Recreating a Cuman draw...
Good morning, folks.
I am a completely self-taught archer, so bear with me, and please correct any mistakes I make. I'm interested in recreating the sort of archery performed in medieval East-Central, Southeast, and Eastern Europe, particularly that practiced by the Cumans, Pechenegs, and similar. So, loosely speaking, that means "Hungarian" archery in modern terms. It turns out that I have a safety problem with my backyard range, so while that's being fixed and I'm unable to do my hundred-shaft-per-day program, I'm trying to see what I'm missing in terms of basic technique.
The first thing I noticed was that my peers in Hungary were not actually storing their arrows arrowhead-up in their quivers... so I made myself a pair of quivers for that purpose (no photos here, as I am only a beginning leatherworker, and my products are quite crude by the standards of the quivers that have been discussed lately!), and worked with a couple of draws-from-quiver that should have been workable, finally coming to one that would satisfy the requirements as I understand them, based on wall paintings, etcetera:
1. Multiple arrowheads must be able to be held in the hand (as opposed to how Kassai teaches with the arrows on the bow).
2. Arrow must to go the inside (right side for right-hander) of the bow so as to disallow the possibility of being scratched by one's own arrows. (It is known that arrows in this region were frequently poisoned -- a Byzantine Emperor actually died because his hand struck his own quiver while boar hunting)
3. The anchor point, if there is a positive anchor, appears to be in the vicinity of the sternum or clavicular junction, not at the jaw and ear.
4. The paintings seem to suggest a finger, rather than thumb release. Not the classic "mediterranean," but a sort of "assisted" version of the pinch-grip draw, where the middle and possibly ring finger helps to hold the string.
This gives me some problems. My shot speed is slowly climbing up into a reasonable level, especially as I slowly damage my snap-nocks and replace them on my practice shafts with less grippy ones. (Lord, do I hate snap nocks). But I am finding that with a heavier bow, the finger release seriously abrades the inside of the fingers.. and unlike further west, I cannot justify a leather protector for the fingers. Now, obviously, I could drop back to shooting a light-weight bow, but I'd prefer not to, if only because I only own one light bow, and that's a little dinky 22-lber for my wife. I'd have to trade either my main bow or my strength bow to do so, or else wait quite some time until I can afford to purchase another from Grozer. (which I'd happily do).
So, now that there's all that context...
a) is there a way to minimize string-peel on the fingers with a finger release? I would really prefer not to be dependent on gloves for shooting.
b) if not, is anyone familiar with evidence for the pre-Mongol Cumans using thumbrings?
I am a completely self-taught archer, so bear with me, and please correct any mistakes I make. I'm interested in recreating the sort of archery performed in medieval East-Central, Southeast, and Eastern Europe, particularly that practiced by the Cumans, Pechenegs, and similar. So, loosely speaking, that means "Hungarian" archery in modern terms. It turns out that I have a safety problem with my backyard range, so while that's being fixed and I'm unable to do my hundred-shaft-per-day program, I'm trying to see what I'm missing in terms of basic technique.
The first thing I noticed was that my peers in Hungary were not actually storing their arrows arrowhead-up in their quivers... so I made myself a pair of quivers for that purpose (no photos here, as I am only a beginning leatherworker, and my products are quite crude by the standards of the quivers that have been discussed lately!), and worked with a couple of draws-from-quiver that should have been workable, finally coming to one that would satisfy the requirements as I understand them, based on wall paintings, etcetera:
1. Multiple arrowheads must be able to be held in the hand (as opposed to how Kassai teaches with the arrows on the bow).
2. Arrow must to go the inside (right side for right-hander) of the bow so as to disallow the possibility of being scratched by one's own arrows. (It is known that arrows in this region were frequently poisoned -- a Byzantine Emperor actually died because his hand struck his own quiver while boar hunting)
3. The anchor point, if there is a positive anchor, appears to be in the vicinity of the sternum or clavicular junction, not at the jaw and ear.
4. The paintings seem to suggest a finger, rather than thumb release. Not the classic "mediterranean," but a sort of "assisted" version of the pinch-grip draw, where the middle and possibly ring finger helps to hold the string.
This gives me some problems. My shot speed is slowly climbing up into a reasonable level, especially as I slowly damage my snap-nocks and replace them on my practice shafts with less grippy ones. (Lord, do I hate snap nocks). But I am finding that with a heavier bow, the finger release seriously abrades the inside of the fingers.. and unlike further west, I cannot justify a leather protector for the fingers. Now, obviously, I could drop back to shooting a light-weight bow, but I'd prefer not to, if only because I only own one light bow, and that's a little dinky 22-lber for my wife. I'd have to trade either my main bow or my strength bow to do so, or else wait quite some time until I can afford to purchase another from Grozer. (which I'd happily do).
So, now that there's all that context...
a) is there a way to minimize string-peel on the fingers with a finger release? I would really prefer not to be dependent on gloves for shooting.
b) if not, is anyone familiar with evidence for the pre-Mongol Cumans using thumbrings?
Russ,
Cuman/Qipchaq slaves introduced the use of thumbrings to Mameluk
Egypt prior to the expansion of Mongols, their familarity with the use of the
thumbring can be assumed.
Cuman/Qipchaq slaves introduced the use of thumbrings to Mameluk
Egypt prior to the expansion of Mongols, their familarity with the use of the
thumbring can be assumed.
Thanks for the reply, friend. Unfortunately, I think it's more complex than that. Who organized the training of those Qipcaq slaves in Egypt? These are things I don't know. Does the majra require the use of a thumbring? If so, then one would certainly posit knowledge of the thumbring among the Seljuk Turks...
Fantasy art aside (unfortunately, modern Hungarian artists tend to take some severe liberties: one of those pictures even manages to put the bowcase backwards, and you should SEE some of the things put on the calendar my sister-in-law in Budapest gave me), take a look at the fresco sketch... that's clearly not a thumb draw, but an assisted pinch. With the possible exception of one of the frescoes that was painted over in modern times, none of them seem to show any sort of thumb lock.
And I am certainly not averse to using a thumb lock draw. But I haven't seen any concrete evidence to suggest that it's definitely the way to go, as opposed to keeping both options open.
Fantasy art aside (unfortunately, modern Hungarian artists tend to take some severe liberties: one of those pictures even manages to put the bowcase backwards, and you should SEE some of the things put on the calendar my sister-in-law in Budapest gave me), take a look at the fresco sketch... that's clearly not a thumb draw, but an assisted pinch. With the possible exception of one of the frescoes that was painted over in modern times, none of them seem to show any sort of thumb lock.
And I am certainly not averse to using a thumb lock draw. But I haven't seen any concrete evidence to suggest that it's definitely the way to go, as opposed to keeping both options open.
Russ,
I have to agree with you about the fantasy nature of some modern art representing Kuman/Kipchaks in hungary and elsewhere.
The Byzantines knew about thumb rings judging by the surviving works on archery. Since they didn't learn about them from the Sassanid Persians, it is logical to assume they learnt from steppe tribes. No one is sure who, but many suspect the Avars.
The Seljuks had thumb rings from the literary evidence. I am not sure who, but one of the advisers to Mahmud or Ghazni or his father Sebuktigin recommended the cutting off of the thumbs of the captured Seljuk warriors to destroy their archery ability.
Thimble-like finger tabs are ancient among peoples using the Mediterranean release and some are illustrated in Saracen Archery. The early Parthians are depicted at least once holding arrows in the bow hand on horseback. I don't think it was very common later when the arrows became larger and more unwieldy.
The Kuman/Kipchak tribes may have used more than one release before the Mongol conquest, but there is no doubt that the Mongols promoted thumb ring use when they conquered the west. Perhaps many of them were leather as used today in Mongolia.
The bronze rings found in the Balkans, which are often misidentified as Roman, are probably a mix of steppe Turkish, Byzantine and Osmanli.
Early Hungarian paintings of Kumans have some details that show direct observation, but they are far from being wholly realistic. In the 1430s, the Hungarians were reported as using composite bows and the Mediterranean release.
I have to agree with you about the fantasy nature of some modern art representing Kuman/Kipchaks in hungary and elsewhere.
The Byzantines knew about thumb rings judging by the surviving works on archery. Since they didn't learn about them from the Sassanid Persians, it is logical to assume they learnt from steppe tribes. No one is sure who, but many suspect the Avars.
The Seljuks had thumb rings from the literary evidence. I am not sure who, but one of the advisers to Mahmud or Ghazni or his father Sebuktigin recommended the cutting off of the thumbs of the captured Seljuk warriors to destroy their archery ability.
Thimble-like finger tabs are ancient among peoples using the Mediterranean release and some are illustrated in Saracen Archery. The early Parthians are depicted at least once holding arrows in the bow hand on horseback. I don't think it was very common later when the arrows became larger and more unwieldy.
The Kuman/Kipchak tribes may have used more than one release before the Mongol conquest, but there is no doubt that the Mongols promoted thumb ring use when they conquered the west. Perhaps many of them were leather as used today in Mongolia.
The bronze rings found in the Balkans, which are often misidentified as Roman, are probably a mix of steppe Turkish, Byzantine and Osmanli.
Early Hungarian paintings of Kumans have some details that show direct observation, but they are far from being wholly realistic. In the 1430s, the Hungarians were reported as using composite bows and the Mediterranean release.
Bede, Russ,
I wasn't dead serious about posting this fantasy Qipshaq paintings, it was rather meant as a recreational frolic.....
Even the medieval fresco has some fantasy aspects; although it shows some things like the quiver and the bark cover of the bow in great detail, much of the the medieval paintings of Asian people are a fantasy to some extent ,due to the painters reliance on hear say.....
Bede, I didn't know that the Qipchaqs used more than one release prior to the Mongol invasion. Are you sure about that? What release was used by
the Onugur,Hun and Kara Hun people? I don't believe they've used the mediterranean release.....When Magyars started using mediterranean release, I think that this happened under Slav influence since the plains of Hungary where not entirely inhabited by Magyars. Remember that they also gave up their nomadic livestyle under the influence of Slavs.People usually adjust themselves when confronted with a stronger civilization as happened to the Mongol Ilkhans, the Balkan Bulqars & others......
Now, is the thumbring a Mongol invention? I don't think so.
Bede, I would like to post here again the english translation of " Kitab fi bayau fadl al-qaws wa-al-sahm wa-awsufihima " and " Kitab ghunyat at-tullab fi marifat ramy an-mushshab ". I know that you don't like me doing this, as it lacks the commentary by the translators, still I believe its
better than nothing if you don't have the book.... In " Kitab ghunyat at-tullab fi marifat ramy an-mushshab " it gives some account on majra
technique in chapter 26.
[url]
http://www.deremilitari.org/RESOURCES/s ... rchery.htm
http://www.caama.ca/kitab2/seclistin.html
http://www.caama.ca/kitab/clisting.html
Greetings & Salaam
PS: Use of majra can be very dangerous!
I wasn't dead serious about posting this fantasy Qipshaq paintings, it was rather meant as a recreational frolic.....
Even the medieval fresco has some fantasy aspects; although it shows some things like the quiver and the bark cover of the bow in great detail, much of the the medieval paintings of Asian people are a fantasy to some extent ,due to the painters reliance on hear say.....
Bede, I didn't know that the Qipchaqs used more than one release prior to the Mongol invasion. Are you sure about that? What release was used by
the Onugur,Hun and Kara Hun people? I don't believe they've used the mediterranean release.....When Magyars started using mediterranean release, I think that this happened under Slav influence since the plains of Hungary where not entirely inhabited by Magyars. Remember that they also gave up their nomadic livestyle under the influence of Slavs.People usually adjust themselves when confronted with a stronger civilization as happened to the Mongol Ilkhans, the Balkan Bulqars & others......
Now, is the thumbring a Mongol invention? I don't think so.
Bede, I would like to post here again the english translation of " Kitab fi bayau fadl al-qaws wa-al-sahm wa-awsufihima " and " Kitab ghunyat at-tullab fi marifat ramy an-mushshab ". I know that you don't like me doing this, as it lacks the commentary by the translators, still I believe its
better than nothing if you don't have the book.... In " Kitab ghunyat at-tullab fi marifat ramy an-mushshab " it gives some account on majra
technique in chapter 26.
[url]
http://www.deremilitari.org/RESOURCES/s ... rchery.htm
http://www.caama.ca/kitab2/seclistin.html
http://www.caama.ca/kitab/clisting.html
Greetings & Salaam
PS: Use of majra can be very dangerous!
Yes, interpreting from frescoes is, shall we say, "nontrivial?"
Thanks for the replies, everybody.
Thanks for the replies, everybody.
Russ,
A Hungarian writer,Istv?n V?s?ry, has written a book: " Cumans and Tatars "
oriental military in pre Ottoman Balkan. I haven't read it but it may reveal some more about the Cumans........
A Hungarian writer,Istv?n V?s?ry, has written a book: " Cumans and Tatars "
oriental military in pre Ottoman Balkan. I haven't read it but it may reveal some more about the Cumans........
Alam,
Don't worry: I appreciated the humour of your posting. I can be a bit pedantic when I know many people of differing levels of interest are reading something. You would be surprised at some of the misinformation that gets around.
Regarding the Kumans/Kipchaq styles of shooting, I suggest you look at my article on early archers' rings. The only datable early rings on the Russian steppe I found in my research were Golden Horde burials.
In my opinion the Mongols were not around when thumb rings were invented. All the very early rings come from China. The Turkish migrations to the West were made up of many differing groups: some from direct contact with China and some from the forest-steppe borders to the north like the Kirghiz. These two streams of Turkish culture sometimes mixed and other times carried pure traditions of their origins.
I once had a conversation with the Siberian archaeologist, Vladimir Kubarev, and he told me he had never found thumb rings in early Turkish burials. I think the Blue Turks might have been a different matter. Some of the tribes must have carried thumb rings West both along the steppe corridor and through Iran because the Byzantines knew of thumb rings and there is the famous Fustat ring found in Egypt.
I mentioned the same question to Sergei Minaev, the notable excavator of Xiongnu burials, in an e-mail and he likewise said he had not found a thumb ring in Xiongnu excavation.
The absence of evidence is not grounds for total exclusion, but the balance of probabilites does not favour thumb ring use by the ancestors of the Kipchaks. Some at least of the early Turkish tribes were influenced by the Iranians, whether Sakas, Parthians or Sassanians. The distinctive Sassanian release is documented as far east as Dunhuang and it looks from engravings that the Sakas in the last phase of their history used a similar release. All variations of this release are Mediterannean: they only vary in what fingers are used. They all would have permitted holding arrows in the drawing hand under the thumb.
Leather rings would have perished of course. This fact is balanced by another fact that in a number of burials as far east as Xinjiang bracers for the bow arm are found. Real bracers as opposed the sleeve retainers are rarely found where thumb rings are found.
I should mention, too, that there was an indepentent invention of the thumb ring in Africa in the first centuries of the common era. Groups in Nubia developed a kingdom with some unique features as well as some interesting links to the ancient Nubian kingdom and Egypt itself. The rings were cylindrical and look slightly like Qing rings, but were much earlier.
Don't worry: I appreciated the humour of your posting. I can be a bit pedantic when I know many people of differing levels of interest are reading something. You would be surprised at some of the misinformation that gets around.
Regarding the Kumans/Kipchaq styles of shooting, I suggest you look at my article on early archers' rings. The only datable early rings on the Russian steppe I found in my research were Golden Horde burials.
In my opinion the Mongols were not around when thumb rings were invented. All the very early rings come from China. The Turkish migrations to the West were made up of many differing groups: some from direct contact with China and some from the forest-steppe borders to the north like the Kirghiz. These two streams of Turkish culture sometimes mixed and other times carried pure traditions of their origins.
I once had a conversation with the Siberian archaeologist, Vladimir Kubarev, and he told me he had never found thumb rings in early Turkish burials. I think the Blue Turks might have been a different matter. Some of the tribes must have carried thumb rings West both along the steppe corridor and through Iran because the Byzantines knew of thumb rings and there is the famous Fustat ring found in Egypt.
I mentioned the same question to Sergei Minaev, the notable excavator of Xiongnu burials, in an e-mail and he likewise said he had not found a thumb ring in Xiongnu excavation.
The absence of evidence is not grounds for total exclusion, but the balance of probabilites does not favour thumb ring use by the ancestors of the Kipchaks. Some at least of the early Turkish tribes were influenced by the Iranians, whether Sakas, Parthians or Sassanians. The distinctive Sassanian release is documented as far east as Dunhuang and it looks from engravings that the Sakas in the last phase of their history used a similar release. All variations of this release are Mediterannean: they only vary in what fingers are used. They all would have permitted holding arrows in the drawing hand under the thumb.
Leather rings would have perished of course. This fact is balanced by another fact that in a number of burials as far east as Xinjiang bracers for the bow arm are found. Real bracers as opposed the sleeve retainers are rarely found where thumb rings are found.
I should mention, too, that there was an indepentent invention of the thumb ring in Africa in the first centuries of the common era. Groups in Nubia developed a kingdom with some unique features as well as some interesting links to the ancient Nubian kingdom and Egypt itself. The rings were cylindrical and look slightly like Qing rings, but were much earlier.
The treatise writer seems a bit self-contradictory.
Bede,
you are right, what I said was based on no archaeological findings.I often remain a bit sceptical on the results of modern scientific research. One cannot really reconstruct a true picture of the past by excavating burial sites and the like....don't you agree? But it may be the best thing one could do at the moment. I am not really against it..... just a little sceptical sometimes.....What if the Xiong Nu/Hun or G?kt?rk made their thumbrings from a perishable material like horn for instance, or if they, for reasons unknown,did not bury their dead with a thumbring....then it wouldn't be found by the excavation team....however, maybe I am to sceptical. I've read your article on early archers rings. That was very interesting.In particular the development from Shang style ring toward the warring states thumbring in crossection. I don't doubt that the thumbring technique was developed in China.What is completely new to me is the Nubian thumbring.I have heard though from Central African people who also practised the Mongolian release.But I am not sure about that.
Was the Nubian ring dating back to the empire of Kush or was it earlier than that?( Nubia was called by the ancient Egyptians"Ta-Seti"-Land of the Bow).
About the Cuman draw I can only assume.I don't know much about it.
Better I keep quiet from now on......
Greetings & Salaam
you are right, what I said was based on no archaeological findings.I often remain a bit sceptical on the results of modern scientific research. One cannot really reconstruct a true picture of the past by excavating burial sites and the like....don't you agree? But it may be the best thing one could do at the moment. I am not really against it..... just a little sceptical sometimes.....What if the Xiong Nu/Hun or G?kt?rk made their thumbrings from a perishable material like horn for instance, or if they, for reasons unknown,did not bury their dead with a thumbring....then it wouldn't be found by the excavation team....however, maybe I am to sceptical. I've read your article on early archers rings. That was very interesting.In particular the development from Shang style ring toward the warring states thumbring in crossection. I don't doubt that the thumbring technique was developed in China.What is completely new to me is the Nubian thumbring.I have heard though from Central African people who also practised the Mongolian release.But I am not sure about that.
Was the Nubian ring dating back to the empire of Kush or was it earlier than that?( Nubia was called by the ancient Egyptians"Ta-Seti"-Land of the Bow).
About the Cuman draw I can only assume.I don't know much about it.
Better I keep quiet from now on......
Greetings & Salaam
[quote="Bede"]The absence of evidence is not grounds for total exclusion, but the balance of probabilites does not favour thumb ring use by the ancestors of the Kipchaks. Some at least of the early Turkish tribes were influenced by the Iranians, whether Sakas, Parthians or Sassanians. The distinctive Sassanian release is documented as far east as Dunhuang and it looks from engravings that the Sakas in the last phase of their history used a similar release. All variations of this release are Mediterannean: they only vary in what fingers are used. They all would have permitted holding arrows in the drawing hand under the thumb.
Bede,
I may be completely wrong, but as I checked the illustrations of Sahname by Firdausi last week, what I saw was something like a thumb release without ring. As this book is about the Sassanian dinasty, I'm confused... Best, Szabi
Bede,
I may be completely wrong, but as I checked the illustrations of Sahname by Firdausi last week, what I saw was something like a thumb release without ring. As this book is about the Sassanian dinasty, I'm confused... Best, Szabi
Szabi,
The Shahnamah of Firdausi was composed under the patronship of Mahmud of Ghazni, after the introduction of thumb rings in Eastern Iran. All illustrations are later than the composition and usually portray the equipment used at the time of painting. There was no attempt at historical accuracy, though you might notice that the archery manuals were aware that there were more types of release than the contemporary ones.
That being said, there was a strong tendency to use historical figures as exemplars of current styles. The Sassanian Shah Bahram Gur (Vahram) is a prime example. Because he was known as a great archer and he had many contacts with early Arab tribes, he was very popular as a historical source of techniques.
We have three sources of information on ancient archery: texts; artwork and archaelology. Some cultures produced all three. There are books, paintings and dated rings from the Middle East and China for instance. The Nubian tribes of the second century of our era produced rings which survived in datable tombs. In one drawing I saw, the ring was still on the body of the king. Unlike the Chinese and Turkish rings, there is no literature surviving to tell us how the rings were used.
In regard to the absence of rings in Persian and Turkish paintings, there is an interesting pattern. In general, rings aren't shown. You rarely see finger rings either. We know they existed and I assume that they were left out because of the small size of the images. In some cases, you can see the small piece of paint used to show the thumb ring wearing away. I have seen two photographs of the same Persian painting, taken years apart where the ring had almost faded away.
Unfortunately the study of ancient archery is not easy, but the compensation is that it is a lot of fun. Some of us make bows, some look through old books and some shoot.
The Shahnamah of Firdausi was composed under the patronship of Mahmud of Ghazni, after the introduction of thumb rings in Eastern Iran. All illustrations are later than the composition and usually portray the equipment used at the time of painting. There was no attempt at historical accuracy, though you might notice that the archery manuals were aware that there were more types of release than the contemporary ones.
That being said, there was a strong tendency to use historical figures as exemplars of current styles. The Sassanian Shah Bahram Gur (Vahram) is a prime example. Because he was known as a great archer and he had many contacts with early Arab tribes, he was very popular as a historical source of techniques.
We have three sources of information on ancient archery: texts; artwork and archaelology. Some cultures produced all three. There are books, paintings and dated rings from the Middle East and China for instance. The Nubian tribes of the second century of our era produced rings which survived in datable tombs. In one drawing I saw, the ring was still on the body of the king. Unlike the Chinese and Turkish rings, there is no literature surviving to tell us how the rings were used.
In regard to the absence of rings in Persian and Turkish paintings, there is an interesting pattern. In general, rings aren't shown. You rarely see finger rings either. We know they existed and I assume that they were left out because of the small size of the images. In some cases, you can see the small piece of paint used to show the thumb ring wearing away. I have seen two photographs of the same Persian painting, taken years apart where the ring had almost faded away.
Unfortunately the study of ancient archery is not easy, but the compensation is that it is a lot of fun. Some of us make bows, some look through old books and some shoot.
Bede,
Thank you!
For me it means that we have to be careful with the illustrations of the hungarian Illuminated Chronicle which was made some hundred years after the Conquest...
Thanks again, Szabi
Thank you!
For me it means that we have to be careful with the illustrations of the hungarian Illuminated Chronicle which was made some hundred years after the Conquest...
Thanks again, Szabi
Szabi,
The only contemporary foreign account of mediaeval Hungarian archers I have found recently is that Bertrandon de la Brocquiere's. He was a Burgundian knight who went on a pilgrimage to the Holy Land and returned through Turkey and the Balkans to Central Europe.
His aim in writing his account was to encourage the Duke of Burgundy to mount a Crusade against the Ottoman Turks. As a result there are several military evaluations in the work that might be suspect . However, he was a careful observer and made friends with a Mamluk on his journey from Palestine to Anatolia. From him he learnt archery.
Despite his many prejudices, he was very open minded for his time, but he was still influenced by his individual experiences with a member of a culture. Some groups, both Christian and Muslim, were very critically assessed.
All in all, the account is amazing for the 1430s. By that time Hungarian archery had probably declined. Although the influx of Kumans, just before the Mongol invasion, may have given it some impetus.
The only contemporary foreign account of mediaeval Hungarian archers I have found recently is that Bertrandon de la Brocquiere's. He was a Burgundian knight who went on a pilgrimage to the Holy Land and returned through Turkey and the Balkans to Central Europe.
His aim in writing his account was to encourage the Duke of Burgundy to mount a Crusade against the Ottoman Turks. As a result there are several military evaluations in the work that might be suspect . However, he was a careful observer and made friends with a Mamluk on his journey from Palestine to Anatolia. From him he learnt archery.
Despite his many prejudices, he was very open minded for his time, but he was still influenced by his individual experiences with a member of a culture. Some groups, both Christian and Muslim, were very critically assessed.
All in all, the account is amazing for the 1430s. By that time Hungarian archery had probably declined. Although the influx of Kumans, just before the Mongol invasion, may have given it some impetus.
Bede: Is there a copy or publication that you know of that is not in antiquarian status? I'd like to check it, now that I'm reminded of it, because he also describes how the Hungarian tournament differs from those in the west...
Szabi: Szervusz! The Illuminated Chronicle is usually very accurate... for the era in which it was illuminated. Very, very good for the 14th century (which is okay for me, since I'm mostly looking into the Neopolitan Succession Wars).
Adnan: Thank you. The book is excellent, but unfortunately on this topic has nothing to say regarding archery...
Szabi: Szervusz! The Illuminated Chronicle is usually very accurate... for the era in which it was illuminated. Very, very good for the 14th century (which is okay for me, since I'm mostly looking into the Neopolitan Succession Wars).
Adnan: Thank you. The book is excellent, but unfortunately on this topic has nothing to say regarding archery...
Russ,
I bought mine several years ago. I think I found it on www.abebooks.com in a bookshop in New York. The first time I tried, I ended up with a copy in Old French. It took me a month to read with all those archaic spellings. I am sure there are copies still available.
I bought mine several years ago. I think I found it on www.abebooks.com in a bookshop in New York. The first time I tried, I ended up with a copy in Old French. It took me a month to read with all those archaic spellings. I am sure there are copies still available.