Parallel Horn Strips?
As it is not always easy to get horn that is of sufficient width and sufficient side-to-side straightness to properly cover the intended limb dimensions, I was wondering if any horn bows were ever constructed with two parallel horn strips carefully fitted and glued together in a straight centerline seam to effectively form a single strip?
Has anyone other there attempted such construction?
It would strike me that if it is done very carefully, the bending stresses should be shared equally by both halves of this 'composite' horn strip. Nor would it appear that such a strip would be any more or any less prone to delamination.
I'd appreciate any comments.
Has anyone other there attempted such construction?
It would strike me that if it is done very carefully, the bending stresses should be shared equally by both halves of this 'composite' horn strip. Nor would it appear that such a strip would be any more or any less prone to delamination.
I'd appreciate any comments.
Very many bows have been made that way. I would venture to say that it is the standard way for Indo Persian bows to be made and the number of strips is usually far greater than 2. The Khotan bow was also composed of multiple strips.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=kho ... edIndex=33
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=kho ... edIndex=33
Pat Menzies -
Thanks much for the information. That's very reassuring to know, as I now feel that I would have half a chance in going with two joined parallel strips of horn, that taken together will properly cover the limb completely. I don't absolutely have to do this, but if I go with the two best single strips I have, some compromises will have to be made in terms or coverage and core width. Either way, it will be a little tricky to get this right.
It seems to me that if I go the route using two joined strips, then the best way to do it would be to first straighten out both strips as best I can, very carefully join their edges together (probably first clamping both to a flat surface to make sure the edges fully line up with each other) to form a single strip, and then attach that to the core in the normal fashion. Or is there some better way to do it?
I haven't decided yet, but have traced paper templates of the thee pieces of my usable horn strips to see what might or might not work. I'm a little tentative about this, as it wouldn't be all that hard to ruin all three strips.
Thanks much for the information. That's very reassuring to know, as I now feel that I would have half a chance in going with two joined parallel strips of horn, that taken together will properly cover the limb completely. I don't absolutely have to do this, but if I go with the two best single strips I have, some compromises will have to be made in terms or coverage and core width. Either way, it will be a little tricky to get this right.
It seems to me that if I go the route using two joined strips, then the best way to do it would be to first straighten out both strips as best I can, very carefully join their edges together (probably first clamping both to a flat surface to make sure the edges fully line up with each other) to form a single strip, and then attach that to the core in the normal fashion. Or is there some better way to do it?
I haven't decided yet, but have traced paper templates of the thee pieces of my usable horn strips to see what might or might not work. I'm a little tentative about this, as it wouldn't be all that hard to ruin all three strips.
Yes
Warm them up in water and clamp down, than could draw the straight line on and will see how wide is the usefull staright part of them.
Only after this start to make the core for the size of your horn plates.
Should use here on the front page the contain guide, there is some more from niya and khotan bows. :wink:
Warm them up in water and clamp down, than could draw the straight line on and will see how wide is the usefull staright part of them.
Only after this start to make the core for the size of your horn plates.
Should use here on the front page the contain guide, there is some more from niya and khotan bows. :wink:
Zolt?n -
K?sz?nj?k!
I have already made the core. The bending section is approx. 32 cm long. The width at the start is 40 mm and tapers down to 36 mm at the eye of the ear. My best piece of horn (when trimmed on the edges to make perfectly straight) is only 36 mm at the start and tapers down to 28 mm at the eye of ear. I have plenty of thickness on both the core and horn, so that is not a problem, as they will both have to be thinned down once the horn is attached. My original piece of horn (the only usable strip I could get out of the original pair I had previously acquired) is even a bit narrower.
So, if I want to use those two strips, I will have to trim the core down to something less than 36 cm by 28 cm, which is probably getting a little narrow for a Magyar bow. Is it not?
While I rather not go through the trouble of making two-piece horn strips, I am becoming more convinced that I may not have any choice if I want the bow to be right. Would you agree?
K?sz?nj?k!
I have already made the core. The bending section is approx. 32 cm long. The width at the start is 40 mm and tapers down to 36 mm at the eye of the ear. My best piece of horn (when trimmed on the edges to make perfectly straight) is only 36 mm at the start and tapers down to 28 mm at the eye of ear. I have plenty of thickness on both the core and horn, so that is not a problem, as they will both have to be thinned down once the horn is attached. My original piece of horn (the only usable strip I could get out of the original pair I had previously acquired) is even a bit narrower.
So, if I want to use those two strips, I will have to trim the core down to something less than 36 cm by 28 cm, which is probably getting a little narrow for a Magyar bow. Is it not?
While I rather not go through the trouble of making two-piece horn strips, I am becoming more convinced that I may not have any choice if I want the bow to be right. Would you agree?
Bit more datas from the core plase.
Could you make pics?
The horn strips have to be min 42cm long 45 ok. (if the core is 90cm) and as wide as could make, 3.4cm is enough at the middle of the sal and 2.8 at the eye of the ear and 2.0 at the end of the joint.
Could you make pics?
The horn strips have to be min 42cm long 45 ok. (if the core is 90cm) and as wide as could make, 3.4cm is enough at the middle of the sal and 2.8 at the eye of the ear and 2.0 at the end of the joint.
Zolt?n -
I'd love to post some photos but while I used to do a lot of photography, I never got around to getting a digital camera. (I live in the Stone Age.) However, I'll provide some further description of the core and horn:
The core consists of two hard maple limbs joined to a tapered handle section that fades into the sal. The distance from the very end of the sal to the center of the handle is 49.5 cm. The limbs each slant upward at 10 degrees to the horizontal.
The bending section, from beginning of fade to the eye of the ear, is about 32 cm. The ear is joined to the sal with a V-splice that is 9 cm long. The ear makes a 30-degree angle with the sal, to thus give an overall angle of 40 degrees. The ears are made of osage orange, with a nicely curved grain.
The bending section is 40 mm wide tapering down to 36 mm at the eye of the V-splce.
The core is currently about 8 mm thick at the beginning of the bending section and 6.5 mm thick at the eye of the ear.
The horn strips are 43 cm long and can be positioned such that they will overlap the V-splice by roughly 6 -7 cm, and the fade of the handle by the same amount.
Right now, the unfinished horn strips are no less than 5 mm thick at the thinnest part and up to 9 mm thick at the thickest. I just started working on these.
This bow is to be of moderate draw weight and doesn't have to be anymore than around 60 pounds.
So, the question is this: Will I be better off making the core narrower to fit the horn strips which will probably turn out to be no more than 35 mm wide tapering to around maybe 25 mm wide at the eye of the ear; or go through the extra effort (and risk of ruining three horn strips) to make joined horn strips that will cover the entire surface of the core at its present dimensions?
I'd love to post some photos but while I used to do a lot of photography, I never got around to getting a digital camera. (I live in the Stone Age.) However, I'll provide some further description of the core and horn:
The core consists of two hard maple limbs joined to a tapered handle section that fades into the sal. The distance from the very end of the sal to the center of the handle is 49.5 cm. The limbs each slant upward at 10 degrees to the horizontal.
The bending section, from beginning of fade to the eye of the ear, is about 32 cm. The ear is joined to the sal with a V-splice that is 9 cm long. The ear makes a 30-degree angle with the sal, to thus give an overall angle of 40 degrees. The ears are made of osage orange, with a nicely curved grain.
The bending section is 40 mm wide tapering down to 36 mm at the eye of the V-splce.
The core is currently about 8 mm thick at the beginning of the bending section and 6.5 mm thick at the eye of the ear.
The horn strips are 43 cm long and can be positioned such that they will overlap the V-splice by roughly 6 -7 cm, and the fade of the handle by the same amount.
Right now, the unfinished horn strips are no less than 5 mm thick at the thinnest part and up to 9 mm thick at the thickest. I just started working on these.
This bow is to be of moderate draw weight and doesn't have to be anymore than around 60 pounds.
So, the question is this: Will I be better off making the core narrower to fit the horn strips which will probably turn out to be no more than 35 mm wide tapering to around maybe 25 mm wide at the eye of the ear; or go through the extra effort (and risk of ruining three horn strips) to make joined horn strips that will cover the entire surface of the core at its present dimensions?
Edmund; what you describe was a common technique in antiquity.
Personally I think 35 mm is plenty wide enough and of course 1 piece of horn will be far easier to work with, i'm not saying that 2 strips won't work it will but you'll have to be very precise.
Also your horn is very thick for a 60lb bow, I would probably make it 5mm over the full length before glue-up. It will obviously be more flexible when heated making gluing easier.
Also your horn is very thick for a 60lb bow, I would probably make it 5mm over the full length before glue-up. It will obviously be more flexible when heated making gluing easier.
I think the core a bit long for this bow type. The gripp and ear angle is good. Next time don't trim the core before horn glue up. Now draw up the center line precisely on the belly and the back. Hold the horn plates on the middle whan glued and pressed with clamps. The original rope method needs thicker core.
Will need a fitting form to clamp down the core and horn.
Best if buy Adam,s book. It is from turkis bows but most of the methods the same on horn bows.
We haven' t found longer quiver than 86 cm yet. So now we calculate with that the fitted arrows was no longer than 82 cm. This means about 30 or less drawlengt on the original ones.
Your core think enough for a 34 draw like on late chinese bows.
Other wise this is just for historical replication. :)
Will need a fitting form to clamp down the core and horn.
Best if buy Adam,s book. It is from turkis bows but most of the methods the same on horn bows.
We haven' t found longer quiver than 86 cm yet. So now we calculate with that the fitted arrows was no longer than 82 cm. This means about 30 or less drawlengt on the original ones.
Your core think enough for a 34 draw like on late chinese bows.
Other wise this is just for historical replication. :)
Thanks all for the advice -
It's reassuring to hear that I can probably get away with a core width of 35 mm, as I was not terribly anxious to embark on a very tedious effort to join two strips together to make one wider strip.
Yes, the horn is a lot thicker than it needs to be right now, but I haven't thinned it down yet.
I do have Adam's book, and it's been most helpful, though it doesn't get into the subject of multiple horn strips.
I made a grooving tool and will start grooving the core and horn pretty soon.
It's reassuring to hear that I can probably get away with a core width of 35 mm, as I was not terribly anxious to embark on a very tedious effort to join two strips together to make one wider strip.
Yes, the horn is a lot thicker than it needs to be right now, but I haven't thinned it down yet.
I do have Adam's book, and it's been most helpful, though it doesn't get into the subject of multiple horn strips.
I made a grooving tool and will start grooving the core and horn pretty soon.
Edmund,
Persian bows were often made with multiple horn strips. The technique was to glue one strip on at a time and not to make a wider strip by gluing the horn pieces together first. Each narrower strip is easier to bend and attach to the core. The lateral joining faces have to be straight but they are filled with glue so the precision is not critical. Fitting multiple strips over a curved core is a little easier than making perfect male and female curves. I was told by someone who had done it that the strips usually end up with tapered sides in that case. Final adjustments can be made on the bow after the first strip is in place.
Persian texts suggest two, three or four strips per limb. Most of the crab bows had a single narrow strip about half the width of the limb. Sinew on the belly held everything in place. The horn was higher than the rest of the belly so it took most of the compression.
Persian bows were often made with multiple horn strips. The technique was to glue one strip on at a time and not to make a wider strip by gluing the horn pieces together first. Each narrower strip is easier to bend and attach to the core. The lateral joining faces have to be straight but they are filled with glue so the precision is not critical. Fitting multiple strips over a curved core is a little easier than making perfect male and female curves. I was told by someone who had done it that the strips usually end up with tapered sides in that case. Final adjustments can be made on the bow after the first strip is in place.
Persian texts suggest two, three or four strips per limb. Most of the crab bows had a single narrow strip about half the width of the limb. Sinew on the belly held everything in place. The horn was higher than the rest of the belly so it took most of the compression.