Sassanid Draw

what you describe is normal for the "mongolian" release.

there are different ways of aiming described for example in Saracen Archery, Arab Archery, Kitab fi'ilm al-nussab and Chinese Archery which are contemporary (ca. 14th century), very interesting to read and provide suggestions how to correct errors...

your problem might be that you use the right eye for aiming mediterranean style, which brings the arrows to the right if you switch to thumb draw.

If I remember well, Ṭaybughā (Saracen Archery) prefers aiming with the left eye as the fast military style. Herein the bow or bow-hand prevents the right eye from seeing the target at the time of a "snatched" release.

8)

What I like about Arab Archery is that it offers options and describes more styles of shooting. The aiming eye depends on the drawing length.

With the sassanid draw and with the arrow on the right side of the bow, the string is released inside the bow, towards the left hand. Thus, the nock is pushed inside at release and the arrow will be pointing more to the right. The arrows might also hit the bow and deviate even more.

The 3 finger draw has the arrow on the left and releases the string on the left. The thumb draw has the arrow on the right and releases the string on the right side too. The sassanid draw, like the modern mongolian thumb draw with the arrow on the left side, has to overcome mixing these directions (right and left).

I see two options:
1. Apply lateral torque to the bow handle (I hope the bow can take this). When the nock leaves the string, the arrow should be pointing at the target and the bow should be considerably pointing to the left.

Although this is shot with a thumbring, try to have the same bow direction as at 00:19, when the arrow leaves the nock.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8-UuBeDeCg&feature=plcp

This should get the bow out of the arrow's way.

2. Use arrows with a lower spine, or make sure you use the right spine so that the arrow "bends around the handle"

My experience with similar release is the same.

It requires significantly less spin than the thumbring and mediterranean draw.

I am in doubt about your use of of a nock point is also a problem with this draw, but do not know it ?

sincerely
Lars Andersen

It's definitely not an aiming problem. In the first place I usually shoot thumb so the arrow itself is not moving. Second, I have experimented by canting the bow. Canting anti-clockwise send the arrow high right and clockwise goes low right. In other words the arrow is definitely flying away from the bow, which to me means string twist or bounce off the handle.

When I started experimenting with this draw several years ago, I shot on both the left and right sides of the bow. I am right handed and shoot normally with a thumb draw and found the right side of the bow most comfortable for aiming. After more than thirty years shooting with thumb draws, I think my brain automatically compensates for arrow defection to the right. This was so much in evidence in my shooting that whenever I shot three fingers style my arrows went so far left that excessive compensation was necessary. Recently I found I can shoot and aim effectively with three fingers if I put the arrow on the right of the bow. This convinced me that the brain is the most important component in aiming. I reversed the process and shot on the left with both the thumb ring and three fingers and had roughly equal deflections though there was a slight variation.

I think it is necessary to look at your draw length as well. If you use a very long draw with the arrow on the right of the bow, the nock is deflected to the right from your line of sight. This goes some way to reducing arrow flight to the right of the target. By turning your head slightly away from the target so that the right eye is looking across the bridge of your nose, the rear of the arrow is deflected farther to the right again bringing the flight of the arrow closer to where you are aiming.

Another component of this process is stance and it changes with distance. I think it might also be very individual depending on your physical conformation and how you draw the bow (not how you hold the string). Contrary to logic, I have found an oblique stance at short ranges and a squarer one at long ranges is the most effective. That is: stand like a long-bowman at close range and stand like a Korean archer at long range. The oblique shoulders-in-line with the target stance seems to me to be very accurate up to 50 metres, while beyond that progressively squarer stances and a canted bow allow more accurate shooting. As I mentioned above this is an individual and subjective observation. People with different builds might have the reverse effect. While the descriptions of physical builds and the required stances are stylised and simplified in Arab Archery and Saracen Archery, thinking about the ideas they express is worthwhile when looking for a solution to your own problem.

Yesterday I tried essentially snapping the wrist of the bow hand away from the arrow as I shot. This rectified the problem, giving me nice straight arrows.

Obviously I don't really want to be moving my wrist if I can help it but the effectiveness of this move suggests to me that the problem was that the arrow was bouncing off the bow rather than being twisted away from it. I shall try changing my anchor point to see whether bringing it towar my body makes a difference.

Contrary to logic, I have found an oblique stance at short ranges and a squarer one at long ranges is the most effective.

I found the same thing, but i do not think it is contrary to logic. Usually at short ranges we shoot downwards and at long ranges, upwards. I find it easier to twist the torso more when the front shoulder is higher. This might be because the distance between the hips and the front (left) shoulder increases when shooting higher.

Do you draw with the tips of your middle and ring fingers only or do you curl them around the string?

The logic I was referring to was that the longer ranges would need a stronger bow and more powerful draw. I have never tested this next idea, but I think that with some weights of arrows they may be at different horizontal deflections from the line of sight at different distances from the archer. This could simply because of slightly different positions of the head needed to view the target. I am not talking about the oscillations in the first few metres. I mean that at closer ranges I aim from the left of the bow and at longer ranges I aim from the right. Of course this depends on the type of bows being used. Turkish style grips are less sensitive to these aiming problems than Korean for instance. It might have to do with the geometry of the limbs.

Deviation of arrows to the right while shooting righthanded is due to arrow pushing against the bow side.
Remedies, as already mentioned, are two, or conjunction of both:
1) Shooting straight - that means the arrow must not touch the bow side while passing by. Deflection of your bow wrist is enough, just stress a bit the back side of your bow wrist. As soon the stress of the bow eleviates, the wrist will turn outwards.
2). Pull your string wrist away from your breast/shoulder/chin/eyebrow/nose wherever you draw to... Just half of an inch will suffice. Or less. Or more.
3). Use both simultaneously.
Finally choose which way is better.

Why don't you put your index finger below the arrow nock? Thumb may add to fixing the nock point. The fingers should be at som angle at the string, fingernails pointing downwards. The indexfingerside presses slightly on the arrow nock, not allowing it to slip off the thumb on the bow. Even if you tilt the bow. But not too strong, or arrow will jump off the bow side.
BRDS

One technique of supporting the arrow with the bow hand has the point resting in the "V" formed by the end of the index finger touching the side of the tip of the thumb. This requires an extremely relaxed index finger and thumb or the delicate skin on the side of the thumb nail will be split. In this method, the arrow is not touching the side of the bow at all, but is a few millimetres away from it.

However, a stiff arrow will still go to the right because of simple geometry. If you imagine a line from the centre of the base of the nock to the centre of the belly of the bow, it is at an angle to the full drawn arrow. If the grip is 20 mm wide and the draw is 75 cm, the angle is very small, but as the distance increases the effective deflection in centimetres is easily observable. If you are right eyed (i.e. the dominant eye is your right) and close your left eye, then your aim will be more effective over distance. We all know that with any sort of aiming that does not involve physical sights there is some variation no matter how much you concentrate.

The path of the string is affected to some degree by the direction which it leaves the fingers or the thumb. A smooth release introduces less deflection which in turn reduces the amplitude of oscillation of the arrow as it leaves the bow. The stiffness of the arrow affects the frequency at which it oscillates and the amplitude. These factors cause the so-called "Archer's Paradox". In the last two hundred years, English archers introduced the practice of consciously matching the stiffness to the length of arrows in a given bow (spine). On this site there have been many discussions of this relating to thumb rings and I think that these questions are relevant to the Sasanian release as well. Both releases have a smaller deflection of the string and both release from under the arrow nock.

I think we have to analyse the problem in several parts.

• 1. Geometry of the arrow, bow and aiming eye which determines roughly what angle it starts at and where the archer is looking.
  2. Stiffness and length of the arrow which determines how it will oscillate.
  3. Method of holding the arrow at both ends which determines what other pressures are put on the arrows.

Concerning 1. we have discussed this in part above. Concerning 2., this is something you can observe particularly on long shots. Concerning 3., you may have to have someone watch just as you release to see if you tense the index finger against the arrow or let the arrow fall away from the side of the bow grip.

1. Geometry of the arrow, bow and aiming eye which determines roughly what angle it starts at and where the archer is looking.
2. Stiffness and length of the arrow which determines how it will oscillate.
3. Method of holding the arrow at both ends which determines what other pressures are put on the arrows.

Nice. Basing on purely personal experience? Ok. It is easy to test personally, if anybody wishes to.
That is easy. The whole technique of normal, or natural, shooting is very easy. Otherwise it would not survive till our days.

1. Arrow geometry.
Eventually (for me at least), geometry appears to be a candle, broad at arrowhead (circ. 10 mm), tapered to string nock (circa 7mm). Thus your arrow, while leaving the bow will not scratch its side. Or, maybe, first third should be cylindrical, two thirds tapered. Planning to make both in sufficient quantaty and test myself and give several friends to test and compare.

Arrow-bow-aiming system geometry (if this is what you mean).
If you spread the bow in old fashion, the geometry (viewed from top) should resemble trapezium (with two parallel sides), and the arrow-bow plane is parallel to shooter's sight plane.
Of course, the archer is looking with both eyes at the target. He does not see the bow (but bow's side, with lateral sight), he sees target only, and the whole field (very important in old times). If his arrow is long, he might see part of bow more definetely, because these two planes come closer to each other, if compared with shorter arrow. The idea is to make the arrow-bow plane cross with target, location of which is determined by your sight plane (vision?). Ideally this two planes cross at the target some distance away. Which distance you need not know. Your binocular sight will determine it for you, the mind will coordinate the rest, just do not interfere. You may interfere if the target changed and you need to shift your shaft to different direction. The rest is the same.
And do not hold your hand too close to your body. Move the string farther away, so that the string was visible if you look in your face, not hidden behind the bow. This will help to launch your shafts straight without any paradox.

2. The stiffer - the better, less oscillation - the better.

3. Normally one holds arrow only by the side of index finger at the string nock. That's enough, even if you tilt your bow for some purpose. Sometimes people prefer to tilt their bow, because it is easy to aim without aiming - the arrow (form beneath the bow) flies in the direction where the fist points at. One's mind had to adapt to distance only. Very comfortable and korean way.
This pertains both to ring and "sassanidian".
By the way, why "sassanidian"? The rest are not allowed to use it? I thought that it was a way of shooting in emergency, when you have no time to put on a ring or you have lost it, or left at home on the piano.
The pressure on arrow is minimum minimorum. Excess is always harmful. Just do not let if fall from your thumb, and let some space between arrow and bow side - that's easy.
It is not necessary to form V fingerform at bow grip. Better is to streach index finger forward to sense arrowhead. Remember - you do not see it. And arrow length might be different, in real life, of course. Initially, after you nocked the arrow, you raise both hands up - you do not see the arrow. Then, you spread the bow - you do not see arrow. At "zero point" you have to release the arrow, but you do not see the end of the arrow, to determine when it ends.
Hold index finger slightly above the shaft and glide it forcelessly along. As you sense the arrow head, or bandage around - release. There's nothing left to do, if the technique is mastered and you did everything naturally.

About breath. Belly breathing only. The rest is harmful.

About mind. Do not let it guide, rule or correct the process. Mindful interference is useful only when you start training by a mirror, without shooting, and at initial stages of shooting. As soon as automation is reached - occupy you mind with anything but shooting. Watch the field, think about football, or speak some poem in your mind.
One of the most popular mistakes - when shooter makes everything normally, but at last looks at his arrow and realises, that it is pointed in some strange direction, not like you see it in the Robin Hood cartoons - and begins to correct the "problem". The arrow hits ceiling, if available.
Do not try to look at the arrow nock "aiming". This will not help. The shooting will be spoiled.
Do not look along the arrow. This will ruin the technique. And the arrow will hit different location, not the one you just saw along it.
Your task is to shoot straight - the shaft should fly parallel to your sight.

So easy.

Most of the comments I made above were from direct experience. The reason I referred to this two fingered draw as the "Sasanid" draw several years ago when I started discussing the draw several years ago on this forum was that this was the name it had in historic archery literature, notably in Morse who thought it was a thumb draw. The greatest number of illustrations of people using the draw come from Sasanid silver platters and they are also the earliest examples of it. There is a mural at Dunhuang of someone shooting this way on horseback, proving if there was any doubt that it was used outside of Iran. The Mediterranean Release is used by people outside of the Mediterranean and the Mongolian Release existed before there were Mongols, so the naming of a technique is something of a historical accident.

Regarding 1) I was writing about the combined geometry of the bow, arrow and eye. Bows with limbs deliberately out of line, like Korean bows, make aiming different to using a straight up and down bow like a Turkish or Persian bow. Aiming inside or outside the bow makes a difference too. By this I mean, aiming with the left edge of the bow (outside) or the right edge (inside) of the bow. Canting the bow also influences where the edge of the bow is relating to the eye line.

Regarding draw length checking, I use the Middle Eastern system where you draw the point of the arrow right onto the thumb. The base of the arrowhead usually is easy to feel on the skin of the thumb. In the Persian changal-baz grasp, the index finger is curled behind the back of the grip and is nowhere near the arrowhead. In the other Middle Eastern grasps, the index finger is curled around the grip resting on the thumb or next to it. I had not heard of the finger feeling the point technique until I was reading proofs of Chinese Archery and it made me feel very uneasy. I think this is because Middle Eastern bow grips were smaller in diameter than Manchu ones.

Another idea that might be useful is how the string leaves the fingers. In an ordinary release, the fingers are pulled back off the string in a straight line related to the direction of the arrow. Recently I experimented with twisting the wrist so that the finger tips moved diagonally off the string which seemed faster.

One of my ideas is to let people test on their own experience the way of natural shooting. Upon testing they might work out "own opinion" - and this would be great.
General view from my side - no critical objections. But some minor details. Which can be easily neglected. But. Always this but...

About terms and namings. As soon as man gives name to anything - it becomes deviated from reality. This cannot be escaped, just need to take it into consideration. My personal opinion: doubtfull, that only Sassanids used this way of string holding. In those days borders were transparent even to greater extent than W.European borders today. Sassanid plates are found in great numbers at the Urals and around. And if you look at Scithian golden bowls and so on, you will see finger pointing forward, and this is not chinese vases. Some chinese Tang period pictures show index finger crooked and the arrow lying below thу thumb, on the middle finger. And legs in qigong pose. What it means? Nothing. Just anything is possible anywhere.
The Saxons brought their way of shooting to Britain. They used Mideterrainean release? Why? They brought it from Asia, from the banks of the Volga-river and steeps of Don basin? Not probable very much. Where could they acquire Mideterrainean release before clenching with Britons on the Isles? In Northern Europe? Aha, they passed some time at the Mediterrainean coast, training in summer camps. Well, who in the region used Mediterrainean release?
Let's numerate and check.
1. Assirians? Judjing on bas-reliefs left in abundance - no.
2. Egyptians? The same case. No.
3. Greeks, Romans, Karthagenians, Etruskians, Arabs, Saraceens, Persians, Parfians, Armenians, Chroatians, Serbs, Turks,.... thousands of names of different and same people may be mentioned - the answer is - No.
Is there anybody shooting mediterrainean in the Mediterrainean?
How the Saxons came to Mediterrainean release if it was not there? The answer is - they did not. They released normally, as it was customly in Euroasia. In this or that way. Anyway, but not Miditerrainean, because it did not exists at that time. Becaus there was no need of such.
Shooting was natural and aiming was not invented untill, guess, maybe, about, nearly, somewhere XVI century.
Well. Too much, it seems.

Are you sure that left edge of bow is outside? I felt it inside. Inside the trapecium or triangle. Left hand forward position?

Before aiming I would ask those, who are interested, to try without aiming. It is very interesting.
Just imagine, you've just invented a bow. Nobody knows how to use it. And ready to mock it. But you have some crazy ideas and start to implement them.
This I call Historical Reconstruction.

About index finger. When it is curled around the grip - Kani calls it "peasant grip, or something like this. Just like shovel handle. Further he discusses it no more.
When it is curled behind the grip - some variants exist. Sensless let's not try. If it is far from arrowhead - it is useless. If it makes V-form with middle finger - it makes a shelf and senses arrowhead - useful. When it is stretched forward, gliding the shaft softly touching it from above - it is extremely useful. Because it has one more application. Most useful of all. Will not mark it now. Maybe someone will test and find out. Why to deprive people of reinventions?
And the bow grip diameter has nothing to do with all above. My understanding - bow grip diameter is the function of the palm size. The rest is the same.

If fingers on the string are placed diagonally - they fix the shaft nock - this is also very important, especially if the notch is too wide and shallow.

You seem to have a problem with the philosophical problem of nomenclature. In calling something the Sasanid draw, Morse or anyone else that uses the term is assigning a label for the convenience of discussion so that people engaging in discourse can use a short hand which does not require a repeated full description of the object being discussed. It have had a racial or cultural context in the nineteenth century when it was coined, but that is hard relevant in the twenty first.

Regarding your comments on the Mediterranean release, another of Morse's coinings, it did have a distribution around the Mediterranean Sea. It was definitely used elsewhere, but it was the most common release in the area of Western and Northern Europe. In your points you have made some general statements that are not necessarily agreed upon by the majority of researchers in the history of archery.

• 1. The Assyrians in nearly all of the reliefs that show them from behind shooting to the left are using a form of the Mediterranean Release. It is clear that there was variation in their methods of holding the string and there is considerable discussion about what is meant when they are shown shooting to the right from the front, but the extreme stylisations of the hand and arm positions are difficult to decipher.
  2. The stylisation of the Egyptian monuments and the fact that they reused standardised images over three thousand years makes interpretation very difficult. However, no thumb rings or thumb tabs have been excavated from any Ancient Egyptian tombs. Bracers have been and they are shown on the art as well. Bracers serve two functions, to keep the sleeves of the archer out of the way of the string and to protect the arm from the blow of the string. Egyptian archers are rarely shown with sleeves, so bracers probably were for protection from the string, a problem with the Mediterranean Release.
  3. Of the people you listed here, Greeks, Romans, Carthaginians, Etruscans, and the Balkan Slavs, from Roman and Greek writings used the Mediterranean release. There are ivory carvings showing the Parthians using a three finger Mediterranean draw. Saracen is an alternate name for the Arabs who eventually adopted the thumb draw, but those Assyrian reliefs you mention show the early Arabs using a finger release in the time of Assurbanipal.

The definition of the inside and outside of the bow is the one used by Taybugha in Saracen Archery. He thought that aiming on the right side of the bow was looking between the bow limb and the string and so was inside. As a result the left side of the bow was the outside.

The bow grip size I was referring to is the width where the arrow passes which can be smaller than the place where the bow is held. 20 mm is the width at this point on small Turkish bows. I have crab bows with 19-20 mm widths at this point. This means a deflection of the arrow of about 10 mm from the plane of the string. Actually you should take into account the diameter of the arrows. For an 8 mm arrow with a 20 mm wide grip, the deflection would be 14 mm measuring from the centre of the grip to the centre of the arrow. To keep this deflection small, the Koreans built bows with limbs that were not straight so that the string was not on the centreline of the grip.

I have analyzed the plates and a lot of other evidence, and my conclusion is as follows:

My forthright opinion is that the Sassanid release is NOT a fingers based release. This was an idea put forth by ADH Bivar (RIP) in the 1970's, and it needs to follow him into the grave.

If we take the plates at face value, and assume that they are actually representing a genuine technique, then the Sassanid release is a THUMB release. Index finger on top of arrow, thumb wrapped around string, middle finger locked over thumb. Very similar to some varieties of Chinese release.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szEZocZySmU