first flightarrows
Heavily inspired by Bede Dwyer, Alan Case and others I?ve finsished my first flightarrows with handtools. I?m not at all in making such a highly sensitive matter with machines or a lot of jigs.
I?ve just begun a well- illustrated making of on http://redhawk55.wordpress.com.
Main issue was to make a stable and light arrow. Any comments are welcome.
On the upper 2 pics you see the details.
On the pic at the bottom you see from the top:
hollowed and barreled shaft, cedar, bone- tip, spindlewood- nock, silk- bindings; 125grs.
laminated shaft(cedar, bamboo), bone- tip, horn- nock, silk- binding; 186grs.
5/16 cedar- shaft, tapered towards the tip, tip heat- treated as well as the selfnock, sinew- bindings, 232grs.
I was really surprised how much hollowing plus barreling are able to reduce a shaft?s weight. Its original weight was 330grs, so the weight could be reduced at 205grs. Anyway hollowing and reglueing are keeping the shaft stable at an about 55lbs- spine.
Michael
I?ve just begun a well- illustrated making of on http://redhawk55.wordpress.com.
Main issue was to make a stable and light arrow. Any comments are welcome.
On the upper 2 pics you see the details.
On the pic at the bottom you see from the top:
hollowed and barreled shaft, cedar, bone- tip, spindlewood- nock, silk- bindings; 125grs.
laminated shaft(cedar, bamboo), bone- tip, horn- nock, silk- binding; 186grs.
5/16 cedar- shaft, tapered towards the tip, tip heat- treated as well as the selfnock, sinew- bindings, 232grs.
I was really surprised how much hollowing plus barreling are able to reduce a shaft?s weight. Its original weight was 330grs, so the weight could be reduced at 205grs. Anyway hollowing and reglueing are keeping the shaft stable at an about 55lbs- spine.
Michael
Are you sure that "any comments are welcom " ? :lol:
Vol. 2 of my flightarrow- build- along is ready, go for http://redhawk55.wordpress.com
Dusan, business as usual, the real flightarrow- experts on the PALEOPLANET highly appreciate these arrows. For sure you don?t know what I mean.
Michael
Dusan, business as usual, the real flightarrow- experts on the PALEOPLANET highly appreciate these arrows. For sure you don?t know what I mean.
Michael
:roll: Ugh, i am litlle tired comment all news , and still negativ criticizm... All people here was so honey - only i am that bad guy.Maybe sombody new can say his real think too. I will try be pozitiv . Nice bone , Michael. Good arrows to your show-case. :lol:
What I'm about to say has nothing to do with recent discussion regarding Dusan's work :wink:
Shafts look good, but I'm sure you could do much better in fletch/nock area: those wrapping will couse alot of drag.
We've seen your bows, I see no reason for arrows falling short.
Shafts look good, but I'm sure you could do much better in fletch/nock area: those wrapping will couse alot of drag.
We've seen your bows, I see no reason for arrows falling short.
Daniel, you?re right about the fletching. I?ll rearrange it, making experiences.
Even experienced archers are of the opinion that a flightarrow is barreled and equipped with somehow small feathers and tiny tips. Some are thinking that a flightarrow is above all a great painting job.
But as always the intrinsic values are making the deal.
The shaft of a flightarrow has to be light and anyway stable. For get these capablities high quality fligtharrow- shafts have to be made as laminations, in the best case they are hollow.
My first making-of laminated shafts is out on http://redhawk55.wordpress.com
Michael
Even experienced archers are of the opinion that a flightarrow is barreled and equipped with somehow small feathers and tiny tips. Some are thinking that a flightarrow is above all a great painting job.
But as always the intrinsic values are making the deal.
The shaft of a flightarrow has to be light and anyway stable. For get these capablities high quality fligtharrow- shafts have to be made as laminations, in the best case they are hollow.
My first making-of laminated shafts is out on http://redhawk55.wordpress.com
Michael
Michael,
I think there might be some confusion here. Laminated flight arrows were radially laminated. I looked at your blog site and it seemed that you were gluing them together one on top of the other. This is similar to the modern laminated shafts used by contemporary hunters in America.
Lamination as a construction method has one drawback and that is the weight is higher than the same cross section of the single material. In order to have the increased strength of the laminate benefit your arrow, you must insure that the arrow is no heavier than the equivalent self arrow.
Arrows do not just bend in one plane like a bow. The buckling that occurs at the release of the bow string is sometimes complicated by another caused by the arrow support under the arrow. The centre of the string moves in a shallow arc because the limbs are never in perfect balance at the release. This causes a force at 90 degrees to the bend of the archer's paradox. This is usually smaller than the horizontal flexure, but it can be significant.
The radially laminated shafts are stable and of the same stiffness in all directions. Because they are hollow and of smaller diameter than the equivalent wooden arrow they have better drag characteristics. The hollowness and small diameter also contribute to lowering their weight. Barrelling of itself is an attempt to reduce mass by retaining thickness in that part of the arrow that could bend most, the centre section. If it has an aerodynamic effect, it is accidental. Balancing the arrow correctly had an effect on the shape of the barrelling too, which possibly explains why the Turks were so careful about the shapes they assigned to arrows.
I think there might be some confusion here. Laminated flight arrows were radially laminated. I looked at your blog site and it seemed that you were gluing them together one on top of the other. This is similar to the modern laminated shafts used by contemporary hunters in America.
Lamination as a construction method has one drawback and that is the weight is higher than the same cross section of the single material. In order to have the increased strength of the laminate benefit your arrow, you must insure that the arrow is no heavier than the equivalent self arrow.
Arrows do not just bend in one plane like a bow. The buckling that occurs at the release of the bow string is sometimes complicated by another caused by the arrow support under the arrow. The centre of the string moves in a shallow arc because the limbs are never in perfect balance at the release. This causes a force at 90 degrees to the bend of the archer's paradox. This is usually smaller than the horizontal flexure, but it can be significant.
The radially laminated shafts are stable and of the same stiffness in all directions. Because they are hollow and of smaller diameter than the equivalent wooden arrow they have better drag characteristics. The hollowness and small diameter also contribute to lowering their weight. Barrelling of itself is an attempt to reduce mass by retaining thickness in that part of the arrow that could bend most, the centre section. If it has an aerodynamic effect, it is accidental. Balancing the arrow correctly had an effect on the shape of the barrelling too, which possibly explains why the Turks were so careful about the shapes they assigned to arrows.
Bede, thanx again for your comments.
I?m aware of your explanations, you?re really able to to put a very complex process into words.
My laminated shafts will be hollowed, for to keep their physical weight low.
I?ve done one hollow and barreled shaft, I?ve done some shots with it, that?s fascinating. The original shaft was 330grs. in weight, spine about 55lbs, laminating, barreling and hollowing made a 125grs. shaft of it, spine remains almost the same.
I?m still checking out how could the Turkish flightarchers shot so far. Adam Karpovicz and others have prooved the making- of the 100lbs hornbows plus we need for get it, but less have had a closer look to the arrows necessary for to shot so far.
Michael
I?m aware of your explanations, you?re really able to to put a very complex process into words.
My laminated shafts will be hollowed, for to keep their physical weight low.
I?ve done one hollow and barreled shaft, I?ve done some shots with it, that?s fascinating. The original shaft was 330grs. in weight, spine about 55lbs, laminating, barreling and hollowing made a 125grs. shaft of it, spine remains almost the same.
I?m still checking out how could the Turkish flightarchers shot so far. Adam Karpovicz and others have prooved the making- of the 100lbs hornbows plus we need for get it, but less have had a closer look to the arrows necessary for to shot so far.
Michael
Michael,
How long was the 125 grain shaft?
How long was the 125 grain shaft?
Bede, the arrow is done for my very short osage- bow, 45lbs at 23", the arrow is bone- tip incl. 23 1/4" in length. The bow and the arrow are inspired by Steve Gardners thoughts about very short bows shot with very light arrows.
This radially lamination- thing makes me somewhat crazy. Is it done like these russian puppets? Or like a telescope? You just take cane- tubes of different diameter and stick one into another, building up the barreled shape?
If this is the thing, thats one of the greatest inventions ever. It makes sense in every respect.
Has anybody reconstructed an arrow made like this? I guess I?ve to go out collecting cane!
Michael
This radially lamination- thing makes me somewhat crazy. Is it done like these russian puppets? Or like a telescope? You just take cane- tubes of different diameter and stick one into another, building up the barreled shape?
If this is the thing, thats one of the greatest inventions ever. It makes sense in every respect.
Has anybody reconstructed an arrow made like this? I guess I?ve to go out collecting cane!
Michael
Alan Case's arrows were made by taking a flat piece of bamboo and cutting strips lengthwise. Then the inner side of the strip was cut so that the piece had a triangular cross section. The cross section was tapered on the inner sides at each end. The strips were arranged around a central piece of string or wire and glued together. Previously some materiel was taken off the inner edge of each strip to make the hollow when the arrow was assembled.
After the glue dried, the wire was removed to leave a hollow. If a string was used, it could easily be drilled out because it was so much softer than the bamboo. The point and the nock were then added.
Old Turkish arrows made this way that have glue failure after a few hundred years show the structure.
After the glue dried, the wire was removed to leave a hollow. If a string was used, it could easily be drilled out because it was so much softer than the bamboo. The point and the nock were then added.
Old Turkish arrows made this way that have glue failure after a few hundred years show the structure.
Bede, o.k., so I didn?t realize too much what Alan has posted on his thread.
Anyway I cut some cane and had to discover that just nearby my home a lot of cane is growing. So I?ve done some experience in working cane for to become confident with the material.
Michael
Anyway I cut some cane and had to discover that just nearby my home a lot of cane is growing. So I?ve done some experience in working cane for to become confident with the material.
Michael
To get a good idea about how to do it, check out bamboo flyrod building.
The principle will be the same. One of the norwegian bowyers, made a arrow like this. He says it became slender but heavy, and very timeconsuming!
The principle will be the same. One of the norwegian bowyers, made a arrow like this. He says it became slender but heavy, and very timeconsuming!
I was try it. Arrow is constancy, but verry softly for me (coarsest diameter 9mm - bow 62lbs - 32"). I make it exactly like fly rod, maybe this was fault and with circle diameter will working better. Or make bigger diameter... in each case this is very toilsome ineffective concept of arrowmaking I think... is many easily concepts which working same or better...Bonsaikeeper wrote:
To get a good idea about how to do it, check out bamboo flyrod building.
The principle will be the same. One of the norwegian bowyers, made a arrow like this. He says it became slender but heavy, and very timeconsuming!
Peter
The real skill is in making the weight balance the strength.
Hexshafs are made that way, except that they are not hollow
http://www.hexshaftarrows.com/about_hexshafts.html
http://www.hexshaftarrows.com/about_hexshafts.html
maybe help to someone .
a conic hole in a thick steel plate :
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a shaft :
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hammering the shaft through the hole :
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exit wound :
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results :
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the wood is austrian pine . 10 mm thick .
don't ask . I don't know .
a conic hole in a thick steel plate :
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![[external image]](http://serbaniulian.sitesled.com/arc/shafts/pressedshaft1.JPG){kind=link}
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![[external image]](http://serbaniulian.sitesled.com/arc/shafts/pressedshaft2.JPG){kind=link}
a shaft :
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![[external image]](http://serbaniulian.sitesled.com/arc/shafts/pressedshaft3.JPG){kind=link}
hammering the shaft through the hole :
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![[external image]](http://serbaniulian.sitesled.com/arc/shafts/pressedshaft4.JPG){kind=link}
exit wound :
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![[external image]](http://serbaniulian.sitesled.com/arc/shafts/pressedshaft5.JPG){kind=link}
results :
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![[external image]](http://serbaniulian.sitesled.com/arc/shafts/pressedshaft6.JPG){kind=link}
[external image]
![[external image]](http://serbaniulian.sitesled.com/arc/shafts/pressedshaft7.JPG){kind=link}
the wood is austrian pine . 10 mm thick .
don't ask . I don't know .
The hex shaft assembly is the same, but using bamboo you are taking advantage of the natural tubular structure of bamboo and reassembling it smaller.
There is really no advantage in making a 9 mm complex shaft. A bamboo shaft of the same diameter would have the same or greater strength. Assembling the arrows from strips is to make them smaller in diameter with the same stiffness and less weight. The result is less drag, less weight and less cross sectional area.
There is really no advantage in making a 9 mm complex shaft. A bamboo shaft of the same diameter would have the same or greater strength. Assembling the arrows from strips is to make them smaller in diameter with the same stiffness and less weight. The result is less drag, less weight and less cross sectional area.
Vol.4 of my flightarrow- build along is out now on http://redhawk55.wordpress.com focused on making radially laminated shafts with 4 strips of wood, presenting my hollowing tool.
Anyway the better way to do it is as it is described by Bede Dwyer and Alan Case.
I think these hexshafts are useless for flightshooting. Their construction- principle is well thought for making a stable, heavy shaft for strong penetration and straight arrowflight with a heavy bow.
Michael
Anyway the better way to do it is as it is described by Bede Dwyer and Alan Case.
I think these hexshafts are useless for flightshooting. Their construction- principle is well thought for making a stable, heavy shaft for strong penetration and straight arrowflight with a heavy bow.
Michael
Making of flightarrows
Vol.5 is out on http://redhawk55.wordpress.com
Focused on making hollow and barreled hex- shafts with a simple jig. Arrows made like this are in the 125grs.- 200grs. range, stable, about 50-60lbs spine. Ready for a far flight.
Michael
Vol.5 is out on http://redhawk55.wordpress.com
Focused on making hollow and barreled hex- shafts with a simple jig. Arrows made like this are in the 125grs.- 200grs. range, stable, about 50-60lbs spine. Ready for a far flight.
Michael
My first radially laminated flight arrows are ready for to fly.
I picked up my short osage- selfbow, 43lbs at 23", the bow is 44" in length.
Usually it shots a 330grs.- arrow about 145yards, the flightarrows fly for about 200yards. One arrow is made of cedar- hexstrips and weighs 125grs., the other one is made of pine and weighs 145grs. They fly very stable, spine for both arrows is about 50/55.
That?s great to see these arrows flying so much further.
More info: http://redhawk55.wordpress.com
Michael
I picked up my short osage- selfbow, 43lbs at 23", the bow is 44" in length.
Usually it shots a 330grs.- arrow about 145yards, the flightarrows fly for about 200yards. One arrow is made of cedar- hexstrips and weighs 125grs., the other one is made of pine and weighs 145grs. They fly very stable, spine for both arrows is about 50/55.
That?s great to see these arrows flying so much further.
More info: http://redhawk55.wordpress.com
Michael