Traditional arrow spine testing
Are there any known traditional Asian methods for testing arrow spine? I'm asking this because most of my arrows, though made of bamboo, are built for modern target archery and it seems that they're not stiff enough to be shot out of traditional bows even with a shortened draw. Now I'm thinking of making my own arrows from some wooden dowels that just happens to be conveniently lying around and of course I need to be able to test the spine of the half-finished arrows since otherwise I'd just have more arrows hitting and bouncing off the handle in a manner that I'm sure they were not designed to do. Sure, I can use modern methods (and will if there's no traditional alternative), but it'd be more fun if I can find a traditional solution.
Thanks beforehand for any answers.
Thanks beforehand for any answers.
Most traditional systems seemed to depend on weight and diameter. This implies uniformity of manufacture and relatively consistent wood or bamboo supplies.
Typically in the Middle East, it is an arrow's weight that determines whether it is suitable for use with a particular bow. With two arrows of identical proportions and the same weight arrowheads, you would assume the heavier one would be made of denser and hence stiffer wood.
This is not much use unless you have been doing it for years though.
Typically in the Middle East, it is an arrow's weight that determines whether it is suitable for use with a particular bow. With two arrows of identical proportions and the same weight arrowheads, you would assume the heavier one would be made of denser and hence stiffer wood.
This is not much use unless you have been doing it for years though.
That's odd, I found bamboo of similar diameter and length as my wooden arrows to be plenty stiff enough.
What diameter and weight are the bamboo shafts, minus the piles? You can always replace the piles with lighter ones, this will have the effect of stiffening the spine.
What diameter and weight are the bamboo shafts, minus the piles? You can always replace the piles with lighter ones, this will have the effect of stiffening the spine.
In Chinese archery, I never found evidence that spine was considered as a separate factor. The only technical issue raised in the literature was to ensure that differences in the stiffness of the shaft should only affect the vertical plane and not the horizontal plane.
The factor referred to in the literature is always 'weight'. This lack of attention to spine may be linked to the frequent practice of using a range of different arrowheads. There would be little point in being fastidious about spine if other aspects of the arrows in a group varied.
A related reason may be that when forged iron arrowheads were in use it may not have been possible to have a consistent weight in the head.
The factor referred to in the literature is always 'weight'. This lack of attention to spine may be linked to the frequent practice of using a range of different arrowheads. There would be little point in being fastidious about spine if other aspects of the arrows in a group varied.
A related reason may be that when forged iron arrowheads were in use it may not have been possible to have a consistent weight in the head.
Tanged arrowheads lend themselves to weight matching by adjusting the length of the tang.
Differential weathering of iron arrowheads in the ground might make us think they were less uniform than they were in use. There were different shapes of arrowhead in use as Stephen wrote and they had different masses, but I think that we should bear in mind the archers used them for different purposes. They probably compensated based on practising with the different types.
However, not everyone was an expert shot and the requirements of mass shooting in battle are different from precision target shooting. Matching by weight from consistent materials should be enough to make a good set of target arrows. Spine matching to the bow is not as important with a thumb release.
Differential weathering of iron arrowheads in the ground might make us think they were less uniform than they were in use. There were different shapes of arrowhead in use as Stephen wrote and they had different masses, but I think that we should bear in mind the archers used them for different purposes. They probably compensated based on practising with the different types.
However, not everyone was an expert shot and the requirements of mass shooting in battle are different from precision target shooting. Matching by weight from consistent materials should be enough to make a good set of target arrows. Spine matching to the bow is not as important with a thumb release.
All right. Heavier arrows would be the order of the day, then. Just as well, since the dowels I have are made of pretty dense wood.
To be more specific, I haven't weighed the target arrows but I know that they kept smacking the grip of the bow when they were released, and so they get deflected far off to the right. My release isn't that horrible so my first suspicion is not enough spine but I'm still open for other suggestions on the possible causes of the problem.
To be more specific, I haven't weighed the target arrows but I know that they kept smacking the grip of the bow when they were released, and so they get deflected far off to the right. My release isn't that horrible so my first suspicion is not enough spine but I'm still open for other suggestions on the possible causes of the problem.
Have you tried lighter piles? This would stiffen your arrow shafts but would make the arrows lighter. Within reason, a lighter arrow should be better for target, depending on range. Weight affects cast, which will also affect aim.
As an example, my wife and daughter use light poundage bows and found their aim at long distance was so far off the target it became guess work. I changed their arrows from 5/16" to 1/4" with great results. Though the quarters are weaker, lighter piles compensate so in effect the spine is the same but the cast is much better.
Plus it's quicker and easier to change a few piles than make a new set of arrows.
As an example, my wife and daughter use light poundage bows and found their aim at long distance was so far off the target it became guess work. I changed their arrows from 5/16" to 1/4" with great results. Though the quarters are weaker, lighter piles compensate so in effect the spine is the same but the cast is much better.
Plus it's quicker and easier to change a few piles than make a new set of arrows.
The ides of using lighter heads is very traditional. Turkish puta arrows have heads that are tiny by comparison to any Western target piles.
You could test this easily by shooting some arrows before you put the arrowheads on them.
You could test this easily by shooting some arrows before you put the arrowheads on them.
There is something strange in this story.
Asian people put arrow on right side of bow. That must have some effect on spine.
Asian people put arrow on right side of bow. That must have some effect on spine.
It is not the side of the bow that affects the spine, it is the method of release. One thumb puts less sideways pressure on the string than three fingers.
However, it should be remembered that Western archers used spine to tune where the arrow landed in relation to the edge of the bow and how much it dragged on the bow when it went past the side of the bow. A perfectly spined arrow should not touch the bow on release.
However, it should be remembered that Western archers used spine to tune where the arrow landed in relation to the edge of the bow and how much it dragged on the bow when it went past the side of the bow. A perfectly spined arrow should not touch the bow on release.
So from what I understand there are no records of so called static spine for puta or war arrows?
I would be interesting to spine test few of such arrows just to see how stiff they really are in relation to target and warbows
I would be interesting to spine test few of such arrows just to see how stiff they really are in relation to target and warbows
The puta arrow I have is meant for use in a siper. Since there is no sideways pressure because the arrow sits in a trough, I believe that the arrow only needs to be stiff enough not to buckle under acceleration.
Indo-Persian war arrows in my possession are very stiff, spined between 70 and 90 pounds. Despite this the reed shafts are only about 7 to 9 mm in diameter. I have only seen a few Turkish war arrows and they seemed more solid than puta arrows. The one I examined closely was very well built, but slender. It was as barrelled as a puta arrow too.
Indo-Persian war arrows in my possession are very stiff, spined between 70 and 90 pounds. Despite this the reed shafts are only about 7 to 9 mm in diameter. I have only seen a few Turkish war arrows and they seemed more solid than puta arrows. The one I examined closely was very well built, but slender. It was as barrelled as a puta arrow too.