Kirghiz Bows
Pyotr Gonet (from Poland) has been travelling in Kirghistan, and has run to earth the only remaining traditional bow-maker there. He has some great photos on his blog (text in Polish):
http://www.golonte.ownlog.com/
He writes that the bows are not of good shooting quality; but I must say that comparing with some ancient images and archaeological remains that I have seen, a lot is 'right' about these bows. For example, I have seen the hemp or sinew basket-weave on bows unearthed in Xinjiang. The asymmetric design and bone reinforcement at the tips also looks very traditional for that region.
Comments?
http://www.golonte.ownlog.com/
He writes that the bows are not of good shooting quality; but I must say that comparing with some ancient images and archaeological remains that I have seen, a lot is 'right' about these bows. For example, I have seen the hemp or sinew basket-weave on bows unearthed in Xinjiang. The asymmetric design and bone reinforcement at the tips also looks very traditional for that region.
Comments?
His photos of the journey are well worth looking at.
I find it odd how they are so different (on first appearance) to Persian / Tatar bows and Chinese bows as well.
There are several problems with the arrow construction as well. Perhaps they are traditional in constructional techniques but not based on surviving equipment.
Sure, the arrows are not authentic. I was looking more at the bow. I think that some of the Central Asian craftsman have the correct design idea but no access to the right materials. Many understand the design but can't grasp the manufacture and use of the glue.Bede wrote:
There are several problems with the arrow construction as well. Perhaps they are traditional in constructional techniques but not based on surviving equipment.
Stephen; What time period was represented by the plaited sinew?
It would be interesting to know if the Kyrgyz man was self taught or had a teacher. I found some fanciful horn bows being made for tourists in Kazakhstan.
It would be interesting to know if the Kyrgyz man was self taught or had a teacher. I found some fanciful horn bows being made for tourists in Kazakhstan.
Jack, do you have any photos of the Kazakh bows you saw?
Dary; I have pictures but they are fantasy bows and I do not wish to drag them out and show. The waste of perfectly good Ibex horns.
Imperial Mongol. There was sinew in the bow; but I couldn't tell whether the plaiting was with sinew or hemp or wood-derived thread.jack farrell wrote:
Stephen; What time period was represented by the plaited sinew?
Since i am Slav i hardly understand Polish but i understood that the name of bowyer is Almaz Ucma.He was 7y.o. when he started his tries to revitalize Kyrgyzian bow.But he doesn't have access to internet or any contact with other archers and bowyers, also he is scorned by some families as local eccentric(savage) (*i really know this feeling!) but he is fighting for survival of culture of his area. His bow is made of horn and reinforced by fibers of horse sinew.Pyotr estimated braid around bow as useless. Also Almaz doesn't have access to wood and his arrows, made of walnut, are very heavy and curve but reinforced by bone nocks so his arrows are flying just 120-150m and Pyotr estimated it as bad result.
Maybe some Polish friend could correct me.
I think that this man has basic information about bows of his country and area,maybe he saw the bows in the childhood but it is sad that he doesn't have more access to informations.I am sure that he didn't have a teacher to teach him making bows. I give him support to continue preservation of tradition and culture of his nation.
Maybe some Polish friend could correct me.
I think that this man has basic information about bows of his country and area,maybe he saw the bows in the childhood but it is sad that he doesn't have more access to informations.I am sure that he didn't have a teacher to teach him making bows. I give him support to continue preservation of tradition and culture of his nation.
Zoran, your translate was +- right.Like you say Almaz haevnt any teachers, nothing. I doubt if anyone in Kirgizia have in home old bow... Because its must be VERY old. I was in 1984 in Kirgizia(Turkmenia , Tadzikistan ...) No bows . Any memory about old bows...
Almaz maybe see some pistures or old paintings. Same situation was in all Central Asia to Mongolia (old Soviet Union states).200 years was prefered fire guns :lol: .
I found in Russian sites historical text where said that one bow vith 60-80 arrows in 17 cen. cost 50 rubels and one gun vith powder and bals 28 rubels. Bow was stil better in shooting efektivity but economicly ...
Almaz maybe see some pistures or old paintings. Same situation was in all Central Asia to Mongolia (old Soviet Union states).200 years was prefered fire guns :lol: .
I found in Russian sites historical text where said that one bow vith 60-80 arrows in 17 cen. cost 50 rubels and one gun vith powder and bals 28 rubels. Bow was stil better in shooting efektivity but economicly ...
Du?an,
i share your opinion. Glad you were in Kirgizia. But, Almaz's bows are ''tripple curved bows'' and even if it is a bit assymetrical it makes sense to me (i am very interested in ''tripple curved'' bows;-). If he didn't have any information he could make wooden bows. A pitty there's no more informations about his work.What i didn't understand is, does he uses sinew basket on the bow as reinforcement or it is just decoration. Does he applies layers of sinew onto the back...On siyahs, it looks to me that he used wooden handle of knife or pocket knife for siyahs, or he used nails to apply bone plates...hm, do i have a right to judge?????
Also, did anyone noticed kolczan (quiver), i like it.
Du?ane, lak?e mi je da razumem slovački nego poljski, ovo sam morao da čitam pedeset puta da bih razumeo :D
Pozdrav,
i share your opinion. Glad you were in Kirgizia. But, Almaz's bows are ''tripple curved bows'' and even if it is a bit assymetrical it makes sense to me (i am very interested in ''tripple curved'' bows;-). If he didn't have any information he could make wooden bows. A pitty there's no more informations about his work.What i didn't understand is, does he uses sinew basket on the bow as reinforcement or it is just decoration. Does he applies layers of sinew onto the back...On siyahs, it looks to me that he used wooden handle of knife or pocket knife for siyahs, or he used nails to apply bone plates...hm, do i have a right to judge?????
Also, did anyone noticed kolczan (quiver), i like it.
Du?ane, lak?e mi je da razumem slovački nego poljski, ovo sam morao da čitam pedeset puta da bih razumeo :D
Pozdrav,
Well, it is time for me to explain .
First of all we had a serious communication problem - as my russian is not the best, what I could understand is:
- he tries to make bows but never had a teacher
- he has been doing this for 7 years now
-he doesn't know anyone who makes or made bows in the past
- His knowledge is purely instinctive as he has seen bows only on some photos
As I showed him my bow (Bisok's longbow made in Poland) he was totally surprised as he has never seen anything like that. If it comes to shape- slight assymetry is not intended, I think it just came up like that randomly.
The reason of dissapearance of traditional archery festivals is that Soviets were forcing Kirgiz people to organize "traditional" events on their own cost.
The bows are to heavy, too slow, and as much as I admire and support Almaz in his attempts I need to be honest... We spoke a little bit and I hope he understand me that they should be a bit different - lighter at the end .
Anyway he is a remarkable person and despite no support from his family (apart from a huge need to sell bows for as much as possible - suggested price was 1000 dollars) he continues his struggle to fulfill his dream of reviving archery in Kirgistan. Personally he's an honest always smiling man really happy to see that he is not alone.
Piotr Gonet
First of all we had a serious communication problem - as my russian is not the best, what I could understand is:
- he tries to make bows but never had a teacher
- he has been doing this for 7 years now
-he doesn't know anyone who makes or made bows in the past
- His knowledge is purely instinctive as he has seen bows only on some photos
As I showed him my bow (Bisok's longbow made in Poland) he was totally surprised as he has never seen anything like that. If it comes to shape- slight assymetry is not intended, I think it just came up like that randomly.
The reason of dissapearance of traditional archery festivals is that Soviets were forcing Kirgiz people to organize "traditional" events on their own cost.
The bows are to heavy, too slow, and as much as I admire and support Almaz in his attempts I need to be honest... We spoke a little bit and I hope he understand me that they should be a bit different - lighter at the end .
Anyway he is a remarkable person and despite no support from his family (apart from a huge need to sell bows for as much as possible - suggested price was 1000 dollars) he continues his struggle to fulfill his dream of reviving archery in Kirgistan. Personally he's an honest always smiling man really happy to see that he is not alone.
Piotr Gonet
Maybe I can visit him and take him a bow as a gift that he can copy. But we need to have information on what the traditional bows of his ancestors were like.
new interesting "crazy" Horn-bows from Kirgizia. In Paleoplanet discusion
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/38360
Crazy waste of very expensive and hard tu buy Marco Polo sheep horns !Kirgiz masters somwhere heard about horn bows and he do it directly! Touristic toy boy bow from two big Marco Polo sheep horns !Like i post in another Atarn thread , one Marco Polo hunt coast about 3-5000 US dol. And here we can buy 2 big horns for only 300 dol. If sombody visit Kirgizia please buy for me 1 or 2 bows :lol:
http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/38360
Crazy waste of very expensive and hard tu buy Marco Polo sheep horns !Kirgiz masters somwhere heard about horn bows and he do it directly! Touristic toy boy bow from two big Marco Polo sheep horns !Like i post in another Atarn thread , one Marco Polo hunt coast about 3-5000 US dol. And here we can buy 2 big horns for only 300 dol. If sombody visit Kirgizia please buy for me 1 or 2 bows :lol:
Dusan; These bows are very similar to Kazakh fantasy bows I saw in Almaty. Of course they are not Marco Polo sheep but a type of Ibex. (Sheep have curly horns. These are arched.) These bowyers have absolutely no historic information on archery whatever.
Ibex is evan best choice :lol: I hope you buy some ! Looks good material for any old hornbow !
i find new picture from china qinghai in the link of stephen post, here is a food list you can eat:
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k165/ ... CF4822.jpg
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k165/ ... CF4822.jpg
i've only been to hong kong once, but i think i recognize the lippo tower?