Mameluk archer test

This is based on the text of Taybugha translated in Saracen Archery by Latham and Paterson.

The original quote is " ... you take three arrows and stand and shoot over sixty bows' distance. If you shoot the third and only see the dust over the first after that third arrow has already left your hand, you are fast enough."

Preceding that in the text is this section, "For this purpose you take two staves, each the height to which you can reach, and set them up five cubits apart across the centre of a short range (ulki, see Comment). You then take a rope, fasten it to them, and shoot. If your arrows fly under the rope to the mark, their trajectory is sufficiently (lati), whereas if they go over it, their trajectory is too high (murtafi).

These quotes come from page 138. There is also a section above describing the dimensions of the target "five spans in diameter (about 38 inches) at sixty bows' distance".

In the comments section there is discussion about how the measurements were determined (i.e. the span, the short ulki and the bow length). This discussion is quite detailed on pages 141-142. They assume that a squatting archer (one of the preferred stances for target practice) would need to shoot an arrow at no less than 180 fps to get under the rope. From that as the minimum arrow speed, the other calculations were made.

In the text there is no implication that the dexterity test (shooting the three arrows rapidly) was conducted under the rope or aiming at a target. The grouping test, specifying the target, used with the trajectory test allowed the minimum arrow speed to be calculated. Once you had this figure it was possible to generate the rate of fire by specifying how long the first arrow would be in the air. What cannot be deduced is the angle at which the arrow was launched which would affect the time of flight before the arrow hit the ground. The calculated time of flight for the trajectory test was 1.25 seconds. Latham and Paterson speculated that three arrows in the air within 1.5 seconds could be the dexterity test, but an even higher angle would increase this time. However, there is no proof either way what angle was used.

Thanks Bede the fast help! It is very usefull!

We will make here a test like this and have to know the exact datas.

Greatings Z

Bede! Would U so kind to tell the exact chapter, where this extraction had taken.

We have another copy from Taybugha and the pages doesent help.

Thanks again ! Z

Chapter 25.
Section iv On Determining Whether an a Arrow is Fast or Slow
Section v On the Assessment of Grouping
Section vi On Assuring a Low Trajectory
Section vii on Determining Dexterity

Comments
2. Grouping of Arrows
3. The 'Short Ulki'
4. Trajectory
5. Dexterity and Rate of Shooting

Thank you very much!

We ve found it!

At the end of this month will make an archery test like that!

Bede!

We haven't found any exact data from Mamluk war arrows and arrow heads.

Just some mysculaneus things.

So is there any known datas, finds from Mamluk war arrows?

Greatings Z

I am sure that there are arrows in the Islamic Museum in Cairo. However, most dimensions are in Saracen Archery. There is an implication that the standard war arrow was a bit short for a normal sized man of the period, but it might relate to the shorter draw that comes from wearing a helmet with ear pieces. It might also suggest that the average height of archers had increased since the standard size for war arrows was set.

Thans the information again!

I've been looking for informations sice two month now.

The best I ve found was this page and this article, but of corse found some other things too. So now I schould say they had a moderated drawlenght as Tuskish archers (anchor point is useally in the corner of mouth or not longer draw), and use a war arrow wich could be very close to turkish ones?

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=1 ... &topic=109

from this book
Burke, Edmund. (1957). The History of Archery. New York: William Morrow and Company.
Do U know this book? Is this ok.?

and this arrow heads

[external image] the shop sad "tetrahedral type used by Shahis, Muslims, Mongols, 40-70mm"

I couldn't find any info from Cairo museum yet.

Those arrowheads would normally be classified as Roman. I have several of that type found in Britain.

Burke was a good book for its time but is now out of date.

Regarding the Mamluk draw length, Taybugha gives a clear account. They drew the thumb to the ear. Mustafa Kani, the Ottoman archer, in places quotes Taybugha and clearly in several different parts of his treatise says that the Turks also drew the hand as far as the ear. This is not the same as Taybugha's more precise description of drawing the thumb to the ear. The many manuscript illustrations showing a draw to the corner of the mouth may represent a different draw or the response to using the shorter military arrow. There are as many showing a draw to the ear. Bearing in mind that not everyone was the same height in the real world there is a strong possibility that the artists are representing different height people drawing a standard arrow. There is also the possibility we are looking at the variation in draw length described relating to the three famous masters, Tahir al-Balkhi, Ishaq ar-Raffa, and Abu-Hisham al-Bawardi.

The link you supplied probably not reliable. While the quotes reasonably accurate, the spelling isn't and the analysis might be considered superficial. This is not to say that the author has not put in good work, but this kind of article is not much use for reconstructing practice. The approach is useful; selecting original sources, finding contemporary experts in the field and looking for correspondences. However, it is better to go back to the original texts and analyse them yourself. You may make mistakes but they will be your own mistakes.

Ok! So I will do that!
The good news is, yesterday I ve got the professional translation from Tajabugha!

It gives precise datas! Enough for we could working on this project!

Thanks a lot for your help Bede!