How are arrows drawn out from hip-quivers?
I've uploaded some of the historical descriptions of hip-quivers in this thread.
The first picture is from 18th century Korea, depicting the poetry contest. As many can notice, the scholars in the picture are depicted having hip-quivers attached to their right side at fairly high angle. However, due to the picture's size, I couldn't upload it in this thread. Instead, I will write the source of it. (Source: http://www.sac.or.kr/eng/bows/184.html)
Second picture(18th century Korea) also describes Koreans with hip-quiver, with the arrow elevated at high angle. (Source: http://blog.empas.com/sosohi/read.htmla ... 8&c=814634 )
To me, Compared to the "Turkish" type hip quivers shown in the third and fourth illustrations, drawing out arrows from the Korean type hip-quivers seems harder, due to its high angle. However, since merely conjecturing with brain, and practicing "real" archery are quite different matter, I decided to ask to many experienced members of this forum, rather than just guessing all by myself.
Would drawing arrows from such a highly elevated hip-quiver possible without changing its original position?
The first picture is from 18th century Korea, depicting the poetry contest. As many can notice, the scholars in the picture are depicted having hip-quivers attached to their right side at fairly high angle. However, due to the picture's size, I couldn't upload it in this thread. Instead, I will write the source of it. (Source: http://www.sac.or.kr/eng/bows/184.html)
Second picture(18th century Korea) also describes Koreans with hip-quiver, with the arrow elevated at high angle. (Source: http://blog.empas.com/sosohi/read.htmla ... 8&c=814634 )
To me, Compared to the "Turkish" type hip quivers shown in the third and fourth illustrations, drawing out arrows from the Korean type hip-quivers seems harder, due to its high angle. However, since merely conjecturing with brain, and practicing "real" archery are quite different matter, I decided to ask to many experienced members of this forum, rather than just guessing all by myself.
Would drawing arrows from such a highly elevated hip-quiver possible without changing its original position?
From experience, the quiver must not have such a low angle (i.e. close to horizontal) that when going on horseback, the arrows might fall out or slap the quarters of the horse. Although the Koreans are on foot, their quivers are basically designed for horseback work.
Note that some horses are armoured or have heavy leather skirts between the rider's legs and the flank of the horse. This helps to prevent the horse from being distracted by unintended leg movements of the rider during battle. Such horses were ridden by neck-reining or voice or balance in the seat rather than using the leg.
Note that some horses are armoured or have heavy leather skirts between the rider's legs and the flank of the horse. This helps to prevent the horse from being distracted by unintended leg movements of the rider during battle. Such horses were ridden by neck-reining or voice or balance in the seat rather than using the leg.
Thank you for your reply, Mr. Selby.
I've once thought that arrows are pulled out from the quiver by stretching the drawing-arm to the back, with out turning the quiver to the front side.
However, I began to doubt whether this would be done smoothly when having such high-angled quivers such as the Korean one in this thread, and some of the Qing quivers.
Surely, there is an illustration depicting Qing archer drawing the arrow in the quiver by grasping the part nearest to the arrow tang, instead of the arrow's nock.
However, some of the Korean experts practicing martial arts on horseback - I do admire them. - say that such method would slow the speed of pulling, nocking, and firing the arrow. Instead, they say that turning the quiver to the front side of the archer's body would be plausible, so that the fletchings could also face toward the archer, and so the archer could swiftly draw the arrows. It could be such a pardon to ask such minor questions to such experts,
especially when the questioner is an ignorant teenage student like me.(-_- ;) Nevertheless, I would be glad if I could hear such opinion of the others.
I've once thought that arrows are pulled out from the quiver by stretching the drawing-arm to the back, with out turning the quiver to the front side.
However, I began to doubt whether this would be done smoothly when having such high-angled quivers such as the Korean one in this thread, and some of the Qing quivers.
Surely, there is an illustration depicting Qing archer drawing the arrow in the quiver by grasping the part nearest to the arrow tang, instead of the arrow's nock.
However, some of the Korean experts practicing martial arts on horseback - I do admire them. - say that such method would slow the speed of pulling, nocking, and firing the arrow. Instead, they say that turning the quiver to the front side of the archer's body would be plausible, so that the fletchings could also face toward the archer, and so the archer could swiftly draw the arrows. It could be such a pardon to ask such minor questions to such experts,
especially when the questioner is an ignorant teenage student like me.(-_- ;) Nevertheless, I would be glad if I could hear such opinion of the others.
I have made two Manchu style quivers and closely examined a real Korean quiver in the Grayson Collection. I am guessing that the court set in the Grayson Collection is at reduced size because both the bow and the arrows are to scale.
The basic design is similar to Manchu quivers of the Qing. The three pockets on the inside face of the quiver are used for special arrows and darts. The large Qing quivers are worn high on the hip and the arrows are at a high angle. Your pictures of Korean archers conform to that design.
I have used this kind of quiver for years and there is no need to turn it around. It is easy draw arrows from because only ten to fifteen inches of the arrow is inside the quiver. The strap arrangement of the quiver suspension in the Qianlong era quivers does not permit them to be turned around. The Korean quivers similar and I made a smaller version and tested it. Drawing arrows is quick and easy.
The picture is of a small version of the Manchu quiver.
The basic design is similar to Manchu quivers of the Qing. The three pockets on the inside face of the quiver are used for special arrows and darts. The large Qing quivers are worn high on the hip and the arrows are at a high angle. Your pictures of Korean archers conform to that design.
I have used this kind of quiver for years and there is no need to turn it around. It is easy draw arrows from because only ten to fifteen inches of the arrow is inside the quiver. The strap arrangement of the quiver suspension in the Qianlong era quivers does not permit them to be turned around. The Korean quivers similar and I made a smaller version and tested it. Drawing arrows is quick and easy.
The picture is of a small version of the Manchu quiver.
This picture shows the three straps holding the quiver to the belt. The rear one runs through a slot in all three pockets to a ring on the inside face of the quiver.
I looked just now at two Tang dynsasty models of horseback archers with Turkish-style closed quivers. They both have the mouth of the quiver pointing forward.
Personally, with a closed quiver with the arrow points at the mouth of the quiver, I think it's more natural to draw the arrow forward. But if I was picking up the arrow by the nock, it would be easier to get it onto the string by pullking the arrow out backward.
S
Personally, with a closed quiver with the arrow points at the mouth of the quiver, I think it's more natural to draw the arrow forward. But if I was picking up the arrow by the nock, it would be easier to get it onto the string by pullking the arrow out backward.
S
Thank you for your replies, Mr. Selby and Mr. Bede.
Pardon me for asking once more, but, which part of the
arrow-shaft do you grab when pulling the arrow out from
the hip-quivers of Qing or Korean type?
And, how were the rings attached to the Korean hip-quiver
positioned? Is it also awkward to turn them around?
Pardon me for asking once more, but, which part of the
arrow-shaft do you grab when pulling the arrow out from
the hip-quivers of Qing or Korean type?
And, how were the rings attached to the Korean hip-quiver
positioned? Is it also awkward to turn them around?
If you imagine the arrow divided into five sections: one section is in the quiver, you grasp the second section counting from the point. Then you bring the arrow forward so that you can take it just behind the point with the fore finger and thumb of the bow hand. Then the drawing hand takes the nock and pushes the arrow forward until the nock can be put on the string.
I can find out about the Korean quiver. I remember it as being more rigidly attached to the belt than Qing quivers, but it was for ceremonial purposes only and not meant to be used, just worn as part of a uniform.
I can find out about the Korean quiver. I remember it as being more rigidly attached to the belt than Qing quivers, but it was for ceremonial purposes only and not meant to be used, just worn as part of a uniform.