Hello, all! I've been lurking around the forums on and off for a while, but I've got a project that's coming closer to fruition and I figured the best way to get some knowledge would be to participate!
To shorten a longer story, I've been intent on making a Chinese crossbow for some time. I've tried doing some research on my own, but it's difficult finding English-language sources. Heck, 2 years ago, I didn't even know the Chinese HAD crossbows! Mr. Selby, I got a copy of your book and it's been very helpful! I've been able to get a pretty decent grasp of crossbows, but with one hitch: Most of the information is on Han period equipment, and I was aiming for something more Tang/Song period.
So I've inevitably come across descriptions of the shenbi nu, which was apparently so popular with the Song, but haven't heard/seen any artifacts or images. I read someone describing (from an unknown source) that the shenbi nu was 140cm long and had a bow span of 98cm. Wow! That's huge for a hand-carried crossbow! Impractically huge, in my opinion. I can't help but think that the translator was using modern unit conversions; if you used Qin measurement conversions, that makes the crossbow 97cm long with a 68cm span. Still pretty big, but much more reasonable. But I'm still left with a speculative size based on a translation from an unknown source.
I guess what I'm asking is: Does anyone out there have some better/more specific information about Tang/Song period crossbows? My end goal is to reproduce a crossbow that is as accurate as my skills and budget allow, while still being fun and safe to use on a regular basis. I'm not intending to make a 100% authentic museum-quality reproduction, although I'd love to have the information to do so (even if I don't make use of it).
Joel
Bede
Payne-Gallwey's book, The Crossbow, has a good set of drawings and a description of a Qing crossbow. This would be a good place to start. I wrote an article on a Warring States repeating crossbow, but that is too early for you.
Big bows and long draws were more common in Chinese crossbows than in the west. In the Han, 64 cm arrows for cross bows were common.
ironwing
From what I've seen so far, I know the relative proportions of eastern crossbows are very different from western ones. Actually, that's a good part of the reason I want to be toting one around, to show off to all my western crossbow toting friends! I was particularly interested in reading the part in Mr. Selby's book that Han crossbow prods were handbows mounted to the end of a stock.
That being said...a crossbow with a stock 140cm long? I'm a good 6' tall with disproportionately long arms and I have trouble imagining a crossbow nearly 5' long that isn't incredibly unwieldy, tiresome and difficult to use by one person on foot (let alone an entire army of people with likely shorter arms than I've got).
But I don't know; maybe I'm completely wrong.
Joel
Bede
I don't think you're wrong. 1.4 metres is too long except for one of those central Italian crossbows. I am not sure that hand bows were ever mounted as crossbow prods except in emergencies. Han mounting strategies were not too far from Central European ones for composite bowed crossbows. However, the model crossbow in Qin Shihuang's tomb had a bow of hand bow proportions. When you see the inspection strips from the Han Great Wall, you realise some of these bows were very strong.
The Han crossbow is a better weapon than the later ones if you believe the literature.
Stephen Selby
Gallwey-Payne's most detailed descriptions are of the Qing repeating crossbow. They're published on ATARN. Is that what you wanted?
I have old Ming drawings on crossbow construction, and it should be possible to convert Ming measurements accurately. The Ming bows were made with bamboo leaf-spring prods and has a release mechanism made of deer antler (roundly criticized by Mao Yuanyi as prone to failure).
I read someone describing (from an unknown source) that the shenbi nu was 140cm long and had a bow span of 98cm. Wow! That's huge for a hand-carried crossbow! Impractically huge, in my opinion.
Those measurements work for me. Remember that the shenbi nu had a self-wood prod with very little recurve. The Yunnan minorities who still make self crossbow prods insist that the latch must be half way along the stock for good accuracy. (I'm not sure why that should be.) If they followed that principle in the Ming Dynasty, the structure would have been quite massive. Shenbi nuwere used for siege deference rather than being carried into the field. Smaller crossbows with bamboo leaf-spring prods were used in the field.
S
ironwing
No, I'm definitely looking for a "standard" crossbow, not the "repeating" kind. It's kind of funny; sometimes it seems like it's easier to find source material for the zhuge nu than for more typical kinds of chinese crossbow! :)
Sounds like the shenbi nu isn't what I'm looking for after all! Although, maybe later once I've gotten experience on the smaller versions...
Ming is rather later than I was aiming for... Unless the Ming designs could be reasonably projected onto Song & earlier designs, but I was under the impression that typical crossbow designs (especially in respect to the trigger) underwent a substantial change between the Song and Yuan periods.
Were bamboo leaf springs typical in Song & earlier period, too?
Thanks for all your responses, they've been very helpful!
Joel
Jos?Dom
Almost at the end of the video you can see a Korean crossbow at work:
