bad loose
I have seen a front movement of the draw arm before the shooting moment.
In the second pic the draw hand is about one or two cm in front in comparison with the last (pics uploaded in reverse order).
I shoot here with a male-sugakji ring.
What should I do to correct my technique?
Interesting is that in another movie that I have and I shot with a amgakji ring this mistake is absent or not visible.
In the second pic the draw hand is about one or two cm in front in comparison with the last (pics uploaded in reverse order).
I shoot here with a male-sugakji ring.
What should I do to correct my technique?
Interesting is that in another movie that I have and I shot with a amgakji ring this mistake is absent or not visible.
I believe my mistake is called "creep" or "forward loose".
In "Saracen Archery" book say that the release must be accomplished with a "backward punch" to avoid the tendency to creep or to make the forward movement visible (or maybe not so) in my technique.
But "creep" and "forward loose" is the same thing?
In "Saracen Archery" book say that the release must be accomplished with a "backward punch" to avoid the tendency to creep or to make the forward movement visible (or maybe not so) in my technique.
But "creep" and "forward loose" is the same thing?
Creep is allowing the tip of the arrow to ease forward just before you release. It leads to inaccuracy in the vertical plane because the arrow has varying amounts of acceleration. When shooting with a thumb ring, the best way to control creep is to draw to the same part of the bow-hand thumb every time. As long as you hold your hand the same way every shot, it should work.
My arrows often hit the bow limb, but I don't know why and what I am doing wrong.
I painted the limb and I was surprised seeing two marks on the arrow shaft, a little curved one in the front and one long and straight in front of the feathers.
One arrow have two marks on the back.
I know that using a thumb and a proper release the arrow don't touch the rest, so what I am doing wrong?
Why the front mark is curved?
I painted the limb and I was surprised seeing two marks on the arrow shaft, a little curved one in the front and one long and straight in front of the feathers.
One arrow have two marks on the back.
I know that using a thumb and a proper release the arrow don't touch the rest, so what I am doing wrong?
Why the front mark is curved?
I'd say the 'curved' mark is due to the natural lift at the pile end of the arrow on release.
Eugen; you are lucky that you painted the arrow rest as this is a good way to see where the arrow touches the bow. Hopefully you have noticed that the marks on the arrow are at the same place that the previous arrows were breaking. I had some discussion with ATARNITES in Korea about your shooting technique and it was mentioned that you might be pulling strongly to the side of the bow in the manner of Kyudo. I do not know about Korean technique but this might be a mistake and a dangerous one for the horn bow you are planning.
Possibly Thomas or others could comment on this aspect of shooting a Korean bow.
Does Turkish technique require pulling sideways on the string? -j-
Possibly Thomas or others could comment on this aspect of shooting a Korean bow.
Does Turkish technique require pulling sideways on the string? -j-
Jack!
I have tested that last time when I have shot.
If I shoot by pulling the side of the bow (that action put torque on the bow grip when I draw the bow), the arrow don't touch the rest, neither at the point or at the front of feathers, the string don't touch my fore arm and I feel little more hand shock.
The precision was increasing too.
So, my feel was that pulling sideway is an improuvement. I have carefully check the limbs looking for twisting and find nothing. But If I shoot left handed (bow grip in the right hand and raw with left hand), the limbs twist little. The string move on the pads about 3-4 mm.
Now I really don't know what is right, pulling or not pulling sideway?
I have tested that last time when I have shot.
If I shoot by pulling the side of the bow (that action put torque on the bow grip when I draw the bow), the arrow don't touch the rest, neither at the point or at the front of feathers, the string don't touch my fore arm and I feel little more hand shock.
The precision was increasing too.
So, my feel was that pulling sideway is an improuvement. I have carefully check the limbs looking for twisting and find nothing. But If I shoot left handed (bow grip in the right hand and raw with left hand), the limbs twist little. The string move on the pads about 3-4 mm.
Now I really don't know what is right, pulling or not pulling sideway?
Eugen: In the first photo of your shooting, the bow is almost a straight line meaning that it has moved into the same plane as the camera. You can see that the arrow has been released and is now in front of the bow. The other two pics have your body at the same angle with the photographer, but the bow is held in a flat plane with you, the shooter.
To me it appears as if the bow has twisted after your release. Is that usual for this type of bow? -j-
To me it appears as if the bow has twisted after your release. Is that usual for this type of bow? -j-
Jack,
As I have understood the korean technique, the bow must be twisted to the left so that the arrow do not hit the rest and is no paradox.
How strog that movement it must to be, I dont know.
I draw the bow and I twist a little the bow to the left. If the twist is to strong, the arrow can fly to left (I am right handed) and the bow is shaking a lot. If the twist if to weak, the arrow can hit the rest making noise and wobbling.
I try to twist the bow at the limit when the arrow don't touch the rest.
My technique is slowly improving, I can feel that (actually I don't feel, because the string don't touch anymore my forearm:D - few weeks ago I was using a bracer), but I am very teasing with my trivial questions.
I hope Thomas book will help.
As I have understood the korean technique, the bow must be twisted to the left so that the arrow do not hit the rest and is no paradox.
How strog that movement it must to be, I dont know.
I draw the bow and I twist a little the bow to the left. If the twist is to strong, the arrow can fly to left (I am right handed) and the bow is shaking a lot. If the twist if to weak, the arrow can hit the rest making noise and wobbling.
I try to twist the bow at the limit when the arrow don't touch the rest.
My technique is slowly improving, I can feel that (actually I don't feel, because the string don't touch anymore my forearm:D - few weeks ago I was using a bracer), but I am very teasing with my trivial questions.
I hope Thomas book will help.
Eugen,
How's this problem comming for you? Have you solved the arrow hitting the side of the bow problem yet? Was Thomas' book helpful for you?
I've had this problem and have eliminated it (mostly) with a few things:
1. Arrows must be MUCH stiffer than normal spine stiffness when shooting with a thumbring. I use arrows spined for a 60-65# bow for my 42# Saluki Turk. This also applies for low performance bows like my kid's 25# bow which I use arrows spined for 35-45#. If the spine is not stiff enough, the arrows are MUCH more likely to slap the side of the bow.
2. I spent some time with a Japanese horsearchery (yabusame I think) black belt with 15 years experience shooting Yumi bows with the thumb and she talked about pointing/pushing the thumb at the target. This creates that torque that you were talking about and helps clear the arrow from the flight of the arrow as it leaves the bow. This creates the follow through that you see with the yumi bow shooters as the string flips to the side and ends with the bow facing the archer.
3. I've been doing the Japanese technique along with a little pressure from the ring and little fingers on the bow grip. This causes the upper limb to tip forward in the follow through. I find this helpful with arrow clearance too.
Hope this was helpful! Please let me know if you have had success with other techniques as well, as I'm always trying to reduce arrow slap issues.
J.
How's this problem comming for you? Have you solved the arrow hitting the side of the bow problem yet? Was Thomas' book helpful for you?
I've had this problem and have eliminated it (mostly) with a few things:
1. Arrows must be MUCH stiffer than normal spine stiffness when shooting with a thumbring. I use arrows spined for a 60-65# bow for my 42# Saluki Turk. This also applies for low performance bows like my kid's 25# bow which I use arrows spined for 35-45#. If the spine is not stiff enough, the arrows are MUCH more likely to slap the side of the bow.
2. I spent some time with a Japanese horsearchery (yabusame I think) black belt with 15 years experience shooting Yumi bows with the thumb and she talked about pointing/pushing the thumb at the target. This creates that torque that you were talking about and helps clear the arrow from the flight of the arrow as it leaves the bow. This creates the follow through that you see with the yumi bow shooters as the string flips to the side and ends with the bow facing the archer.
3. I've been doing the Japanese technique along with a little pressure from the ring and little fingers on the bow grip. This causes the upper limb to tip forward in the follow through. I find this helpful with arrow clearance too.
Hope this was helpful! Please let me know if you have had success with other techniques as well, as I'm always trying to reduce arrow slap issues.
J.
Jason,
I push the grip with the middle, ring and little finger in the lower part of the grip and the arrow have a high angle with the string. The index is not used.
I use only high spine arrows, from 105 to 135 lbs, for my 84 lbs. bow.
A have seen that the stronger is going better, but all have marks.
The marks are near the serving zone in the front of the feathers, the stiffer have the mark forward, to the point, the lower spined arrows have the mark behind the serving.
But they all slap.
I will try some bamboo arrows, maybe that more elatic shafts work better than pine.
I still dont have the Korean Archery book, but hope I will get it soon.
I push the grip with the middle, ring and little finger in the lower part of the grip and the arrow have a high angle with the string. The index is not used.
I use only high spine arrows, from 105 to 135 lbs, for my 84 lbs. bow.
A have seen that the stronger is going better, but all have marks.
The marks are near the serving zone in the front of the feathers, the stiffer have the mark forward, to the point, the lower spined arrows have the mark behind the serving.
But they all slap.
I will try some bamboo arrows, maybe that more elatic shafts work better than pine.
I still dont have the Korean Archery book, but hope I will get it soon.
Eugen,
I preparation for going indoors this year I've switched to some aluminium sets of arrows, as my wooden arrows (75-80 spine) break on the target at close distances, from my 50lb Turkish bow. (I wouldn't ordinarily like using Ali's, but I don't want splinters or worse flying back at fellow archers). Using the ali's I've had some quite amazing results, the shortest and lightest are best and I can aim over my hand up to 80 yards.
Quite surprisingly, the spine seems to have little to no effect on the actual flight of the arrow, and only the direction was effected. I think length might be more important that spine, as the shortest arrows (made for use with 20-30lb Mediterranean draw) performed the best.
Perhaps you could try some Ali's and see if you still get slapping then?
Of course, I only draw about 28" now, so the patterns might change on longer draws.
Good luck
Mike
I preparation for going indoors this year I've switched to some aluminium sets of arrows, as my wooden arrows (75-80 spine) break on the target at close distances, from my 50lb Turkish bow. (I wouldn't ordinarily like using Ali's, but I don't want splinters or worse flying back at fellow archers). Using the ali's I've had some quite amazing results, the shortest and lightest are best and I can aim over my hand up to 80 yards.
Quite surprisingly, the spine seems to have little to no effect on the actual flight of the arrow, and only the direction was effected. I think length might be more important that spine, as the shortest arrows (made for use with 20-30lb Mediterranean draw) performed the best.
Perhaps you could try some Ali's and see if you still get slapping then?
Of course, I only draw about 28" now, so the patterns might change on longer draws.
Good luck
Mike
Mike,
I have seen a short movie with a Japanese archer shooting in slow motion and the arrows have a complex movement.
I think that one movement is specific to asian technique and that movement can do that arrow breakage at short distances.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNI9BG87qcI
I can see four distinct motions.
First is the movement from bow to target, a straight line aprox. movement.
Second is the rotation movement, the spine like a bullet,
Third is the oscillation movement, that movement is generating the paradox.
Ad the fourth is that specific movement, the arrow make a oscillation like a pendulum around the mass center point of the arrow and I think the bow side twist generate that oscillation.
So the arrow at short distances will hit the target like in the movie, not straight but oblique, and will break. That is the reason why the Chinese made that huge fletching for arrows used at close range shooting.
I believe that if must to shoot at close range with thumb, a good idea will be to put larger feathers to the shafts.
Aluminium is not an option to me, first because they usually dont made 33" shafts and second is the spine. I doubt that are available shafts with 120-130# spine. The third reason is the price, one self aluminium shaft cost like 20 pine shafts that I use.
Succes to the contest!
I have seen a short movie with a Japanese archer shooting in slow motion and the arrows have a complex movement.
I think that one movement is specific to asian technique and that movement can do that arrow breakage at short distances.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNI9BG87qcI
I can see four distinct motions.
First is the movement from bow to target, a straight line aprox. movement.
Second is the rotation movement, the spine like a bullet,
Third is the oscillation movement, that movement is generating the paradox.
Ad the fourth is that specific movement, the arrow make a oscillation like a pendulum around the mass center point of the arrow and I think the bow side twist generate that oscillation.
So the arrow at short distances will hit the target like in the movie, not straight but oblique, and will break. That is the reason why the Chinese made that huge fletching for arrows used at close range shooting.
I believe that if must to shoot at close range with thumb, a good idea will be to put larger feathers to the shafts.
Aluminium is not an option to me, first because they usually dont made 33" shafts and second is the spine. I doubt that are available shafts with 120-130# spine. The third reason is the price, one self aluminium shaft cost like 20 pine shafts that I use.
Succes to the contest!
Ginni
Here is jsut some things to think about, Since I am shooting the same bow you are, Although, I am only drawing 76# @ 30",with a thumbring. But i was having some arrow slap, And I came to the conclusion it was being coused by my release. I worked on it and it helped but I still noticed That I still got it one every 3rd shoot or so. The arrow was being drawn across the chin very much like in your pictures. Then I was watching the Hungrians shoot on YouTube, and decided to try a high anchore. Although I do not anchore as high as them, I go to my ear lobe. But this completly got ride of the arrow slap.
The otherthings is since everyone has told and what I have read in older text. That spine does not matter, You jsut have to have enough to keep the arrow from exploding. I decided to make some from 45 - 49# spine 23/64" shafts and made chested arrows. They fly great, I am now using them for deer hunting. I mention this their is an spin you don't want to go under, But I also believe the is a spine weight you don't want to go over with relevance to bow weight. As you said and arrow makes alot of different movements when the string is release. I beleive to stiff of a spine will reduce the amount of recover that the arrow needed.
Just a thought.
Matt
Here is jsut some things to think about, Since I am shooting the same bow you are, Although, I am only drawing 76# @ 30",with a thumbring. But i was having some arrow slap, And I came to the conclusion it was being coused by my release. I worked on it and it helped but I still noticed That I still got it one every 3rd shoot or so. The arrow was being drawn across the chin very much like in your pictures. Then I was watching the Hungrians shoot on YouTube, and decided to try a high anchore. Although I do not anchore as high as them, I go to my ear lobe. But this completly got ride of the arrow slap.
The otherthings is since everyone has told and what I have read in older text. That spine does not matter, You jsut have to have enough to keep the arrow from exploding. I decided to make some from 45 - 49# spine 23/64" shafts and made chested arrows. They fly great, I am now using them for deer hunting. I mention this their is an spin you don't want to go under, But I also believe the is a spine weight you don't want to go over with relevance to bow weight. As you said and arrow makes alot of different movements when the string is release. I beleive to stiff of a spine will reduce the amount of recover that the arrow needed.
Just a thought.
Matt
Eugen,
"84 lbs. bow."
Just after I hit the 'send' button, I remembered that you shoot 84# and therefor would need a REALLY stiff arrow!
Sounds like you grip the bow pretty much exactly as I do. I'm wondering how much pressure you are putting on the bow grip? As I've been experimenting with this, I'm coming to the conclusion that too much pressure on these grip points creates tension in the whole bow hand/arm that may add to arrow/bow impact. I'm finding that a LIGHTER grip, with the same pressure points on the grip, very helpful in avoiding the arrow slap.
The grip is VERY loose as I'm coming to full draw and then I point my thumb toward the target, JUST A LITTLE and give that LIGHT squeeze with the lower two or three fingers as I release. The pressure from all parts of the grip is VERY LOOSE. I believe this helps the bow move itself out of the arrows path, with a LITTLE help from our muscle tension as I come to full draw.
BTW, that's a great video of the Japanese yumi bow shooter! Too bad it's so dark though... I went to the company who made that video (phototron.com I think) website and they had a bunch of other REALLY cool slow motion video in their 'Gallery'. Non archery related though...
Hey Matt!
I got your reply to my PM! Glad to hear things are good and that you're busy!
I can't remember. Are you still using the thumbring with the arrow on the same side of the bow as with split finger shooting? If so, your arrow dynamics would be completely different than 'normal' thumbring shooting or 'normal' split finger shooting for that matter! It would also explain why you're able to shoot such light spined arrows. Of course your form/technique could be so perfect that you can shoot ANY spined arrow from your bow and it wouldn't matter! :D
J.
"84 lbs. bow."
Just after I hit the 'send' button, I remembered that you shoot 84# and therefor would need a REALLY stiff arrow!
Sounds like you grip the bow pretty much exactly as I do. I'm wondering how much pressure you are putting on the bow grip? As I've been experimenting with this, I'm coming to the conclusion that too much pressure on these grip points creates tension in the whole bow hand/arm that may add to arrow/bow impact. I'm finding that a LIGHTER grip, with the same pressure points on the grip, very helpful in avoiding the arrow slap.
The grip is VERY loose as I'm coming to full draw and then I point my thumb toward the target, JUST A LITTLE and give that LIGHT squeeze with the lower two or three fingers as I release. The pressure from all parts of the grip is VERY LOOSE. I believe this helps the bow move itself out of the arrows path, with a LITTLE help from our muscle tension as I come to full draw.
BTW, that's a great video of the Japanese yumi bow shooter! Too bad it's so dark though... I went to the company who made that video (phototron.com I think) website and they had a bunch of other REALLY cool slow motion video in their 'Gallery'. Non archery related though...
Hey Matt!
I got your reply to my PM! Glad to hear things are good and that you're busy!
I can't remember. Are you still using the thumbring with the arrow on the same side of the bow as with split finger shooting? If so, your arrow dynamics would be completely different than 'normal' thumbring shooting or 'normal' split finger shooting for that matter! It would also explain why you're able to shoot such light spined arrows. Of course your form/technique could be so perfect that you can shoot ANY spined arrow from your bow and it wouldn't matter! :D
J.
Jason,
Now I don't have time for shooting, hope in the weekend I will have some time.
Last shooting was a disaster, the arrows was slaping every shoot, I was not able to hit the 60 cm target eve at 20 meters...
The best shots I had was at 50-60 meters, I finaly was able to put my arrows in the target, but I just canot understand why I shot beter from 60 meters than 20. I wonder if the korean technique work somehow better if the arrow have a high angle.
I broke three arrows and now i have only three healty arrows, so the next session will be a very short one... But hope I will have enough time to experiment your advices.
Matt,
I have tried few shots with the arrow on the left side, like using the mediteranean technique and finnaly I lost one arrow into a corn field. I have shot few meters above the target. I just canot shoot like that using my eyes open, the fear is stronger than me... :D
Now I don't have time for shooting, hope in the weekend I will have some time.
Last shooting was a disaster, the arrows was slaping every shoot, I was not able to hit the 60 cm target eve at 20 meters...
The best shots I had was at 50-60 meters, I finaly was able to put my arrows in the target, but I just canot understand why I shot beter from 60 meters than 20. I wonder if the korean technique work somehow better if the arrow have a high angle.
I broke three arrows and now i have only three healty arrows, so the next session will be a very short one... But hope I will have enough time to experiment your advices.
Matt,
I have tried few shots with the arrow on the left side, like using the mediteranean technique and finnaly I lost one arrow into a corn field. I have shot few meters above the target. I just canot shoot like that using my eyes open, the fear is stronger than me... :D
Eugen,
I know how you feel about the lack to free time! Too much to do, NEVER enough time!
Maybe when shooting at longer distances, the arrow has more time to straighten out after the shaft hits the side of the bow? Maybe at short distances the arrow is still flying from side to side too much?
Have you tried raising your string brace height, 1-4cm? raising my brace height also helped reduce bow/arrow contact.
I can't remember, but has Tom D. made any suggestions to you yet? He'd really be the one to ask.
Also; how can you loose a telephone pole in a corn field, let alone 3 telephone poles?!?!?!? :lol: I figure you must be shooting telephone pole for a 130# spine arrow!! :wink:
I'm sorry. I'm full of BAD jokes and they occasionally ooze out of me like mud.
Let us know how shooting is for you this weekend.
J.
I know how you feel about the lack to free time! Too much to do, NEVER enough time!
Maybe when shooting at longer distances, the arrow has more time to straighten out after the shaft hits the side of the bow? Maybe at short distances the arrow is still flying from side to side too much?
Have you tried raising your string brace height, 1-4cm? raising my brace height also helped reduce bow/arrow contact.
I can't remember, but has Tom D. made any suggestions to you yet? He'd really be the one to ask.
Also; how can you loose a telephone pole in a corn field, let alone 3 telephone poles?!?!?!? :lol: I figure you must be shooting telephone pole for a 130# spine arrow!! :wink:
I'm sorry. I'm full of BAD jokes and they occasionally ooze out of me like mud.
Let us know how shooting is for you this weekend.
J.
Ginni,
In the photographs you posted, I notice the elbow of your drawing arm is quite low, below the level of the arrow. I would suggest adjustment in your form to achieve a nice straight line, maybe have someone to watch you shoot who can let you know if you drop your elbow.
In the photographs you posted, I notice the elbow of your drawing arm is quite low, below the level of the arrow. I would suggest adjustment in your form to achieve a nice straight line, maybe have someone to watch you shoot who can let you know if you drop your elbow.
Eugen,
Have you got a copy of 'Saracen Archery' to hand? You might find the chapter 'On faults and injuries to which archers are exposed' useful. In the comments section at the end of the chapter it discusses sound emitted by equipment. It attributes the a sound made to 'when the shaftment strikes the arrow-pass as it leaves the bow'. It then goes on to say that this is caused by 'twisting the grip on loosing, a bad grasp, pinching the nock (I think that means putting pressure on the nock), too big a loop (string loop?) or a bad arrow that is defective either becuase it is too thin or too weak a wood or too roughly cut in the making'.
Do you lean forward slightly whilst shooting? I find that if I lean foward and do not have a solid stance my bow arm will fly off on loose.
As a last resort you could find a lighter bow which would be easier to experiment with to discover what makes the arrow slap.
Regards
Mike
Have you got a copy of 'Saracen Archery' to hand? You might find the chapter 'On faults and injuries to which archers are exposed' useful. In the comments section at the end of the chapter it discusses sound emitted by equipment. It attributes the a sound made to 'when the shaftment strikes the arrow-pass as it leaves the bow'. It then goes on to say that this is caused by 'twisting the grip on loosing, a bad grasp, pinching the nock (I think that means putting pressure on the nock), too big a loop (string loop?) or a bad arrow that is defective either becuase it is too thin or too weak a wood or too roughly cut in the making'.
Do you lean forward slightly whilst shooting? I find that if I lean foward and do not have a solid stance my bow arm will fly off on loose.
As a last resort you could find a lighter bow which would be easier to experiment with to discover what makes the arrow slap.
Regards
Mike
Orda,
You are right, my right elbow is too low and I found is hard to correct my position.
If I shoot at distance and I keep the elbow position, it make a straight line with the bow hand and shoulders, but if I aim lower, at close range, is hard to elevate my elbow, so I lean the body a little forward, but the elbow still rest in a low position. I try to remember to elevate when I shot, but not work every time, sometime I forget.
Mike,
I try to keep the bow and the bow hand in position, standing, while the arrow leave the string and I lean it forward after that with a slow motion.
I try to do that but I don't succeed every time and when I succeed usually I have a good shoot.
I dont have a lighter korean bow, I have few hungarian bows but shhoting with these bows is very much different and I dont like them.
There are two different problems with my arrows. Sometime the arrow is going well, but still touching the grip, making a little noise but without shock and without fishtailing. Sometime the arrow really hit the grip and is going elsewhere.
I am not concerning about the first, even is not a real clean shoot, but the second problem really put me in trouble.
I shot today two hours and I cannot hit the 60cm target even at 20 meters. Something wrong is going on, I am shooting more and more badly. Slap after slap, all I do was wrong. Maybe is time to get a breake and make someting else for a while.
You are right, my right elbow is too low and I found is hard to correct my position.
If I shoot at distance and I keep the elbow position, it make a straight line with the bow hand and shoulders, but if I aim lower, at close range, is hard to elevate my elbow, so I lean the body a little forward, but the elbow still rest in a low position. I try to remember to elevate when I shot, but not work every time, sometime I forget.
Mike,
I try to keep the bow and the bow hand in position, standing, while the arrow leave the string and I lean it forward after that with a slow motion.
I try to do that but I don't succeed every time and when I succeed usually I have a good shoot.
I dont have a lighter korean bow, I have few hungarian bows but shhoting with these bows is very much different and I dont like them.
There are two different problems with my arrows. Sometime the arrow is going well, but still touching the grip, making a little noise but without shock and without fishtailing. Sometime the arrow really hit the grip and is going elsewhere.
I am not concerning about the first, even is not a real clean shoot, but the second problem really put me in trouble.
I shot today two hours and I cannot hit the 60cm target even at 20 meters. Something wrong is going on, I am shooting more and more badly. Slap after slap, all I do was wrong. Maybe is time to get a breake and make someting else for a while.
Ginni,
Taking a break might help. Sometimes you concentrate so hard on a problem that you produce new ones without being aware of it.
The heavier the bow you use, the more important is the way you hold it and how you draw the arrow. Though you are obviously a strong man, perhaps the bow is a little strong for you at the moment. You can practise for a while without a target so that you have no distractions from your draw and release. Over a few weeks, you should find that the arrow slapping reduces as you perfect your technique. It is hard to do this by yourself without someone to watch your form and help you. Don't get discouraged.
Though the bow is heavy, it might be good to shoot a few shots with a bare thumb and more with a leather thumb tab as see whether the slapping as bad. Don't shoot until your thumb gets sore because then you end up with other problems.
You are obviously closely watching the arrow in flight and keeping track of what you are doing. I am sure you will find a way around the problem. Good luck.
Taking a break might help. Sometimes you concentrate so hard on a problem that you produce new ones without being aware of it.
The heavier the bow you use, the more important is the way you hold it and how you draw the arrow. Though you are obviously a strong man, perhaps the bow is a little strong for you at the moment. You can practise for a while without a target so that you have no distractions from your draw and release. Over a few weeks, you should find that the arrow slapping reduces as you perfect your technique. It is hard to do this by yourself without someone to watch your form and help you. Don't get discouraged.
Though the bow is heavy, it might be good to shoot a few shots with a bare thumb and more with a leather thumb tab as see whether the slapping as bad. Don't shoot until your thumb gets sore because then you end up with other problems.
You are obviously closely watching the arrow in flight and keeping track of what you are doing. I am sure you will find a way around the problem. Good luck.
Orda,
I've got a bad shoulder and found that my string arm elbow was dropping below level with the arrow/bow arm line too. I've been working on this and have had a bit of success with cleaner arrow flights. When I pull with my arm too much (and not my back) my elbow tends to drop.
Also Bede's advise about taking a break can be good too. I depends on if you are feeling really frustrated or are having fun problem solving.
J.
I've got a bad shoulder and found that my string arm elbow was dropping below level with the arrow/bow arm line too. I've been working on this and have had a bit of success with cleaner arrow flights. When I pull with my arm too much (and not my back) my elbow tends to drop.
Also Bede's advise about taking a break can be good too. I depends on if you are feeling really frustrated or are having fun problem solving.
J.
Koreans nock the arrow about 1/2 inch above 90 degrees. Can anyone tell me why this is? -j-
I think the main thing to remember here is that imperfections in form creep up on all of us. I've been finding, over the last six months or so, an anchoring problem (note..I do not thumb draw) My anchor was always tucking my bent thumb into the curve of my jaw, just below the ear lobe. For some reason, I seem to be drawing more slowly than before and to a point (though no fixed reference) that just feels right for the release. I am aware that my draw is now not consistent yet trying to correct it is very difficult as the 'habit' does not want to go away. Oddly enough, my bad habit is giving better results than when I correct it :!: The only thing I can attribute this bad form to is possibly spending more time shooting 18m indoors this year, due to the awful weather we had in early Summer.
I think Bede's advice about removing the target is a good first step. Concentrate on the draw for a while, straight lines and especially, feel the work in your back muscles and when you eventually begin aiming again always be aware of this 'feel'. I would not take a break myself, you are obviously frustrated at this point and it is my belief that you should always take down your bow on a positive note. Rather than give in to frustration, remain calm, analise adjustments and enjoy finding the solution.
I think Bede's advice about removing the target is a good first step. Concentrate on the draw for a while, straight lines and especially, feel the work in your back muscles and when you eventually begin aiming again always be aware of this 'feel'. I would not take a break myself, you are obviously frustrated at this point and it is my belief that you should always take down your bow on a positive note. Rather than give in to frustration, remain calm, analise adjustments and enjoy finding the solution.
Thank you guys!
Is very good to have somebody to help when I am in trouble.
Is very good to have somebody to help when I am in trouble.
Eugen,
It's a pleasure!
When other archers bring up their problems and I think about them, it often helps me work out problems I'm having with my own shooting.
Also, ultimately our lives and careers (most of us) are not dependent on how well we shoot, so thinking about shooting problems is a nice distraction from all the other more 'serious' problems I face every day.
It'll feel good when you start to get it figured out and I'm sure you will. :)
J.
It's a pleasure!
When other archers bring up their problems and I think about them, it often helps me work out problems I'm having with my own shooting.
Also, ultimately our lives and careers (most of us) are not dependent on how well we shoot, so thinking about shooting problems is a nice distraction from all the other more 'serious' problems I face every day.
It'll feel good when you start to get it figured out and I'm sure you will. :)
J.
Koreans nock the arrow about 1/2 inch above 90 degrees. Can anyone tell me why this is?
is the koreans nock avoid the bow split nock? i has split nock trouble when i use skb. can you show the korean nock?
thanks
is the koreans nock avoid the bow split nock? i has split nock trouble when i use skb. can you show the korean nock?
thanks
Jiao,
The two commonest causes of split nocks are too tight a fit on the string (the nock is too small) and sideways pressure on the nock by the index finger in a thumb draw (caused by rotating the drawing hand towards the arrow).
Korean arrows have large nocks and large diameter strings to fit them. If you use ordinary sized nocks, they fit very tightly and drag on the string when you release. If there is even a small weakness in the nock, it may crack or split.
Is this like the problem you are writing about?
The two commonest causes of split nocks are too tight a fit on the string (the nock is too small) and sideways pressure on the nock by the index finger in a thumb draw (caused by rotating the drawing hand towards the arrow).
Korean arrows have large nocks and large diameter strings to fit them. If you use ordinary sized nocks, they fit very tightly and drag on the string when you release. If there is even a small weakness in the nock, it may crack or split.
Is this like the problem you are writing about?
Is this like the problem you are writing about?
thanks bede, it is a so perfect reply
thanks bede, it is a so perfect reply
Nocking high has something to do with aiming or flight dynamics. Does anyone nock high? Can you compare to nocking at 90 degrees? -j-
My nocking point is 1/8" to 1/4" above 90 degrees. At 90 degrees there is a porpoising of the arrow.
My nock is about 1,5" above the 90 degrees point.
If I put the arrow 5 mm under the nocking point, the arrow would scrap my thumb.
I think there are two factors that requiring such a high nicking point.
The lower limb of my bow is much stronger than the upper limb and the with grip hand I push the bow in the lower part of the grip.
So at full draw the lower limb is much bent than the upper.
I don't know why the koreans chose such tillering and technique, but if I push the grip low I feel like the arrow is little bit faster than pushing high on the grip.
Just an feeling, I have no chrono.
If I put the arrow 5 mm under the nocking point, the arrow would scrap my thumb.
I think there are two factors that requiring such a high nicking point.
The lower limb of my bow is much stronger than the upper limb and the with grip hand I push the bow in the lower part of the grip.
So at full draw the lower limb is much bent than the upper.
I don't know why the koreans chose such tillering and technique, but if I push the grip low I feel like the arrow is little bit faster than pushing high on the grip.
Just an feeling, I have no chrono.
Eugen,
Is that 1.5 inches above the 90 degree mark? You wrote 1,5" and wasn't sure what you ment.
J.
Is that 1.5 inches above the 90 degree mark? You wrote 1,5" and wasn't sure what you ment.
J.
Yes, one inch and half.
I've not used a Korean bow but I think an inch and a half is excessive.
I shot today few arrows after work and I shot pretty well (for my standards).
Still got some touching noise, but that not affect the fly.
I shot only with three arrows from 30 meters.
Usually two arrows near the cd and one fly; that is happening often, even when I have one of my best days I shot some fly arrows. I have no consistency.
Still got some touching noise, but that not affect the fly.
I shot only with three arrows from 30 meters.
Usually two arrows near the cd and one fly; that is happening often, even when I have one of my best days I shot some fly arrows. I have no consistency.
I'd say that was pretty damn accurate shooting for 30m myself. As for the one wayward arrow, I like to think of that as the 'bring you back to earth' arrow. Just when you think 'I'm invincible!' that arrow lets you know you are not :wink:
Oh yes!
I just have thought "how good I am" and the next flew into the bushes.
I just have thought "how good I am" and the next flew into the bushes.
Eugen,
Looks like pretty good shooting at 30m to me!
I nock my arrows about 5-10mm above 90 degrees, but shoot a 54" Saluki Turk off the knuckle. Why do you nock so high again?
J.
Looks like pretty good shooting at 30m to me!
I nock my arrows about 5-10mm above 90 degrees, but shoot a 54" Saluki Turk off the knuckle. Why do you nock so high again?
J.
I shoot with the arrow over my thumb, without glove or ring or any protection.
I just chose the point where the arrow is going clean, without touching my thumb.
I just chose the point where the arrow is going clean, without touching my thumb.
I'm not sure if this 1/2" measurement is correct, It really is determined by the width of a mans four fingers. They balance the bow on the side of the index finger then roll their hand flat, and where the pinky finger touches that is their nocking point. Their is a pictorial of these in Thomas Duvernays book Korean traditional Archery.
Matt
Matt
On the nocking height, I have seen modern archers using compound bows with nocking heights larger than 1.5 inches above 90 degrees, so its not unheard of.
Mike
Mike
Eugen,
I was re-reading all that we've been writing about here and also looked at your pictures again. I've thought about it all and came up with a few things related to your first problems of 'string creep', bow/arrow contact and string arm elbow drop. You may already be aware of all of these, but maybe you'll find something helpful. Here goes! :
1. Forget about shooting at any distance beyond 10m. Stay REAL close and work on form. I'd go with 5m and stay this close for a few weeks, maybe longer and come back to close shooting frequently to work on form.
2.FOCUS ON WHAT YOUR STRING ARM ELBOW IS DOING as you draw. If you keep it pointing 'up' as high as you can as you draw you will force your body to use more back muscle and less arm muscle. This may feel weird at first but before long your elbow will be in a nice straight line with the arrow and bow arm.
3. PUSH YOUR LEFT THUMB KNUCKLE TOWARD THE TARGET when you are at full draw (as though you were pointing toward the target with your thumb). Hold the rest of the bow fairly loosely with a little bit of pressure on the little and ring fingers.
4. Imagine pulling' your string arm elbow 'up and back' just before and as you are releasing the string.
5. Prevent your bow arm shoulder (humorous/scapula joint) from pressing up/in toward the side of your face, by tightening your left scapula a bit and just keeping the shoulder joint 'down'.
Steps #3 and #4 are largely mental exercises, but if you keep them in mind your body will do them a little bit. After many shots you should start to get a 'feel' how much pressure on the bow hand thumb/grip you need to get a 'clean' shot with little or no arrow/bow banging.
Step #3 notes: Upon release, your upper bow limb should point toward the target a bit and your string may swing to the right side of the bow a little bit. This is from the slight pressures of the bow hand, while at the same time keeping the grip fairly loose. These bow hand 'pressures' help the bow move away from the arrow upon release and the fairly loose grip allows the bow to swing freely away form the arrow flight path.
Step #4 notes: Keeping in mind that your elbow should point up will cause you to use your back muscles more and your arm muscles less. I can't tell you how many times I've heard archery coaches saying, 'Use your back muscles more!' but its really hard to think about your back muscles as you draw the bow! Instead of trying to think about my back; I have found that if I think about what my DRAW ARM ELBOW is doing, I use more upper back muscles and less arm muscles.
Just before you release think about having your DRAW ARM ELBOW move back just a little bit (like you are elbowing someone who is standing behind you in the nose!). This will help with two things: 1. Reduces lateral 'plucking' of the string which can lead to the arrow hitting the bow. and 2. It will help prevent string 'creep' at full draw.
Step #5 notes: This just helps keep your body and arrow in better alignment with the target which is ultimately good for consistency of draw length and (I think) preventing arrow/bow contact.
If you want to follow any of my suggestions, I would INTEGRATE ONE STEP AT A TIME!!!! There is a lot of information here and too much to do all at once! Eventually they become part of your instinctive form that you can do without thinking about.
I really enjoy getting close to the target and practicing like this! I call it 'archery yoga' because, like yoga, you have to bring your mind 'into' what your body is doing and take it 'away' from the target. I often practice 'archery yoga' with my eyes closed.
My wife took some video of me shooting the other day. As soon as I get it into my computer and edited, I'll post it on youtube. I have an old video there now, but I think my form is not good in it.
Last winter a Chinese thumb release master told me that my form was lousy! I'm sure he was (and is) correct to some degree. :roll: but he also suggested I think of my shooting like this: Holding a tiger by the tail. It actually made sense to me. If I understood him correctly, the tiger is the bow/arrow and it wants to attack the target but I am holding the tiger by the tip of its tail. As my grip slips off the tail, the tiger takes off like a bolt! This analogy gave me the feeling of the dynamic tension required in a clean release and helps me visualize and feel each shot. Each arrow is a tiger :twisted: I hope he sees and makes more helpful suggestions on my new video.
I post all this with deep humility and the knowledge that there probably are better ways to shoot with the thumbring, but this is what I'm doing now that has been helpful for me. It is a conglomerate of information gained from talking with, watching and reading about several masters and fellow thumbring archers who are still working it all out. Any constructive critiques of this method are HIGHLY WELCOME! Anything to improve my own shooting! :D
Keep us posted Eugen!
J.
I was re-reading all that we've been writing about here and also looked at your pictures again. I've thought about it all and came up with a few things related to your first problems of 'string creep', bow/arrow contact and string arm elbow drop. You may already be aware of all of these, but maybe you'll find something helpful. Here goes! :
1. Forget about shooting at any distance beyond 10m. Stay REAL close and work on form. I'd go with 5m and stay this close for a few weeks, maybe longer and come back to close shooting frequently to work on form.
2.FOCUS ON WHAT YOUR STRING ARM ELBOW IS DOING as you draw. If you keep it pointing 'up' as high as you can as you draw you will force your body to use more back muscle and less arm muscle. This may feel weird at first but before long your elbow will be in a nice straight line with the arrow and bow arm.
3. PUSH YOUR LEFT THUMB KNUCKLE TOWARD THE TARGET when you are at full draw (as though you were pointing toward the target with your thumb). Hold the rest of the bow fairly loosely with a little bit of pressure on the little and ring fingers.
4. Imagine pulling' your string arm elbow 'up and back' just before and as you are releasing the string.
5. Prevent your bow arm shoulder (humorous/scapula joint) from pressing up/in toward the side of your face, by tightening your left scapula a bit and just keeping the shoulder joint 'down'.
Steps #3 and #4 are largely mental exercises, but if you keep them in mind your body will do them a little bit. After many shots you should start to get a 'feel' how much pressure on the bow hand thumb/grip you need to get a 'clean' shot with little or no arrow/bow banging.
Step #3 notes: Upon release, your upper bow limb should point toward the target a bit and your string may swing to the right side of the bow a little bit. This is from the slight pressures of the bow hand, while at the same time keeping the grip fairly loose. These bow hand 'pressures' help the bow move away from the arrow upon release and the fairly loose grip allows the bow to swing freely away form the arrow flight path.
Step #4 notes: Keeping in mind that your elbow should point up will cause you to use your back muscles more and your arm muscles less. I can't tell you how many times I've heard archery coaches saying, 'Use your back muscles more!' but its really hard to think about your back muscles as you draw the bow! Instead of trying to think about my back; I have found that if I think about what my DRAW ARM ELBOW is doing, I use more upper back muscles and less arm muscles.
Just before you release think about having your DRAW ARM ELBOW move back just a little bit (like you are elbowing someone who is standing behind you in the nose!). This will help with two things: 1. Reduces lateral 'plucking' of the string which can lead to the arrow hitting the bow. and 2. It will help prevent string 'creep' at full draw.
Step #5 notes: This just helps keep your body and arrow in better alignment with the target which is ultimately good for consistency of draw length and (I think) preventing arrow/bow contact.
If you want to follow any of my suggestions, I would INTEGRATE ONE STEP AT A TIME!!!! There is a lot of information here and too much to do all at once! Eventually they become part of your instinctive form that you can do without thinking about.
I really enjoy getting close to the target and practicing like this! I call it 'archery yoga' because, like yoga, you have to bring your mind 'into' what your body is doing and take it 'away' from the target. I often practice 'archery yoga' with my eyes closed.
My wife took some video of me shooting the other day. As soon as I get it into my computer and edited, I'll post it on youtube. I have an old video there now, but I think my form is not good in it.
Last winter a Chinese thumb release master told me that my form was lousy! I'm sure he was (and is) correct to some degree. :roll: but he also suggested I think of my shooting like this: Holding a tiger by the tail. It actually made sense to me. If I understood him correctly, the tiger is the bow/arrow and it wants to attack the target but I am holding the tiger by the tip of its tail. As my grip slips off the tail, the tiger takes off like a bolt! This analogy gave me the feeling of the dynamic tension required in a clean release and helps me visualize and feel each shot. Each arrow is a tiger :twisted: I hope he sees and makes more helpful suggestions on my new video.
I post all this with deep humility and the knowledge that there probably are better ways to shoot with the thumbring, but this is what I'm doing now that has been helpful for me. It is a conglomerate of information gained from talking with, watching and reading about several masters and fellow thumbring archers who are still working it all out. Any constructive critiques of this method are HIGHLY WELCOME! Anything to improve my own shooting! :D
Keep us posted Eugen!
J.
Jason,
Thank you for your advices!
Is very interesting that almost all you said actually I try to keep in my mind when I am going to shooting.
Except the point 5, I am not sure that I understood right your words, I try to follow that rules every time.
Now I will try to check my left shoulder to see if I do that mistake. It can be, when I learnt to keep the left elbow pointed to left, not down, maybe I made that shoulder movement and I don't know.
I feel like my problems comes when, from some unknown reason, I cannot concentrate at my form. I try, but the target obsess me so much and the frustration is so big that even I start drawing with form in my mind, when I reach the full draw I think only at the target and the arrows will go anywhere but not in the target.
When my mind is clean and calm I can concetrate at my form with good results. If I can keep in my mind only the form, without thinking at the target, usually I will get a good shot.
All that things, elevating the elbow, drawing with back, pointing the target with the thubm, pushing low the grip, smooth release, punch back, all these come together wtihout problems if I am calm.
About close shooting. At 10 meters I get 100% breakage. At 15 meters no arrow will survive at 2 shots. Only 20 meters is a safe distance for my arrows.
Please tell me, do you keep the string and the arrow in touch with you face like the Koreans?
With the sugakji ring I had no problem to do that, even with little pressure with the string on my cheek, but with amgakji I dont feel safe.
Thank you for your advices!
Is very interesting that almost all you said actually I try to keep in my mind when I am going to shooting.
Except the point 5, I am not sure that I understood right your words, I try to follow that rules every time.
Now I will try to check my left shoulder to see if I do that mistake. It can be, when I learnt to keep the left elbow pointed to left, not down, maybe I made that shoulder movement and I don't know.
I feel like my problems comes when, from some unknown reason, I cannot concentrate at my form. I try, but the target obsess me so much and the frustration is so big that even I start drawing with form in my mind, when I reach the full draw I think only at the target and the arrows will go anywhere but not in the target.
When my mind is clean and calm I can concetrate at my form with good results. If I can keep in my mind only the form, without thinking at the target, usually I will get a good shot.
All that things, elevating the elbow, drawing with back, pointing the target with the thubm, pushing low the grip, smooth release, punch back, all these come together wtihout problems if I am calm.
About close shooting. At 10 meters I get 100% breakage. At 15 meters no arrow will survive at 2 shots. Only 20 meters is a safe distance for my arrows.
Please tell me, do you keep the string and the arrow in touch with you face like the Koreans?
With the sugakji ring I had no problem to do that, even with little pressure with the string on my cheek, but with amgakji I dont feel safe.
Eugen,
"About close shooting. At 10 meters I get 100% breakage. At 15 meters no arrow will survive at 2 shots. Only 20 meters is a safe distance for my arrows."
-Do you know what 're-bar' is? It is steel bars about 1/2" thick that they use as extra support for concrete cement structures. I think you should try fletching up and shooting that!!! :)
Seriously though, have you tried Easton aluminum 2317s, 2419s or 2613s sized aluminum arrows? I'd recommend the 2419s. They won't brake at 10m!
"I try, but the target obsess me so much and the frustration is so big that even I start drawing with form in my mind, when I reach the full draw I think only at the target and the arrows will go anywhere but not in the target.
When my mind is clean and calm I can concetrate at my form with good results. If I can keep in my mind only the form, without thinking at the target, usually I will get a good shot."
-I rarely say this to people, but here goes: I know exactly how you feel :!: It sounds like something called TARGET PANIC. Many archers have it. I have it too, although not so bad and not very often any more. If you are familiar with psychology at all you might understand the term 'stimulus response'. It means that when your brain receives a certain 'stimulation' it causes a physical reaction or 'response'. In our case when our brain perceives (sees) the target in line with the drawn bow/arrow, it sends a signal for us to release the arrow, even if we aren't at full draw or fully 'settled' in on the bullseye. The result is that we miss! The stimulation of having the target and bow/arrow lined up is to much and our brain seeks release the only way it knows how; by releasing the arrow. The stress can be made worse by having people watching you shoot, increasing draw weight, increasing shot distance, being hung over from too much alcohol (like I was the other day) :( not getting enough sleep and probably a million other things. I've been dealing with it for over 25 years :!: AARRGH :!:
There are ways of easing it or even getting rid of it though. I recomend a book by a sports psychologist named 'Jay Kidder' He's studied target panic alot and really knows his stuff. I can't remember the name right now, but will post it later. The way that works best for me is to get between 5 adn 10 meters away and simply work on form. When you're that close your connection to the target is very strong and there is little stress. This allows you to have MUCH better shooting form. I work on developing 'muscle memory' at close range working on good shooting form a lot. Then I take a step back and do the same. then another step back and so forth. It depends on the archer, but it may take months of slowly doing this. If you start to feel the TARGET PANIC coming back, get closer to the target. Close enough to not feel it anymore. Some people feel target panic no matter how close they get and need a blind fold to start with! Then they take off the blind fold, then start moving back. Again, this can take days, weeks or even months!
J.
"About close shooting. At 10 meters I get 100% breakage. At 15 meters no arrow will survive at 2 shots. Only 20 meters is a safe distance for my arrows."
-Do you know what 're-bar' is? It is steel bars about 1/2" thick that they use as extra support for concrete cement structures. I think you should try fletching up and shooting that!!! :)
Seriously though, have you tried Easton aluminum 2317s, 2419s or 2613s sized aluminum arrows? I'd recommend the 2419s. They won't brake at 10m!
"I try, but the target obsess me so much and the frustration is so big that even I start drawing with form in my mind, when I reach the full draw I think only at the target and the arrows will go anywhere but not in the target.
When my mind is clean and calm I can concetrate at my form with good results. If I can keep in my mind only the form, without thinking at the target, usually I will get a good shot."
-I rarely say this to people, but here goes: I know exactly how you feel :!: It sounds like something called TARGET PANIC. Many archers have it. I have it too, although not so bad and not very often any more. If you are familiar with psychology at all you might understand the term 'stimulus response'. It means that when your brain receives a certain 'stimulation' it causes a physical reaction or 'response'. In our case when our brain perceives (sees) the target in line with the drawn bow/arrow, it sends a signal for us to release the arrow, even if we aren't at full draw or fully 'settled' in on the bullseye. The result is that we miss! The stimulation of having the target and bow/arrow lined up is to much and our brain seeks release the only way it knows how; by releasing the arrow. The stress can be made worse by having people watching you shoot, increasing draw weight, increasing shot distance, being hung over from too much alcohol (like I was the other day) :( not getting enough sleep and probably a million other things. I've been dealing with it for over 25 years :!: AARRGH :!:
There are ways of easing it or even getting rid of it though. I recomend a book by a sports psychologist named 'Jay Kidder' He's studied target panic alot and really knows his stuff. I can't remember the name right now, but will post it later. The way that works best for me is to get between 5 adn 10 meters away and simply work on form. When you're that close your connection to the target is very strong and there is little stress. This allows you to have MUCH better shooting form. I work on developing 'muscle memory' at close range working on good shooting form a lot. Then I take a step back and do the same. then another step back and so forth. It depends on the archer, but it may take months of slowly doing this. If you start to feel the TARGET PANIC coming back, get closer to the target. Close enough to not feel it anymore. Some people feel target panic no matter how close they get and need a blind fold to start with! Then they take off the blind fold, then start moving back. Again, this can take days, weeks or even months!
J.
Eugen,
"Please tell me, do you keep the string and the arrow in touch with you face like the Koreans? "
Forgot to answer your question!
I draw my ring to my mid neck and my string touches the side of my face just behind my eyebrow. This causes my arrow shaft to run parallel to my jawline, but just a little bit below my jaw.
I've dislocated my shoulders a few times and my string arm (right) shoulder has limited range of motion. If I draw too far back, my draw arm drops below the line of my bow arm/arrow.
J.
"Please tell me, do you keep the string and the arrow in touch with you face like the Koreans? "
Forgot to answer your question!
I draw my ring to my mid neck and my string touches the side of my face just behind my eyebrow. This causes my arrow shaft to run parallel to my jawline, but just a little bit below my jaw.
I've dislocated my shoulders a few times and my string arm (right) shoulder has limited range of motion. If I draw too far back, my draw arm drops below the line of my bow arm/arrow.
J.
I just received the Korean Archery book from prof. Thomas Duvernay.
Trying to nocking the string I found the nock exactly where I have made it by guess.
Just coincidence? I don't know, but now I am more relaxed, I solved a questionable issue.
Trying to nocking the string I found the nock exactly where I have made it by guess.
Just coincidence? I don't know, but now I am more relaxed, I solved a questionable issue.
GOOD!
I still gotta get Tom's book!
J.
I still gotta get Tom's book!
J.