olympic and gao ying's technique (and archers w/o necks)
I was rereading the archery excerpts by Gao Ying (late Ming dynasty, 1637 AD). I'm somewhat amused by how much his technique resembles FITA/Olympic recurve technique. The specific points that jumped out at me were the emphasis on using lots of back tension as well as rotating the front shoulder down and forward.
ps: It seems Ming dynasty archers had no necks. From some Ming illustrations, it's impossible for me to tell whether they're holding the arrow at shoulder level or mouth level (but if you have no neck, shoulder/mouth level is the same thing). :x
ps: It seems Ming dynasty archers had no necks. From some Ming illustrations, it's impossible for me to tell whether they're holding the arrow at shoulder level or mouth level (but if you have no neck, shoulder/mouth level is the same thing). :x
Hunching the head down into the shoulders is often represented in art from the East and the West when archers are depicted. The control of the position of the shoulders might disappear when one is under pressure hunting or being shot at.
Undoubtedly, the correct position of the shoulders advised my many ancient authors is the best position for strength and accuracy, but the pressure of events is sometimes added to the pressure from the bow.
We short-necked people have the best of both worlds since we don't have to adjust our aim much when changing styles.
Undoubtedly, the correct position of the shoulders advised my many ancient authors is the best position for strength and accuracy, but the pressure of events is sometimes added to the pressure from the bow.
We short-necked people have the best of both worlds since we don't have to adjust our aim much when changing styles.
Last week I gave a traditional Chinese archery 'clinic' at a place where a FITA instructor was present.
There are some (especially Chinese?) archers who, when they extend the bow arm, lock the elbow at an angle in excess of 180 degrees. (I find this common in Chinese women. I can't do it myself.)
I criticized that as likely to cause excess stress leading to long term elbow injury. The FITA instructor thought it was a wonderful technique that everyone should aim for.
Thoughts? :roll:
There are some (especially Chinese?) archers who, when they extend the bow arm, lock the elbow at an angle in excess of 180 degrees. (I find this common in Chinese women. I can't do it myself.)
I criticized that as likely to cause excess stress leading to long term elbow injury. The FITA instructor thought it was a wonderful technique that everyone should aim for.
Thoughts? :roll:
Aye, sounds like a case of double-jointedness for those people. For beginners, another major problem with locking the elbow beyond 180 degrees is they risk of slapping their forearm with the string.
According to the FITA archers I know, double-jointed people should keep their elbow at 180 degrees and avoid locking their elbow.
According to the FITA archers I know, double-jointed people should keep their elbow at 180 degrees and avoid locking their elbow.
I've noticed this phenomenon as well and I understand your views regarding injury. With bones and joints aligned, pressure can be absorbed well but in situations like this ( and gymnasts performing on the rings etc) it just makes my arthritic joints scream. There again, to the person involved it probably feels natural.
I've been rethinking the interpretation of the "front shoulder rotates downward" part of Gao Ying's work. For the case of a right-handed archer, this would either mean (1) rotating the bow shoulder clockwise or (2) pressing the bow shoulder down, but not necessarily rotating it. I've been trying to practice technique (1), but it feels somewhat uncomfortable. I consciously rotate my upper-arm/tricep/elbow clockwise, but the danger is that my left deltoid and forearm become tense.Justin Ma wrote:
The specific points that jumped out at me were the emphasis on using lots of back tension as well as rotating the front shoulder down and forward.
My hunch is that doing technique (2) is more sensible, and it would involve keeping the bow elbow pointing up at pre-draw and using more of the lateral muscles to push the bow arm forward at full draw. When I practice draw with this technique, it feels easier to suspend the weight on my frame and easier to straighten my bow arm.
Anyways, this is something I'll investigate in my next practice.
I was recently reading passages from Gao Ying, and it finally occurred to me why the archer illustrations have no neck. In one excerpt he says "胸欲欽，腹欲脡，足欲直，頭欲向前側視，弓稍欲斜", which translates to "The chest is hollow, the belly tucked in, the legs are straight, the head is tilted, and the bow is canted." He repeats the same idea in several other passages, and he even criticizes upright postures in one of the sections: http://www.cinnabarbow.com/gaoying/GaoY ... heBow.html
Here, Gao Ying describes a posture akin to Korean and Manchu styles of archery (and in a way is quite similar to Olympic archer except for the canting of the bow). So most likely, the archers in his illustrations have no necks because he's trying to depict them in the act of tilting their heads.
Canting the bow might also make it easier to hold the eagle claw grip he describes (wrist forward, similar to the FITA high grip). Anyway, I'll have to try this in practice.
Here, Gao Ying describes a posture akin to Korean and Manchu styles of archery (and in a way is quite similar to Olympic archer except for the canting of the bow). So most likely, the archers in his illustrations have no necks because he's trying to depict them in the act of tilting their heads.
Canting the bow might also make it easier to hold the eagle claw grip he describes (wrist forward, similar to the FITA high grip). Anyway, I'll have to try this in practice.
Stephen; I have seen the inward bending elbow. A coach I know teaches holding the bow at an angle in the palm resting against the base of the thumb at the palm. To me this bending is a result of the lazy elbow not wanting to do any work. My idea is to hold the elbow at less than 90 degrees just slightly. The Koreans teach rotating the elbow clockwise.
I prefer the strong arm technique myself.
I prefer the strong arm technique myself.