Composite bows of Russia and Scandinavia?
To this day, the only thing I've known about Russian archery was that the Mongolian bows had influence on Russian ones since the Mongolian Invasion of Russia in 13th century A.D.
However, although known from limited source, I've heard that Russians and even Scandinavians used composite bows in the medieval period before the conflict with Mongolians. One article in this forum discussed about Russian sinew backed bow of Novgorod.
Were composite bows of horn, sinew, and wood used among the Russians, Scandinavians, and other related people in the medieval era before the period of Mongols?
However, although known from limited source, I've heard that Russians and even Scandinavians used composite bows in the medieval period before the conflict with Mongolians. One article in this forum discussed about Russian sinew backed bow of Novgorod.
Were composite bows of horn, sinew, and wood used among the Russians, Scandinavians, and other related people in the medieval era before the period of Mongols?
I think it is safe to assume so, given the Rus trade routes with the eastern Romans. They also had contact with numerous steppe nomads before the Mongols.
I've seen this russian archery related(and interesting) picture in the forum's picture archive. Does anyone know the source of it? I wonder whether there are useful books or thesis about rusiian archery.
For Russo-Asian contacts, you could look at Lev Gumyilev "Dryevnyaya Rus' I Velyikaya Styep' " ISBN 5-17-021156-5. Moscow, 2004.
The illustration is from an old 'Standard Work' on Russian Bows and Arrows. Myevyedyev: "Luk I Stryelbi, Samostryel". ("Bows, Arrows and Crossbows".
The illustration is from an old 'Standard Work' on Russian Bows and Arrows. Myevyedyev: "Luk I Stryelbi, Samostryel". ("Bows, Arrows and Crossbows".
I have Medvedev's book on my HDD and some Gumilev's. Need ftp to upload - Medvedev's book is about 50Mb of pics and some rtf text.
Lev Gumilev works can be downloaded here
http://lib.aldebaran.ru/author/gumilev_lev/
Maps for Gumilev's books and articles can be found here
http://gumilevica.kulichki.net/maps/index.html#ARGS
D.N. Anuchin's pre-October revolution book "Luk i streli" (Bow and arrows) can be downloaded here
http://up.spbland.ru/files/07052259/ as DJVU file 1.74 Mb or here
http://up.spbland.ru/files/07052266/ as PDF file 10.7 Mb
If somebody have troubles with Russian download instructions please let me know - little files can be emailed, large files need a place to upload...
All sites and books in Russian
ATTENTION! Lev Gumilev version of history sometimes radically different than common official history! And it's his own view ! You can trust it or not, it's your matter :))))
Any questions, comments etc are welcome :)
Lev Gumilev works can be downloaded here
http://lib.aldebaran.ru/author/gumilev_lev/
Maps for Gumilev's books and articles can be found here
http://gumilevica.kulichki.net/maps/index.html#ARGS
D.N. Anuchin's pre-October revolution book "Luk i streli" (Bow and arrows) can be downloaded here
http://up.spbland.ru/files/07052259/ as DJVU file 1.74 Mb or here
http://up.spbland.ru/files/07052266/ as PDF file 10.7 Mb
If somebody have troubles with Russian download instructions please let me know - little files can be emailed, large files need a place to upload...
All sites and books in Russian
ATTENTION! Lev Gumilev version of history sometimes radically different than common official history! And it's his own view ! You can trust it or not, it's your matter :))))
Any questions, comments etc are welcome :)
I must bring my apologies to Redhawk - some time ago, when he made and posted his replica of so-called Novgorod bow, I emailed to Michael and promised some info about this kind of bows...It was about 2 years ago...
Then I lost my HDD...and honestly? simply forgot about it...some data is lost...
Michael, my apologies...
But I can make quick summary and post it, or email it to Michael as to the starter of first German and atarn replica of "Novgorod" bow... to continue his thread))))
Michael, it's your decision)))
I'll try to make it tonight...
And we will need some guy to find an old magazine in Swedish libraries...
'cause I have only low-res scans now...This article is very important...
Then I lost my HDD...and honestly? simply forgot about it...some data is lost...
Michael, my apologies...
But I can make quick summary and post it, or email it to Michael as to the starter of first German and atarn replica of "Novgorod" bow... to continue his thread))))
Michael, it's your decision)))
I'll try to make it tonight...
And we will need some guy to find an old magazine in Swedish libraries...
'cause I have only low-res scans now...This article is very important...
Thanks Wild Russian,
cause of my terrible accident last fall and my very time-consuming research on different types of Greek hornbows I didn?t have the time to care more for the Novgorod bow.
But I like this bow very much, it is a fine shooter and I?ll do more chronos and other tests with it. I?ll do this summer a shorter version of it, it will be very similiar to the Scythian bow-design.
Before I?ll begin I would like to read the article you were talking about.
Michael
cause of my terrible accident last fall and my very time-consuming research on different types of Greek hornbows I didn?t have the time to care more for the Novgorod bow.
But I like this bow very much, it is a fine shooter and I?ll do more chronos and other tests with it. I?ll do this summer a shorter version of it, it will be very similiar to the Scythian bow-design.
Before I?ll begin I would like to read the article you were talking about.
Michael
And we will need some guy to find an old magazine in Swedish libraries...
I can try.
I can try.
Michael, I have lo-res scans of this article...
Pics are visible, and some text too.... maybe if I could read in Swedish it will be more visible for me....))))
I'll email it to you tonight
Pics are visible, and some text too.... maybe if I could read in Swedish it will be more visible for me....))))
I'll email it to you tonight
Hi
Wild Russian: Is it possible you could email me a copy
of this (lo-res scans) article as well?
Wild Russian: Is it possible you could email me a copy
of this (lo-res scans) article as well?
Hi Stig, Max has just migrated to Germany and I think he?ll not be able to sent you these scans for the next few weeks.
So tell me your email- adress via pm and I could mail you these scans.
Michael
So tell me your email- adress via pm and I could mail you these scans.
Michael
Thank you very much Michael
I have sent you an email now.
I have sent you an email now.
There were pages from more than one article
in this PDF.
One english article and at least one (probably two) in swedish.
A friend of mine thought he recognized them.
I will try to find some time to read these articles:
"?rbyhusb?gen" (The Bow from ?rbyhus) by J. Alm
(This one says: Reprinted from "LIVRUSTKAMMAREN - Journal of The Royal Armoury Vol. V: 10-11")
"Jokkmokksb?gen rekonstruerad" ( The Bow from Jokkmokk - reconstructed) by Ragnar Insulander
"B?gfyndet fr?n Jokkmokk" (The Bow Find from Jokkmokk) by Andreas Oldeberg
(This one is suposedly taken from "Norrbottens l?ns hembygdsforenings ?rsbok 1956",
if any swedish reader want look for it).
My attempt to translate the titles of these articles.
All three articles are in swedish but "The ?rbyhus Bow" has an english summary at the end.
I haven't had a chance to read them yet but at least the ones about "Jokkmokk" may
be relevant.
in this PDF.
One english article and at least one (probably two) in swedish.
A friend of mine thought he recognized them.
I will try to find some time to read these articles:
"?rbyhusb?gen" (The Bow from ?rbyhus) by J. Alm
(This one says: Reprinted from "LIVRUSTKAMMAREN - Journal of The Royal Armoury Vol. V: 10-11")
"Jokkmokksb?gen rekonstruerad" ( The Bow from Jokkmokk - reconstructed) by Ragnar Insulander
"B?gfyndet fr?n Jokkmokk" (The Bow Find from Jokkmokk) by Andreas Oldeberg
(This one is suposedly taken from "Norrbottens l?ns hembygdsforenings ?rsbok 1956",
if any swedish reader want look for it).
My attempt to translate the titles of these articles.
All three articles are in swedish but "The ?rbyhus Bow" has an english summary at the end.
I haven't had a chance to read them yet but at least the ones about "Jokkmokk" may
be relevant.
The ?rbyhus and Jokkmokk bows are not composites of horn, wood and sinew, though, but laminated wood bows with a compression-pine belly and a birch back.
The article "The ?rbyhus Bow" above is about the same bow
mentioned in the pages I received, however not the same article.
All or most of the swedish pages are maybe from "Den samiska pilb?gen p? ?rbyhus slott"
by Ragnar Insulander (Insulander Media, 1995). (The title should translate
to something like "The saami Bow at ?rbyhus Castle").
There are two pages in english among the JPGs. One beeing just a short english summary
about the "saami-bow" from (probably) an swedish article, the other I don't recognize.
mentioned in the pages I received, however not the same article.
All or most of the swedish pages are maybe from "Den samiska pilb?gen p? ?rbyhus slott"
by Ragnar Insulander (Insulander Media, 1995). (The title should translate
to something like "The saami Bow at ?rbyhus Castle").
There are two pages in english among the JPGs. One beeing just a short english summary
about the "saami-bow" from (probably) an swedish article, the other I don't recognize.
Does anybody have information on Latvian bows and arrows from 6th till 13th century.
The country is close to Novgorod, the Saami and Scandinavia - one clue has bin that they used "Novgorod style"/"Saami style" bows.
Any ideas? :)
The country is close to Novgorod, the Saami and Scandinavia - one clue has bin that they used "Novgorod style"/"Saami style" bows.
Any ideas? :)
Gvido,
I've been told that one of the most representative collections of this type bows is in Copenhagen museum :)
Some pictures from Riga museum (capital of Latvia) that I have seen are exactly the same North Composite bows, maybe slightly longer, but I'm not sure now.
I've been told that one of the most representative collections of this type bows is in Copenhagen museum :)
Some pictures from Riga museum (capital of Latvia) that I have seen are exactly the same North Composite bows, maybe slightly longer, but I'm not sure now.
That is very interesting to see, Wild Russian! - thanks!
I'm currently writing a paper on these bows as a master thesis in archaeology, and coming across such a complete bow is just amazing! I would love to visit that museum, although that would stretch my budget a bit :)
Anyway, that bow looks like some of the bows that Sirelius wrote about in 1922. Plus, I think I have seen some pictures of a similar one that was said to be from Siberia.
Gvido, do you know of any museum in Denmark that could have such two-wood-bows? If there is one in Copenhagen, that would be awesome!
If any of you know anything about these two-wood-bows, I would love to hear from you :)
I'm currently writing a paper on these bows as a master thesis in archaeology, and coming across such a complete bow is just amazing! I would love to visit that museum, although that would stretch my budget a bit :)
Anyway, that bow looks like some of the bows that Sirelius wrote about in 1922. Plus, I think I have seen some pictures of a similar one that was said to be from Siberia.
Gvido, do you know of any museum in Denmark that could have such two-wood-bows? If there is one in Copenhagen, that would be awesome!
If any of you know anything about these two-wood-bows, I would love to hear from you :)
I remember a book, published in Soviet days, called something like The Peoples of Siberia which had similar bows. I think they were of two laminations of wood with thin sinew backing and a complete wrapping of birch bark. The impression I remember is of that style of bow being common across the northern part of the continent.
Bede, exactly!
Almost all bows from Baltic sea to Pacific ocean....
the friend of mine have seen some bows in Yakutia that were exactly the same.. :)
Almost all bows from Baltic sea to Pacific ocean....
the friend of mine have seen some bows in Yakutia that were exactly the same.. :)
Interesting! - I'll have to try to find that book!
Were these quite long paddle-bows with and without recurves?
Were these quite long paddle-bows with and without recurves?
The bows I remember had oval cross sections in the bending parts of the limb and short siyahs. The were effectively laminated longbows with rigid recurves.
Sounds very much like some medieval bows we have here in Norway, except for the recurves.
Bet these were laminated from birch and pine?
Bet these were laminated from birch and pine?
Birch and pine, birch and juniper, birch and larch....
I found this link today,
http://fornvannen.se/pdf/1990talet/1999_073.pdf
http://fornvannen.se/pdf/1990talet/1999_073.pdf
Good one Redhorse!
I've been searching a bit for the museum in Riga, and for the bow that WildRussian showed pictures of earlier in this thread. I came across this website: http://www.history-museum.lv/english/pages/majas.php
From there I found this site, that I think should be the catalogue over the artifacts that the musuem has. But I don't have a clue of what is says there, so I was wondering if any of you understand the language and perhaps could do a quick search for bows there?
http://www.meandrs.lv/viewObjectInstanc ... 1629910136
I've been searching a bit for the museum in Riga, and for the bow that WildRussian showed pictures of earlier in this thread. I came across this website: http://www.history-museum.lv/english/pages/majas.php
From there I found this site, that I think should be the catalogue over the artifacts that the musuem has. But I don't have a clue of what is says there, so I was wondering if any of you understand the language and perhaps could do a quick search for bows there?
http://www.meandrs.lv/viewObjectInstanc ... 1629910136
Kviljo,
I'll ask the guy who made this photo exact name and address of the museum. It seems to me that it's Sea Museum or something like this
I'll ask the guy who made this photo exact name and address of the museum. It seems to me that it's Sea Museum or something like this
That would be great! :D
Any news WR? :)
By the way, here's a pic of one of my last attempts at making a replica of a norwegian medieval two-wood-bow. It's lenght and width is based on a fragment of an original bow.
http://kviljo.no/bue/toved/d.jpg
By the way, here's a pic of one of my last attempts at making a replica of a norwegian medieval two-wood-bow. It's lenght and width is based on a fragment of an original bow.
http://kviljo.no/bue/toved/d.jpg
Original scandinavian 2 wood bow slightly recurved stif tips. Made from Elm and Hazel.
Kviljo,
my apologies...
What I received from this Dmitrij from Riga:
About this museum:
http://www.muzeji.lv/guide/pages_r/rigasvestures.html
Web site of the museum:
http://www.rigamuz.lv
first link in Russian, second have English version
The museum is situated in the centre of the old city, near the Dom church
my apologies...
What I received from this Dmitrij from Riga:
About this museum:
http://www.muzeji.lv/guide/pages_r/rigasvestures.html
Web site of the museum:
http://www.rigamuz.lv
first link in Russian, second have English version
The museum is situated in the centre of the old city, near the Dom church
Many many thanks WR!
E-mail sent, and I really hope they have some extra info on the bow :)
E-mail sent, and I really hope they have some extra info on the bow :)
Seems they're not interested in answering :(
Anyway, I found the book "The peoples of Siberia" by Levin Potapov, 1964. There's a small drawing of just such a bow, on page 519, under "The Khants and Mansi". Definitely useful!
Anyway, I found the book "The peoples of Siberia" by Levin Potapov, 1964. There's a small drawing of just such a bow, on page 519, under "The Khants and Mansi". Definitely useful!