question and observations on using old horns
Hello,
I am wondering if horn degrades over time? I have made 13 native American style bighorn sheep horn and sinew bows to this date and am working on more. It is hard to find bighorn sets. All new horns have a medal plug in the bending portion of the horn making them useless for a bow. Most of the horns I find are quite old. I will try and post a picture of a bow I made with a set of horns from a desert bighorn killed in the 1940s. It is 37" tip to tip, a little under 36" nock to nock and has a draw of 55 pounds at 20.5 inches. I have drawn this bow to 22 inches, but shoot it at 20.5 now for longevity. I have a set of horns taken in 1917 that I may try out.
I have had 3 out of these 13 break after shooting for a bit. These were drawn further. For example 35 inch bow was drawn 22 inches for a couple months. It developed a severe bend in one limb by the handle and broke soon after.
Could I get more bend with newer horns?
I will post some of these bows at a later time. I know this is a Asian archery site. Native Americans came from Siberia and some argue that the some of the sinew backed and perhaps horn bow technology came by sea from Asia.
I often refer to Adam K's book for information and study this site. Thanks for your help.
I am wondering if horn degrades over time? I have made 13 native American style bighorn sheep horn and sinew bows to this date and am working on more. It is hard to find bighorn sets. All new horns have a medal plug in the bending portion of the horn making them useless for a bow. Most of the horns I find are quite old. I will try and post a picture of a bow I made with a set of horns from a desert bighorn killed in the 1940s. It is 37" tip to tip, a little under 36" nock to nock and has a draw of 55 pounds at 20.5 inches. I have drawn this bow to 22 inches, but shoot it at 20.5 now for longevity. I have a set of horns taken in 1917 that I may try out.
I have had 3 out of these 13 break after shooting for a bit. These were drawn further. For example 35 inch bow was drawn 22 inches for a couple months. It developed a severe bend in one limb by the handle and broke soon after.
Could I get more bend with newer horns?
I will post some of these bows at a later time. I know this is a Asian archery site. Native Americans came from Siberia and some argue that the some of the sinew backed and perhaps horn bow technology came by sea from Asia.
I often refer to Adam K's book for information and study this site. Thanks for your help.
Bow drawn
relaxed
Nice work! I love short, short-draw bows! Asian/Native American... pretty much the same technology, especially in the horn/sinew department. We sure don't mind. IIRC there have been discussions of Eskimo/Aleut/Siberian bows here as well. I'm sure folks here would appreciate seeing any build-along photos you care to share.
I don't have any experience with horn, new or old. But common sense says that horn, once off the critter, will start to degrade to some degree or another. Otherwise some of us would be shooting recovered archaeological grave goods! I suspect that the ambient humidity in which the horns are kept greatly influences the rate of degradation -- higher = slower -- as the keratin/protein covering of the horn has a relatively high moisture content, IIRC.
On the other hand, if your horn shaping techniques are like others described here, you are soaking the horn to make it more pliable before shaping etc. It might make sense to explore a variety of "baths" to see if any give a markedly better moisturization. I'm thinking light oils or liquids other than the water or milk others use.
I don't have any experience with horn, new or old. But common sense says that horn, once off the critter, will start to degrade to some degree or another. Otherwise some of us would be shooting recovered archaeological grave goods! I suspect that the ambient humidity in which the horns are kept greatly influences the rate of degradation -- higher = slower -- as the keratin/protein covering of the horn has a relatively high moisture content, IIRC.
On the other hand, if your horn shaping techniques are like others described here, you are soaking the horn to make it more pliable before shaping etc. It might make sense to explore a variety of "baths" to see if any give a markedly better moisturization. I'm thinking light oils or liquids other than the water or milk others use.
Thank you Ken. You got me thinking of rehydration.....
Use it.
Two excellent info sources are in Primitive Archer magazine, you have probably read it, Jay Redhawk has an article on Sheephorn bows with an interview, and his and Chucks emails are at the end of the article, along with several book titles on the subject, a lot of info there. He points out in the article of several hundreds of year old bows being strung and pulled. Horn doesnt degrade as fast as wood. Your 40s era sheep horn is young.
This is for sure a reasonable place to post re sheephorn bows, they have been made in Asia also.
Btw, your bow pictured is a beautiful bow, very nice !
Two excellent info sources are in Primitive Archer magazine, you have probably read it, Jay Redhawk has an article on Sheephorn bows with an interview, and his and Chucks emails are at the end of the article, along with several book titles on the subject, a lot of info there. He points out in the article of several hundreds of year old bows being strung and pulled. Horn doesnt degrade as fast as wood. Your 40s era sheep horn is young.
This is for sure a reasonable place to post re sheephorn bows, they have been made in Asia also.
Btw, your bow pictured is a beautiful bow, very nice !
Thanks Jake. I am Chuck Loeffler by the way. i figured if anyone knew the science behind keratin degradation it would be here
Hi Chuck
You are THE expert on this here. All I have is the writings in the books that you and Jay posted in the PA article.
I hope that you can find some academic references here, for practical information it lies with you.
There are several guys here who do have some very old writings, I hope that they chime in.
You are THE expert on this here. All I have is the writings in the books that you and Jay posted in the PA article.
I hope that you can find some academic references here, for practical information it lies with you.
There are several guys here who do have some very old writings, I hope that they chime in.
interesting question. very nice bow !
authorities recommend horn from not too young and not too old animals, probably because its the optimum between flexible and stiff. original manuscripts mention soaking in water. sunlight will degrade keratin for sure, (so we use the backstrips). for time and dehydration alone I dont know.
:wink:
authorities recommend horn from not too young and not too old animals, probably because its the optimum between flexible and stiff. original manuscripts mention soaking in water. sunlight will degrade keratin for sure, (so we use the backstrips). for time and dehydration alone I dont know.
:wink:
Thanks Uli. Bighorn sheep horns are quite thick. Older ones or ones left in the elements have dry cracked scales on the outside. But if you keep scraping away at the surface you get down to new looking horn.