Hornbow performance
I have been looking at the fine work of Lukas Novotny and am very interested in getting one in hopefully the not too distant future.
The bow styles that I have been looking at are the Crab , Crimean , and the Turkish.
I was wondering if any of you have some thoughts on these different style hornbows how they perform as compared to each other. Their shooting style feel and so forth. I am new to this style of archery and would greatly appreciate any guidance, information or opinions from those of you with more knowledge than I.
Best regards,
Alan
The bow styles that I have been looking at are the Crab , Crimean , and the Turkish.
I was wondering if any of you have some thoughts on these different style hornbows how they perform as compared to each other. Their shooting style feel and so forth. I am new to this style of archery and would greatly appreciate any guidance, information or opinions from those of you with more knowledge than I.
Best regards,
Alan
Alan,
Before you compare bows, you have to ask yourself what type of shooting you want to do with it. The main uses nowadays are target, hunting and flight. A target bow needs to be regular in its performance and easy enough to shoot all day. A hunting bow needs accuracy and the power to shoot your hunting arrows. In flight shooting, you need a bow that is fast with light arrows. Accuracy and comfort are not that important.
Before you compare bows, you have to ask yourself what type of shooting you want to do with it. The main uses nowadays are target, hunting and flight. A target bow needs to be regular in its performance and easy enough to shoot all day. A hunting bow needs accuracy and the power to shoot your hunting arrows. In flight shooting, you need a bow that is fast with light arrows. Accuracy and comfort are not that important.
Bede,
Thanx for the reply. I would be using the bow for target & hunting for the most part and would very much like to become involved with mounted archery.
I am also interested in long distance shooting at targets. Would be great if one bow would be able to perform in these three categories.
I have been involved in archery on and off most of my life and have always wanted to become involved with Asian hornbows but did not know where to go. So very glad to find this site and the trove of knowledge that it offers.
All the best,
Alan
Thanx for the reply. I would be using the bow for target & hunting for the most part and would very much like to become involved with mounted archery.
I am also interested in long distance shooting at targets. Would be great if one bow would be able to perform in these three categories.
I have been involved in archery on and off most of my life and have always wanted to become involved with Asian hornbows but did not know where to go. So very glad to find this site and the trove of knowledge that it offers.
All the best,
Alan
Alan
Bow available for sale now are not usually faithful replicas of old bow styles. They are either hybrids or inventions. In this situation, I suggest to look at the overall length of bows as it relates to your draw length. For example true Turkish short bows will not be comfortable to shoot, if your draw length is more than 27-28 inches unless made longer. Even the Turks themselves would use a "loose fit" longer bow for the ease of drawing. Other types may suit you better. Generally a 30in draw requires a min. 50in ntn hornbow bow for target shooting, maybe a little shorter for hunting. If your draw length is over 32in, a longer Crim-Tatar or Mongolian/Manchu will be better. This applies to hornbows, but for modern glass replicas it may be safer to pick even longer bows. On the other hand, if you are strong, a shorter, stacking bow may not bother you too much.
Adam
Bow available for sale now are not usually faithful replicas of old bow styles. They are either hybrids or inventions. In this situation, I suggest to look at the overall length of bows as it relates to your draw length. For example true Turkish short bows will not be comfortable to shoot, if your draw length is more than 27-28 inches unless made longer. Even the Turks themselves would use a "loose fit" longer bow for the ease of drawing. Other types may suit you better. Generally a 30in draw requires a min. 50in ntn hornbow bow for target shooting, maybe a little shorter for hunting. If your draw length is over 32in, a longer Crim-Tatar or Mongolian/Manchu will be better. This applies to hornbows, but for modern glass replicas it may be safer to pick even longer bows. On the other hand, if you are strong, a shorter, stacking bow may not bother you too much.
Adam
adam
it will mean in this world has no a bowyer can make a hornbow 50in long but over 32in draw and draw weight 80pound?
http://198.170.108.27/phpBB2/images/ava ... 5d2270.gif
it seemed some pictures show han dynasty archer over 32in draw
it will mean in this world has no a bowyer can make a hornbow 50in long but over 32in draw and draw weight 80pound?
http://198.170.108.27/phpBB2/images/ava ... 5d2270.gif
it seemed some pictures show han dynasty archer over 32in draw
Adam,
thank you very much for your advice. I draw 271/2 ' with my 80# Hill style longbow. Not sure what my draw length will be with a thumb ring. How much draw length does one usually gain switching from a split finger to a thumb ring? In a horn bow what style would you recommend? I am really drawn to the crab style, as well as the Turkish and to a lesser degree the Crimean. I am just getting somewhat conversant with the different types of horn bows. Can you suggest how that I may become better educated in the different styles of horn bows, perchance a good reference book?
Do you have an opinion on the best combination of performance and stability?
I greatly appreciate this input from all.
All the best,
Alan
thank you very much for your advice. I draw 271/2 ' with my 80# Hill style longbow. Not sure what my draw length will be with a thumb ring. How much draw length does one usually gain switching from a split finger to a thumb ring? In a horn bow what style would you recommend? I am really drawn to the crab style, as well as the Turkish and to a lesser degree the Crimean. I am just getting somewhat conversant with the different types of horn bows. Can you suggest how that I may become better educated in the different styles of horn bows, perchance a good reference book?
Do you have an opinion on the best combination of performance and stability?
I greatly appreciate this input from all.
All the best,
Alan
Alan,
Try http://anthromuseum.missouri.edu/grayson/grayson.shtml
Although only pictures, it gives you a good feel for some of the different hornbow cultures. There is also much in the Atarn archives (go to atarn.org, and look under contents guide)
If you want to see Turkish/Ottoman styles go to http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=adyona&p=r
If you hunt around on Youtube you will also find Yokhua shooting one of his hornbows in a Chinese style.
Look here,
http://www.koreanarchery.org/WTAF/
and you will see a huge variety of bows and styles
Enjoy
Try http://anthromuseum.missouri.edu/grayson/grayson.shtml
Although only pictures, it gives you a good feel for some of the different hornbow cultures. There is also much in the Atarn archives (go to atarn.org, and look under contents guide)
If you want to see Turkish/Ottoman styles go to http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=adyona&p=r
If you hunt around on Youtube you will also find Yokhua shooting one of his hornbows in a Chinese style.
Look here,
http://www.koreanarchery.org/WTAF/
and you will see a huge variety of bows and styles
Enjoy
Alan:
Your draw length with the ring will depend on the style you choose: thumb to the jaw, to the ear, or to the shoulder. At this point, it may be best to pick a non-stacking, light-weight bow of any kind and try the different styles with a ring to see what suits you. Buying now a bow of a particular type may be a waste of money, especially if a hornbow. I learned the thumb draw with a cheap solid glass kids bow which I cut down to increase the weight. Since I chose the Turkish method, I now draw 28in (I drew 26in with 3-fingers before). Mughal bow would be drawn to around 28-29in, but the Crim-Tatar 32-34in. To avoid stability issues, a beginner should stay away from true hornbows, but rather get a glass replica. I am sure others at this forum who teach the technique are better qualified to answer your question.
Jiao - making a 50in hornbow 80lb at 32in draw is not a problem. Such bow may not be however pleasant enough to use for all-day target shooting.
Adam
Your draw length with the ring will depend on the style you choose: thumb to the jaw, to the ear, or to the shoulder. At this point, it may be best to pick a non-stacking, light-weight bow of any kind and try the different styles with a ring to see what suits you. Buying now a bow of a particular type may be a waste of money, especially if a hornbow. I learned the thumb draw with a cheap solid glass kids bow which I cut down to increase the weight. Since I chose the Turkish method, I now draw 28in (I drew 26in with 3-fingers before). Mughal bow would be drawn to around 28-29in, but the Crim-Tatar 32-34in. To avoid stability issues, a beginner should stay away from true hornbows, but rather get a glass replica. I am sure others at this forum who teach the technique are better qualified to answer your question.
Jiao - making a 50in hornbow 80lb at 32in draw is not a problem. Such bow may not be however pleasant enough to use for all-day target shooting.
Adam
Adam , Once again thanx for this much needed information. I am indeed looking for a bow to learn with before I move up to a horn bow.
Do you have any thoughts as to the feel and performance of the three types of bows/draw methods that we are discussing? I am just trying to wrap my mind around this whole thing and get a feel for the most likely direction that I am heading.
When you speak of stability issues , what is it that you refer to , limb twisting and so forth? Please elaborate if you will.
Regards,
Alan
Do you have any thoughts as to the feel and performance of the three types of bows/draw methods that we are discussing? I am just trying to wrap my mind around this whole thing and get a feel for the most likely direction that I am heading.
When you speak of stability issues , what is it that you refer to , limb twisting and so forth? Please elaborate if you will.
Regards,
Alan
Alan:
Re stability: the hornbows may require adjustments to correct for twist and for the balance of limbs. Every person has slightly different style of release and grip hold, unpredictable by the bowyer, so this is normal. Such corrections can only be made by the archer himself, unless the bowyer is close by to help. This is not a big deal with a little practice, but can be discouraging for a beginner.
As to performance: most well made bows will have fairly close performance with heavier arrows in the order of 8 or more grains of arrow mass per pound of draw weight. This range of arrow mass is common in target and hunting arrows. It means it is not going to be a difference big enough to bother worrying about. If one wants to shoot lighter arrows, such as for flight shooting, then short and lighter bow limbs become important, which leads to Turkish bows, or relatively short bows, but with a longer draw, such as Korean as the second choice.
Good luck
Adam
Re stability: the hornbows may require adjustments to correct for twist and for the balance of limbs. Every person has slightly different style of release and grip hold, unpredictable by the bowyer, so this is normal. Such corrections can only be made by the archer himself, unless the bowyer is close by to help. This is not a big deal with a little practice, but can be discouraging for a beginner.
As to performance: most well made bows will have fairly close performance with heavier arrows in the order of 8 or more grains of arrow mass per pound of draw weight. This range of arrow mass is common in target and hunting arrows. It means it is not going to be a difference big enough to bother worrying about. If one wants to shoot lighter arrows, such as for flight shooting, then short and lighter bow limbs become important, which leads to Turkish bows, or relatively short bows, but with a longer draw, such as Korean as the second choice.
Good luck
Adam
Adam,
Ah once again thank you for your explanation. Now the adjustment /balancing of the limbs sounds a bit less intimidating . Is this something that is regularly done at every stringing , or as an as needed correction when noticed?
As for arrow weigh I would venture that I would be shooting the target/hunting weight for the most part.
The crab style bow would this be considered a Moguhl style?
Regards,
Alan
Ah once again thank you for your explanation. Now the adjustment /balancing of the limbs sounds a bit less intimidating . Is this something that is regularly done at every stringing , or as an as needed correction when noticed?
As for arrow weigh I would venture that I would be shooting the target/hunting weight for the most part.
The crab style bow would this be considered a Moguhl style?
Regards,
Alan
Alan, a hornbow normally needs adjustment before it is shot (every time) and often during shooting. There is an exception for old, heavy Manchu bows with broad limbs, which were very stable and might be left strung for long periods.Alan Flashing wrote:
Adam,
Is this something that is regularly done at every stringing , or as an as needed correction when noticed? Alan
But no modern reproductions (that I am aware of) are made like that. Unfortunately, its the stringing/unstringing that gives rise to the need for adjustment. Some makers of hornbows will not even agree to sell to novice hornbow shooters. Others will give no guarantees on their bows.
Errors in shooting technique can cause hornbows to deform, as can inexpert stringing/unstringing. (e.g. 'step through' unstringing.)
Conclusion: you should learn to shoot in an Asian style (appropriate to the type of bow you plan to shoot) using a bomb-proof, low-cost bow first. Then when you plan to buy a horn bow, you should discuss with the bowyer and get directions on adjustment and maintenance direct from the horse's mouth. If for example, you planned to shoot a Korean hornbow and you did not follow this advice, you would inevitably lose a lot of money (and maybe get hurt in the process).
S
Thank you Stephen,
A sobering thought to say the least. Just trying to figure out the direction that I think that I wish to go and try to buy something in a Similar style to learn on. I do know that I wish to use it in mounted archery as well, so length would be a factor.
At this point that all I have to work on is my feeling for the shape or profile that I see in a bow , and see if it is suited to the style of shooting I intend to pursue. I guess what I was looking for was shooting impressions of these different types of bows from those of you who have shot them.
I can use all the information I can get to make an informed decision.
Regards,
Alan
A sobering thought to say the least. Just trying to figure out the direction that I think that I wish to go and try to buy something in a Similar style to learn on. I do know that I wish to use it in mounted archery as well, so length would be a factor.
At this point that all I have to work on is my feeling for the shape or profile that I see in a bow , and see if it is suited to the style of shooting I intend to pursue. I guess what I was looking for was shooting impressions of these different types of bows from those of you who have shot them.
I can use all the information I can get to make an informed decision.
Regards,
Alan
Alan,
My favourite hornbow for horseback shooting is a Hungarian-style bow from Grozer. It is very stable and novice-friendly. It also has good resistance to damp and higher temperatures (although inevitably it softens when warm.) Grozer designed it to be tough and stable above all else - a sort of 'my first hornbow'.
However, I still recommend learning the technique and talking to the bowyer, as per my last post. Ity's like buying those high-end radio controlled model planes. Really 8) but an expensive way to learn the sport...
S
My favourite hornbow for horseback shooting is a Hungarian-style bow from Grozer. It is very stable and novice-friendly. It also has good resistance to damp and higher temperatures (although inevitably it softens when warm.) Grozer designed it to be tough and stable above all else - a sort of 'my first hornbow'.
However, I still recommend learning the technique and talking to the bowyer, as per my last post. Ity's like buying those high-end radio controlled model planes. Really 8) but an expensive way to learn the sport...
S
Hello Stephen,
As always thanx for your appreciated input. Looking at Grozers Hungarian style bow, which model are you referring to The laminated horn bow or one of his other laminated bows like the TRH. Of his different lay ups which one do you feel performs the best? Is the most stable?
I am slowly taking all this in, so much to learn. I am not new to archery just to the Asian bows and so forth.
Regards,
Alan
As always thanx for your appreciated input. Looking at Grozers Hungarian style bow, which model are you referring to The laminated horn bow or one of his other laminated bows like the TRH. Of his different lay ups which one do you feel performs the best? Is the most stable?
I am slowly taking all this in, so much to learn. I am not new to archery just to the Asian bows and so forth.
Regards,
Alan
Alan,
Regarding your interest in crab bows, don't think there are too many around that are performing as well as they might. Because most bowyers concentrated on the more well known bow types, that is where their expertise has been developed.
Both Adam and Stephen's advice is excellent. You need to get a feel for the shooting style before you select a horn composite bow. Also consider that it always easier to practise with a longer bow than a shorter bow and the same goes for lighter weight.
The Turks always started their practice with a light bow, built their muscle memory with it and then moved on to heavier bows to build their strength.
Regarding your interest in crab bows, don't think there are too many around that are performing as well as they might. Because most bowyers concentrated on the more well known bow types, that is where their expertise has been developed.
Both Adam and Stephen's advice is excellent. You need to get a feel for the shooting style before you select a horn composite bow. Also consider that it always easier to practise with a longer bow than a shorter bow and the same goes for lighter weight.
The Turks always started their practice with a light bow, built their muscle memory with it and then moved on to heavier bows to build their strength.
Bede, Sound advice. I was just looking at a photo of Lucas Novotny shooting one of his Crab bows... what a lovely profile at full draw. This is what started me looking at the Crab/Moguhl style bows. I think that just to start I will take Adam's advice and get a fiberglass bow to start using the thumb ring while I figure out my first Asian bow ,but would still like to have a nice bow to start with. Then at least I can take my time with the whole horn bow decision.
Alan
Alan
It would be the Hungarian Extra III model - one of these -Alan Flashing wrote:
Hello Stephen,
As always thanx for your appreciated input. Looking at Grozers Hungarian style bow, which model are you referring to The laminated horn bow or one of his other laminated bows like the TRH. Of his different lay ups which one do you feel performs the best? Is the most stable?
I am slowly taking all this in, so much to learn. I am not new to archery just to the Asian bows and so forth.
Regards,
Alan
[external image]
![[external image]](http://www.grozerarchery.com/g/nat/natur2.jpg){kind=link}
I think a normal guy should be able to draw his kilo weight in lb. If he is 80kg he should draw 80 lb. And thats a normal person with normal health. With practice it shall raise more.
On short bows the thumb draw gives less finger pinch then three finger draw gives. The handle on back gives a inch more draw length but on a longer bow the handle can be on belly side for the opposite, you need to have the bows longer from your anchor point to get bend in limbs.
Finally it's the arrow speed that counts. 200+ fps is nice to have from horseback, less and the flying time of arrow is to long.
Training with weak bows is over rated.
I must add that I shoot only 65lb bows and my weight is 78kg :) but I can handle bows at 80 lb weight.
On short bows the thumb draw gives less finger pinch then three finger draw gives. The handle on back gives a inch more draw length but on a longer bow the handle can be on belly side for the opposite, you need to have the bows longer from your anchor point to get bend in limbs.
Finally it's the arrow speed that counts. 200+ fps is nice to have from horseback, less and the flying time of arrow is to long.
Training with weak bows is over rated.
I must add that I shoot only 65lb bows and my weight is 78kg :) but I can handle bows at 80 lb weight.
Stephen,
Thanx for the clarification.
Redhorse,
Thanx for your input as well, I too am an enthusiast of the heavy draw weight bow. I weigh around 77 kilos and shoot a 36+ kilo longbow(80#).
I would strive to shoot the same in an Asian bow on foot or mounted.
I see that you are from Sweden. I am an artist blacksmith and did some of my journeyman ship work in Germany and Sweden .
While in Sweden I lived near Svenshogen and worked with a master smith named Berth Johansson.
Alan
Thanx for the clarification.
Redhorse,
Thanx for your input as well, I too am an enthusiast of the heavy draw weight bow. I weigh around 77 kilos and shoot a 36+ kilo longbow(80#).
I would strive to shoot the same in an Asian bow on foot or mounted.
I see that you are from Sweden. I am an artist blacksmith and did some of my journeyman ship work in Germany and Sweden .
While in Sweden I lived near Svenshogen and worked with a master smith named Berth Johansson.
Alan
I found this thread very useful. I feel in a similar situation than Alan, the difference is that I have years in archery and also I have experience with the thumb ring and cheap glass bows. I feel like I'm ready to graduate to a hornbow. I'm considering a short Turkish bow or a longer Crimean Tartar.
I'm also worried about the care and maintenance.
I'm also worried about the care and maintenance.
It's not something you need to worry about: it's just that you need to know that it has to happen and find out how to do it properly. It's no different from having a nice violin: you can't just play it and ignore the maintenance.Jos?Dom wrote:
I'm also worried about the care and maintenance.
Yes it all seems to make scene These are fine tuned instruments of living material, not to be used lightly and carelessly tossed aside.
It is just sometimes the talk of the associated care can be a tad daunting.
But I think not enough to deter me.
Alan
It is just sometimes the talk of the associated care can be a tad daunting.
But I think not enough to deter me.
Alan
There are many things to consider before parting with a sizeable chunk of hard earned cash.
Here in Wales it feels like it has rained for two years, the term 'global warming' has been replaced with 'environment change', we just had a brief taste of what summer should feel like - three hot sunny days...24 degrees C :? . This morning (now I have chance to work on my bow) it rains. Again!!!
I use my bow for Field Archery, it's a Kassai Hun, with leather covering the limbs. Even with glass fibre limbs, I am loathed to use it in the rain; we all know how wet leather goes when it dries. After paying to participate, the weather takes a turn for the worse and you have to decide ... Nowadays, I rub vaseline over the leather and it does a good job. I recently bought my wife a Falcon 1 model, laminated Hun which only requires a wipe down at the end of the day.
With an expensive hornbow I would have a problem, it would be mainly used in our 18m indoor range. Too much expense for too little use :( , that is why I am building my own. Imagine ruining any of the beautiful bows we see posted by ATARNos.
Here in Wales it feels like it has rained for two years, the term 'global warming' has been replaced with 'environment change', we just had a brief taste of what summer should feel like - three hot sunny days...24 degrees C :? . This morning (now I have chance to work on my bow) it rains. Again!!!
I use my bow for Field Archery, it's a Kassai Hun, with leather covering the limbs. Even with glass fibre limbs, I am loathed to use it in the rain; we all know how wet leather goes when it dries. After paying to participate, the weather takes a turn for the worse and you have to decide ... Nowadays, I rub vaseline over the leather and it does a good job. I recently bought my wife a Falcon 1 model, laminated Hun which only requires a wipe down at the end of the day.
With an expensive hornbow I would have a problem, it would be mainly used in our 18m indoor range. Too much expense for too little use :( , that is why I am building my own. Imagine ruining any of the beautiful bows we see posted by ATARNos.
I did some shooting from my wifes PRE horse. The bow is about 70 lb and more depending how long I draw. At 200 fps the arrow hit with almost no side drift in my arena. The light was not enough for pictures in gallop.
This was my 3 years sons first shooting from horseback. And he got problem with the length of the bow, 37". I can handle 58" but the 48" hornbow is much easier to use. On my horse I can have the quiver on left side , he has the mane to the right side. But not on this horse, mane the left side. So I have the arrows in my boots. I prefer left side on horseback and right side on ground.
This was my 3 years sons first shooting from horseback. And he got problem with the length of the bow, 37". I can handle 58" but the 48" hornbow is much easier to use. On my horse I can have the quiver on left side , he has the mane to the right side. But not on this horse, mane the left side. So I have the arrows in my boots. I prefer left side on horseback and right side on ground.
Again, it comes down to a question on what you use the bow for and how much. With all respect to Redhorse, I would personally not recommend anyone 70+ lbs on horseback if they intend to compete in it:
A couple of arrows will work fine, but for several runs in Hungarian-style competition (9 runs usually; I hear Die Steppenreiter in Germany are changing to 6 next year) aiming at shooting 6-10 arrows in 18 seconds at a reasonably normal draw will cause damage to your arms or shoulders in the long run.
It's not the weight itself, it's the fact that you draw and loose so quickly. Not to mention that any handschock present in the bow will feel stronger if you hold a bunch of arrows in your bowhand, Kassai-style, thereby adding the risk of injury to your wrist.
However, that type of competition is not the only type around, and I can certainly see a stronger bow being easy to use for Korean track (with 1, 2 or 5 targets shot from side), Mogu and whatever that Turkish thing with the target on a pole is called.
Though perhaps a too strong bow may be dangerous in Mogu: Even with blunted tips, the damage to the horse dragging the target may be severe if it bounces somehow or even worse if missing target and hitting straight on that horse's legs.
But this feels more like a discussion for the Horseback Archery topic on this forum ;-)
Back to question of weights:
There is still reason to hold back early on, if you have the money to buy a cheaper one which you may later use to lend out to friends, other family members or whatever it may be and then - once you have really gotten a feel for what differences there are between bowtypes, especially if changing to thumbdraw - go for a real piece.
Right now I only have pretty cheap bows (ranging between 150-255 ?) in the following weights (measured at 28 of course) and drawlengths:
42#, 29" draw
45#, 34" draw
53#, 32" draw
I use them for practising different techniques - the shortest for turkish style with the short follow-through, and the others for both fast-shooting and Asian draw and follow-through - and I would personally say that drawing the 45 (Gr?zer Mongolian) to my natural drawlength (at chestheight that is) of 32 feels much like drawing an ELB at about 60 to the same point.
A couple of arrows will work fine, but for several runs in Hungarian-style competition (9 runs usually; I hear Die Steppenreiter in Germany are changing to 6 next year) aiming at shooting 6-10 arrows in 18 seconds at a reasonably normal draw will cause damage to your arms or shoulders in the long run.
It's not the weight itself, it's the fact that you draw and loose so quickly. Not to mention that any handschock present in the bow will feel stronger if you hold a bunch of arrows in your bowhand, Kassai-style, thereby adding the risk of injury to your wrist.
However, that type of competition is not the only type around, and I can certainly see a stronger bow being easy to use for Korean track (with 1, 2 or 5 targets shot from side), Mogu and whatever that Turkish thing with the target on a pole is called.
Though perhaps a too strong bow may be dangerous in Mogu: Even with blunted tips, the damage to the horse dragging the target may be severe if it bounces somehow or even worse if missing target and hitting straight on that horse's legs.
But this feels more like a discussion for the Horseback Archery topic on this forum ;-)
Back to question of weights:
There is still reason to hold back early on, if you have the money to buy a cheaper one which you may later use to lend out to friends, other family members or whatever it may be and then - once you have really gotten a feel for what differences there are between bowtypes, especially if changing to thumbdraw - go for a real piece.
Right now I only have pretty cheap bows (ranging between 150-255 ?) in the following weights (measured at 28 of course) and drawlengths:
42#, 29" draw
45#, 34" draw
53#, 32" draw
I use them for practising different techniques - the shortest for turkish style with the short follow-through, and the others for both fast-shooting and Asian draw and follow-through - and I would personally say that drawing the 45 (Gr?zer Mongolian) to my natural drawlength (at chestheight that is) of 32 feels much like drawing an ELB at about 60 to the same point.
Can you elaborate on this because I dont understand what you mean by this paragraph. Including the last sentence.robno wrote:
I use them for practising different techniques - the shortest for turkish style with the short follow-through, and the others for both fast-shooting and Asian draw and follow-through - and I would personally say that drawing the 45 (Gr?zer Mongolian) to my natural drawlength (at chestheight that is) of 32 feels much like drawing an ELB at about 60 to the same point.
The target on the pole is kabak shooting.
Modern horse back archery is a form of target archery and should be treated similarly. What is the advantage of a heavy bow? It gives greater penetration and greater range if it is efficient. You do not need these features in modern horseback archery. You are shooting at short range and at soft targets. They can be disadvantages if you miss. The arrows are scattered over the countryside or penetrate deeply into posts and other objects.
However, if you take up penetration shooting, like the Turkish zarb/darb shooting, you need the heaviest bow you can shoot comfortably. You need weight for penetration and comfort to make sure you get a smooth release to insure the arrow strikes at ninety degrees to the surface of the target (usually a piece of metal).
Heavy bows pull the string off the thumb or fingers more positively and hides poor shooting technique. Lack of techniques causes you to tire more quickly, shoot inconsistently and possibly injure yourself or the bow. Any tradition that involved training for war concentrated on technique because mistakes and injuries could prove fatal in battle.
There is a mounted archery target that requires a heavy bow and a super robust arrow and that is qighaj shooting where you shoot at a hard object on the ground as you gallop past. The ordinary version used a mound of earth, but there are illustrations of shields being used as the target. Many heavy amaji arrows are designed for this sport as well as shooting down from walls on armoured enemies.
It is easier for the archer to shoot the bow he or she is familiar with, but it is sometimes better to use the bow most suitable for the exercise.
Modern horse back archery is a form of target archery and should be treated similarly. What is the advantage of a heavy bow? It gives greater penetration and greater range if it is efficient. You do not need these features in modern horseback archery. You are shooting at short range and at soft targets. They can be disadvantages if you miss. The arrows are scattered over the countryside or penetrate deeply into posts and other objects.
However, if you take up penetration shooting, like the Turkish zarb/darb shooting, you need the heaviest bow you can shoot comfortably. You need weight for penetration and comfort to make sure you get a smooth release to insure the arrow strikes at ninety degrees to the surface of the target (usually a piece of metal).
Heavy bows pull the string off the thumb or fingers more positively and hides poor shooting technique. Lack of techniques causes you to tire more quickly, shoot inconsistently and possibly injure yourself or the bow. Any tradition that involved training for war concentrated on technique because mistakes and injuries could prove fatal in battle.
There is a mounted archery target that requires a heavy bow and a super robust arrow and that is qighaj shooting where you shoot at a hard object on the ground as you gallop past. The ordinary version used a mound of earth, but there are illustrations of shields being used as the target. Many heavy amaji arrows are designed for this sport as well as shooting down from walls on armoured enemies.
It is easier for the archer to shoot the bow he or she is familiar with, but it is sometimes better to use the bow most suitable for the exercise.