curve of a strung bow) will throw extra stress onto the outer layers or back of the bow. When a bow maker contructs a bow, he or she tries to insure that the tension on the back of the bow matches the compression on the belly. By putting a later of horn on the belly of the bow, you would put the back under much more tension than that which it was meant to bear. This is why there are horn and sinew bows. Sinew is one of the few materials that can match horn's compression with an equal extension.
Thanx Bede, I got it! Never saw it that way but it absolutely makes sense... and I might add, that I already asked Grozer to send me an unfinished bow but this request was rejected stating that it would not work out and the bow would break with horn applied...but it feels safer to have a second opinion and ok, so then no hornbelly for me, I guess.
(That's what I meant at the top with me asking for patience :lol: )
(That's what I meant at the top with me asking for patience :lol: )
Frank
Have you considered the Grozer's Extra II models? These are more expensive but have a horn belly.
I would have thought that Grozer's Hunnic style bow would be more representive of the Roman era than the 8-10th century Magyar/Hungarian style (though Grozer does not do an Extra II Hun).
Andrew
Have you considered the Grozer's Extra II models? These are more expensive but have a horn belly.
I would have thought that Grozer's Hunnic style bow would be more representive of the Roman era than the 8-10th century Magyar/Hungarian style (though Grozer does not do an Extra II Hun).
Andrew
Andrew
actually I already checked several options including ordering a Scythian from Grozer with bone ears and horn belly, which is not officially sold but he would make one for me.
two reasons for not ordering: the cost in the first place and then the wish to make something myself; the bow would look less "machine made", which is most appropriate, because very many modern reconstructions are simply "to well made" because of the tools and exact gauges
but still you're right, I am nearly prepared to spending the money.
regarding the hunnic bow: that would be ab-so-lutely true for the late antique, but we deal with the late 1st, early 2nd century, no Huns anywhere near Rome by then (thanx Jupiter)
I'm not exactly sure with the Hungarian bows but the Scythian might be better; though from what I read (e.g. Coulston) the Sythian then would be somewhat to old for 1st century. I always tell people when presenting my hungarian bow that it is a Hungarian but that the "idea" or "concept" of the bow is representative fo a whole class of bows, even if their individual construction might differ in detail.
The whole issue (roman archery, 1st/2nd century ) is really vague and what we really have as proof is less enough to say that whole picture is a guess (anyway, I'd be glad to hear something else; e.g. heard of a roman quiver made of camel hide, never has been published, so it's more or less 2nd hand rumours).
next problem is: I have the one(!) publication which deals with the subject (J.C.Coulstons "roman archery equipment") but it's a low-quality copy and is a bit short of images.
At least I have the correct barbed trilobate tanged arrowheads the roman liked so much we find them in heaps. the rest is wild guessing. won't falter to admit!
Regards
F
actually I already checked several options including ordering a Scythian from Grozer with bone ears and horn belly, which is not officially sold but he would make one for me.
two reasons for not ordering: the cost in the first place and then the wish to make something myself; the bow would look less "machine made", which is most appropriate, because very many modern reconstructions are simply "to well made" because of the tools and exact gauges
but still you're right, I am nearly prepared to spending the money.
regarding the hunnic bow: that would be ab-so-lutely true for the late antique, but we deal with the late 1st, early 2nd century, no Huns anywhere near Rome by then (thanx Jupiter)
I'm not exactly sure with the Hungarian bows but the Scythian might be better; though from what I read (e.g. Coulston) the Sythian then would be somewhat to old for 1st century. I always tell people when presenting my hungarian bow that it is a Hungarian but that the "idea" or "concept" of the bow is representative fo a whole class of bows, even if their individual construction might differ in detail.
The whole issue (roman archery, 1st/2nd century ) is really vague and what we really have as proof is less enough to say that whole picture is a guess (anyway, I'd be glad to hear something else; e.g. heard of a roman quiver made of camel hide, never has been published, so it's more or less 2nd hand rumours).
next problem is: I have the one(!) publication which deals with the subject (J.C.Coulstons "roman archery equipment") but it's a low-quality copy and is a bit short of images.
At least I have the correct barbed trilobate tanged arrowheads the roman liked so much we find them in heaps. the rest is wild guessing. won't falter to admit!
Regards
F
Frank
It is possible that the Hunnic bow reached the Roman empire before the Huns arrived. Gad Rausing in "The Bow, Some Notes on its Origin and Development" mentions several Roman fort sites of the first and second centuries where bone siyah plates were found. Though Trajan's column shows more Scythian-shaped bows. If the dating of the finds is correct, I would guess that different units of auxiliaries used different bow types dependent on their origin.
The Yrzi bow was wrapped with fine sinew so would have had a waterproof cover over back and belly (missing on the artefact, probably birch bark or leather), so you need not go to the trouble of putting a horn belly on your bow.
Regards
Andrew
It is possible that the Hunnic bow reached the Roman empire before the Huns arrived. Gad Rausing in "The Bow, Some Notes on its Origin and Development" mentions several Roman fort sites of the first and second centuries where bone siyah plates were found. Though Trajan's column shows more Scythian-shaped bows. If the dating of the finds is correct, I would guess that different units of auxiliaries used different bow types dependent on their origin.
The Yrzi bow was wrapped with fine sinew so would have had a waterproof cover over back and belly (missing on the artefact, probably birch bark or leather), so you need not go to the trouble of putting a horn belly on your bow.
Regards
Andrew