Photo of a Subeshi bow

Andrew,
I have recently rediscovered some drawings Stephen Selby sent we when I wrote my original article on Xinjiang Scythian-style bows. I intend to put together another paper on this information more directed at how they were constructed. Stephen had made very detailed observations of both construction and cross sections. I used them for my drawings but never fully exploited the detail.

I will talk to him soon about what he thinks of the project.

Hello Bade;
Could you give me the detail of its profile and construction as well. I like the bow so much and wanted to build a exact replica. Will build two, one for you,one for me.... How about that

Jang,yuhua

That sounds like an offer I can't refuse. You will have to interpret the dimensions because I believe Stephen looked at two bows at least. Even with his accurate observations, I am not entirely sure where the bow was held.

Will you be going to WTAF in Korea? I shall be there and can bring some drawings.

Yokhua: I have a broken one here. Looking at the detail, it will drive you mad to make one in the authentic manner: they were made up of a mosaic of small pieces.

Is this the one? I still need to finish tillering it.

Adam

Stephen,
I still haven't figured out what you meant by what you drew for the grip section. Was the side-by-side three part core continuous through the grip? Was the horn central strip spliced too?

Stephen,
I would be interested in finding out more on the structure of these bows, I find the design intriguing. Does the structure in the centre match the small cross-section diagram I found and posted details of some while ago?

Is your broken bow one of the Yanghai finds? (The site is mentioned and some finds shown in Urspr?nge der Seidenstra?e, but no bow illustrations or details).

Andrew

Adam,
That bow is stunning, could you give us a few details about it please?

Orda:

The bow is made according to the drawings and dimensions by Stephen - many pieces plus vertical horn strips in the limbs. I hope to finish it soon, but may not be successful in estimating the draw weight, since there are certain issues with limb tracking. Anyway, I now have a good idea how the bows were made.

The primordial shape of these bows is indeed fascinating.

Adam

Bede wrote:

Stephen,
I still haven't figured out what you meant by what you drew for the grip section. Was the side-by-side three part core continuous through the grip? Was the horn central strip spliced too?

It's really difficult to answer. We are most of us used to the idea of a hornbow with a wood or bamboo core, horn belly and sinew back. This Subeixi bow is radically different. It has a horn core with wood to the left and right. The horn does not extend to the 'siyahs' (I use the word; but I really mean 'non-working tips.') All the reconstructions I have seen except Adam's just assumed the standard structure core-belly-back, and were therefore way off beam.

Also, although I went over dozens of these bows, in all cases the grips were the best-preserved parts, meaning that the internal structure is not visible. The grip has a stout sinew binding with an optional birchbark layer. Sometimes there is a wood face on the back.

My estimation is that the horn core continues through the grip; but it is not necessarily a single strip of horn. Throughout the bow, the horn and wood form a symmetrical mosaic which follows a general design, but varies slightly from bow to bow.

Another point - I talk of a 'grip'; but I'm not certain where the bow was gripped at all. The whole centre section looks too uncomfortable to hold at full draw, assuming that these bow were quite heavy.

S

Stephen; What would be a dimension mid limb and what would be its shape? -j-

Stephen,
If the Classical pictures of the Western form of this bow are correct, the centre of the setback is not the grip which is a very strange concept. As a modern archer, my unconscious prejudice is to "read' this a something like a Korea bow in use, but it certainly isn't. Because of the asymmetric design of the limbs, I wonder if it was held on the forward leaning section of the limb above the setback?

Adam might have an idea on this: to me the structure looks as if it was originally a side by side three section core with a sinew back and binding that was reinforced at some time by adding belly strips of horn. The nature of one of the bows suggests that adding reinforcing strips of wood or horn was a common idea.

I felt when I first saw the drawings that the centre section was stiffer than one would expect if it was meant to work very much. On the other hand the tips were very shallow in section.

Indeed, it could be held non centrally, perhaps like a Yumi, or the reverse. Though why would there be an extra curve?
Perhaps though the bow could be asymmetric due to a technique?

If you watch Murat ?zveri shooting on one of the youtube videos you see he places the heel of his hand on the grip, and thus pushes the lower limb out further. I myself push the top limb out further by twisting forwards with my three lower fingers. This has the effect of bending the bow more in each case.

Maybe the archers using this bow excessively twisted the grip forwards (or backwards), thus leveling the asymmetry. Is there any artwork that accompanies this bow design showing its use?

I look forward to seeing it finished.

Regards

I have a subeshi hornbow made by lukas Novotny with the Selby's measurements :

I use it for horseback archery:you can see pics on my blog

http://jakpradere.blogspot.com/

with 65# at 28" but I use more often around 25" so 50#

I put one arrow on the string and 5 arrows with the bow in my bowhand

Its looked fantastic . Like all works from Lukas Novotny ! What about shooting vith Suibex hornbow. Its confortable ?

like other hornbow it have a sigmoid curve

from 13"(16#) to 16" it increase by 3#/inch

from 17 to 25" it increase by 2#/inch

at 25(50#) and 26it increase by 4

at 27 and 28 (65#)by 6 and 7 but it dont stak

so at 25" it is very smooth to draw ,branch become parallel and the elasticity is amazing

I shoot it with thumbring release and 25 grammes(375 gr?) arrows weight

Thank you Jak. I am interestng most about handle. What is the promarly theme in this page .Constructio of this biow is comlicated ,lake told about this mr.selby or clasic sinew + wood + horn ?

oh sorry :what is your problem with the handle?

the way to hold the bow?

Its the same problem , like in korean hornbows. The handle is too crooked. Turkish stale handle looks more cobfortable.

may be turkish handle "look" more confortable but it is not

if your fist make an angle with your arm every bow will be unconfortable

but if fist and arm are straight(on the same line) every bow become

confortable so the subeishi is very confortable much more than turkish

bow because you need only one finger to hold the subeishi

Ok maybe you litle exaggerate , but you love your bow and i respect this.And what about construction ?

I exagerate!!!!!!!!!!!!

I shoot every day with the subeishi

you never shoot with it and you give your opinion!!!!!you're funny

bye bye

Hey Jake i dont get mi opinion vith this bow! I only asked in your opinion ! Because this interestid me and another people in this site too.and if you can read in 1 page people talked about this thema.You mabe dont understand me. Crazy...