Mongolian archery: Munkhtsetse, female mergen shooting style
Greetings all,
Recently I have been quietly reading up on traditional Asiatic archery, and have taken an interest in Mongol style archery.
I was visually comparing photos of Mongolian archers, in particular I was paying attention to several photos of Munkhtsetseg, the first Mongolian female Mergen, on how she draws her bow.
Among some of my observations (one on ATARN, at http://www.atarn.org/mongolian/hk_island.htm ), is she seems to do it different from the majority of Mongolian archers (photos/video clips I can find on the internet).
Given, that there are members on this forum who have personally met her. I thought this would be the best place to ask.
Her anchor point seems to be way away from her head and what appears to me like somewhere near the clavicle?
1. Where does Munkhtsetse places the nock of the arrow at on her body?
2. At what position of her body is her draw hand located at?
3. Is this her ?personal?flavor of shooting?
4. Is this a particular style of Mongol archery ( I read that among mongol archery there are different styles)
The other thing I can?t quite figure out is, how does Munkhtsetseg aim? Is she sighting from her right thumb or does she sight with the tip of her arrow (In both cases the arrow and thumb seems to me like it is canting upwards), or does she just look at the target?
Release
1. Does Munkhtsetse do a small twist of the bowhand on release ? (But not like how Japanese archers do the Tsunomi,- rotate the bow full circle) or does she keep her bowhand firmly in place without moving ? Most clips on youtube about mongol archers are too fast for me to catch.
There is a video clip on ATARN of her shooting but its so small, I can?t really observe well. It would be nice to be able to see a bigger clip of her shooting.
Mongolian style bows.
1. I read bits and pieces that the Mongolian style bow produces a lot of hand shock. Is this due to the string hitting the string bridges on release, or is it just the design of the bow?
Quite a bit for a first post, so I guess I will leave it as it is for now.
Thanks in advance.
Recently I have been quietly reading up on traditional Asiatic archery, and have taken an interest in Mongol style archery.
I was visually comparing photos of Mongolian archers, in particular I was paying attention to several photos of Munkhtsetseg, the first Mongolian female Mergen, on how she draws her bow.
Among some of my observations (one on ATARN, at http://www.atarn.org/mongolian/hk_island.htm ), is she seems to do it different from the majority of Mongolian archers (photos/video clips I can find on the internet).
Given, that there are members on this forum who have personally met her. I thought this would be the best place to ask.
Her anchor point seems to be way away from her head and what appears to me like somewhere near the clavicle?
1. Where does Munkhtsetse places the nock of the arrow at on her body?
2. At what position of her body is her draw hand located at?
3. Is this her ?personal?flavor of shooting?
4. Is this a particular style of Mongol archery ( I read that among mongol archery there are different styles)
The other thing I can?t quite figure out is, how does Munkhtsetseg aim? Is she sighting from her right thumb or does she sight with the tip of her arrow (In both cases the arrow and thumb seems to me like it is canting upwards), or does she just look at the target?
Release
1. Does Munkhtsetse do a small twist of the bowhand on release ? (But not like how Japanese archers do the Tsunomi,- rotate the bow full circle) or does she keep her bowhand firmly in place without moving ? Most clips on youtube about mongol archers are too fast for me to catch.
There is a video clip on ATARN of her shooting but its so small, I can?t really observe well. It would be nice to be able to see a bigger clip of her shooting.
Mongolian style bows.
1. I read bits and pieces that the Mongolian style bow produces a lot of hand shock. Is this due to the string hitting the string bridges on release, or is it just the design of the bow?
Quite a bit for a first post, so I guess I will leave it as it is for now.
Thanks in advance.
I have seen her shoot many times. She triangulates. Keep in mind that the Mongolians shoot at the same target all the time. The arrow has a stop taped to it which engages the grip when it is at full draw. Just anchor at your familiar place and raise the bow until the target is seen over the thumb, grip or whatever one is using.
This only works for this one contest. Another distance would require another formula.
Their bow is fine for their contest, with a very heavy arrow. It is not suited to general field archery with a light arrow.
This only works for this one contest. Another distance would require another formula.
Their bow is fine for their contest, with a very heavy arrow. It is not suited to general field archery with a light arrow.
Thanks for the reply. It helps clarify some thoughts I have (and raise more).
So.. she basically 'optimize' her shooting setup (the shooting distance, draw with tape to arrow, as you mentioned e.t.c ) to maximize scouring points in the contest, and her setup is not flexible for quick changing of distance?
If that is the case, are her technique not indicative of traditional mongolian field archery style, but rather a 'sport-ified' version of the art, centered around that particular contest?
What I was curious about is how targeting and 'arc' shooting on a precise target is done. The way the Mongolians do it, gave me the impression that was how it was 'done' during the old days. However, if what is seen in modern times in Nadaam is 'sport-ified', there's alot of mmmm going in my head. Is there a different style of Mongolian field archery?
Now that you mention it, are those bows used by archers in the Nadaam festival, designed specifically for just the contest and not 'appropriate' for field archery/target shooting?
So.. she basically 'optimize' her shooting setup (the shooting distance, draw with tape to arrow, as you mentioned e.t.c ) to maximize scouring points in the contest, and her setup is not flexible for quick changing of distance?
If that is the case, are her technique not indicative of traditional mongolian field archery style, but rather a 'sport-ified' version of the art, centered around that particular contest?
What I was curious about is how targeting and 'arc' shooting on a precise target is done. The way the Mongolians do it, gave me the impression that was how it was 'done' during the old days. However, if what is seen in modern times in Nadaam is 'sport-ified', there's alot of mmmm going in my head. Is there a different style of Mongolian field archery?
Now that you mention it, are those bows used by archers in the Nadaam festival, designed specifically for just the contest and not 'appropriate' for field archery/target shooting?
As you already mentioned, there is more than one style. Any other changes regarding aiming etc would be much the same as any other archery form over different courses/distances. For instance a longbow, on the whole, is used quite differently in field archery than it is for clout or target. Set distances tend to develop an optimum for aiming as things are repetative, whereas field courses (OK I'm biased) require a far broader and thorough relationship with the bow.
As for the bow design, that is far more Chinese than Mongol and not the bow of the Mongol Empire. There are examples of Yuan dynasty bows within ATARN.
As for the bow design, that is far more Chinese than Mongol and not the bow of the Mongol Empire. There are examples of Yuan dynasty bows within ATARN.
Orda; Well said. I would agree.
Interestingly the son of a buryat "mergen" told me about the draw-hand twist. (outwards as described by Taybugha)
On the topic of draw-hand twist, When you mention 'outward twist', how is this done, according to the mergen's son?
Its a bit difficult to describe, but I will try my best to convey it in words.
- Is the little finger on a horizontal plane (same as thumb holding string)and on release, the little finger position is rotated upwards, and the palm of the draw hand faces away from the face?
- How far should the little finger be from horizontal on release?
a) Just slightly above the thumb?
b) Almost vertical with the thumb (i.e index finger upwards and thumb downwards (I guess I'm exaggerating the action here)?
3. Technique wise, is there advantage/disadvantage when you 'flare'/splay' all you fingers from a thumb draw, or should you just release your index and thumb finger , while keeping the middle. ring, little finger clenched?
Its a bit difficult to describe, but I will try my best to convey it in words.
- Is the little finger on a horizontal plane (same as thumb holding string)and on release, the little finger position is rotated upwards, and the palm of the draw hand faces away from the face?
- How far should the little finger be from horizontal on release?
a) Just slightly above the thumb?
b) Almost vertical with the thumb (i.e index finger upwards and thumb downwards (I guess I'm exaggerating the action here)?
3. Technique wise, is there advantage/disadvantage when you 'flare'/splay' all you fingers from a thumb draw, or should you just release your index and thumb finger , while keeping the middle. ring, little finger clenched?
The direction is as you described.
By his demonstration the palm plane is horizontal at and vertical after release (as you write).
He opened all fingers at once. - However for a strong bow I d keep the last 3 fingers clenched (Taybughas method).
;-)
PS: keep your eyes open
By his demonstration the palm plane is horizontal at and vertical after release (as you write).
He opened all fingers at once. - However for a strong bow I d keep the last 3 fingers clenched (Taybughas method).
;-)
PS: keep your eyes open