Making fish bladder glue in tropical region

manbe your bladders has more salt before drying or air has more salt, it need very low temp geling, you can Frozen the glue, water is ice, glue is glue only a few water

my sinew, bladder, hide glue can gell at your temp, but slowly, if add salt to glue , it is best geling in icebox in low temp

jiao wrote:

manbe your bladders has more salt before drying or air has more salt, it need very low temp geling, you can Frozen the glue, water is ice, glue is glue only a few water

my sinew, bladder, hide glue can gell at your temp, but slowly, if add salt to glue , it is best geling in icebox in low temp

hi jiao, thanks for the reply.. the bladder isn't salted & I'm using distillation water for processing..

so its ok if I store it freeze?

I'm using the bladder because its cheaper than if I use sinew, but if I don't success making it.. I might reconsider to use sinew+hide combination instead (hide is gelled normally in my room temp but not try sinew yet)..

It sounds like it is fine. I have the opposite problem.....everything gels too fast here!
Yes it's fine to freeze it for later use. You can mix it with faster gelling glue if you need to change the properties when it comes to using it.

mikekeswick wrote:

It sounds like it is fine. I have the opposite problem.....everything gels too fast here!
Yes it's fine to freeze it for later use. You can mix it with faster gelling glue if you need to change the properties when it comes to using it.

thanks for your reply mikekeswick..

about freezing the glue, how long can it last? is it ok if it through some freeze-thaw cycle? because my freezer need to be de-frosted once in a couple of month..

Depending on the species that the bladder is from, it will start to melt at 21°C or even lower (Cod for example). Adding hideglue raises the meltingpoint.

+28°C is way too hot for bladder glue to gel properly or at all. Hideglue is better suited at that temperature. It's meltingpoint is at 26°C. Kremer Pigmente has a datasheet on their website somewhere.

Additionally, hot temperature doesn't only affect gel strenght, but can also make it hard to have the sinew layer dry before it starts to rot.

Bj?rn Sofeit wrote:

Depending on the species that the bladder is from, it will start to melt at 21°C or even lower (Cod for example). Adding hideglue raises the meltingpoint.

+28°C is way too hot for bladder glue to gel properly or at all. Hideglue is better suited at that temperature. It's meltingpoint is at 26°C. Kremer Pigmente has a datasheet on their website somewhere.

Additionally, hot temperature doesn't only affect gel strenght, but can also make it hard to have the sinew layer dry before it starts to rot.

The fish is tropical (quite common in Indonesia), but I'm not sure about the species..
21C is for sure rarely happened in my place, even in the most cold weather.. :)

OK, I'll try the freezing method then.. thanks alot for your help guys.. :D

Oh btw, I saw that you simmered at 60-70°C. That is also a problem. Protein starts to denaturate at around 56°C, so going over that for prolonged time will decay the capabilities of the glue. It will not gel properly.

Try to make another batch. Soak the bladders 24h, mash them in the mortar and then simmer at 50°C. Test how good the glue is.

Bj?rn Sofeit wrote:

Oh btw, I saw that you simmered at 60-70°C. That is also a problem. Protein starts to denaturate at around 56°C, so going over that for prolonged time will decay the capabilities of the glue. It will not gel properly.

Try to make another batch. Soak the bladders 24h, mash them in the mortar and then simmer at 50°C. Test how good the glue is.

OK, I can do that.. thanks for the info..

Indonesia?simmered at 60-70°C!!!!!!!!!!! i am retherv would rather live in 0-40°C, at 35°C sunshine the sand very hot , i got a small new die fish croakers bladders , it dissolve very fast i can not find it at beach

the fish is not so big but has big bladders, how cheep?

jiao wrote:

Indonesia?simmered at 60-70°C!!!!!!!!!!! i am retherv would rather live in 0-40°C, at 35°C sunshine the sand very hot , i got a small new die fish croakers bladders , it dissolve very fast i can not find it at beach

the fish is not so big but has big bladders, how cheep?

hi jiao.. yes 60-70°C :oops:, but.. big thanks to you guys! I adjust and correct my process according to your suggestions and voila! I got my glue..

- I pound the bladder to a good dough after put them 24hour in water (I remove the excess water leaved only the already soft bladder)
- lower the temp when simmering to 50C
- blended the solution after 4hours simmered.. then continue simmering for about 8hours..
- strained the thick milky solution, put it into the fridge.. in about 30minutes the solution start gelling..
- I wait until midnight (so the room temp is rather cold), then cut the gel in strips and dry it with fan..
- every time I notice they're start to melt, I put back into the fridge.. repeat the method till outer surface of the gel strips is quite dry (so it work like capsule)..
- after that, I manage to dry them in about 2-3 days (final drying is 4 hours under the sun)

the final glue is rather transparent, but it shrunk quite a lot from its gelled state (I think because the water content is too high when gelled)..
I got 35 grams dried glue from 40grams bladder..

the bladder is look big because it been cut to open up, the price is about US$ 4 per 100grams with current currencies...

Looks good. The yield is also good. Try how well it glues 2 pieces of wood, but use a low % solution on the pieces before you glue them up

Bj?rn Sofeit wrote:

Looks good. The yield is also good. Try how well it glues 2 pieces of wood, but use a low % solution on the pieces before you glue them up

OK Bj?rn, I'll test it as soon as I got time.. btw, thanks a lot for the advice.. :D

another question Bj?rn.. I've notice in your thread that your gelled glue is already transparent, this did'nt happen on mine.. its always milky white and become transparent only when dry completely.. is it just because different source of the bladder?

Yes. It's sturgeon. I made glue from the small yellow croaker, and it is darker than the sturgeon glue.

Hi! Now you have a fish bladder glue, but how will you use it?. It should gel when you use it too! Mix it with hide glue! It can hold if it's not gelling, but better if it gels before drying.
(If I were you I would use only hide glue)

robinhoodfromhun wrote:

Hi! Now you have a fish bladder glue, but how will you use it?. It should gel when you use it too! Mix it with hide glue! It can hold if it's not gelling, but better if it gels before drying.
(If I were you I would use only hide glue)

hi robin :) , yes I plan to use it with hide or might even replace it completely with sinew glue.. is it OK if I use cow or sheep sinew for glue? I'm already got water buffalo rear leg sinew, unfortunately it didn't come economical enough to use as a glue..

Hi! I have used cow sinew for a glue. That was ok. Sheep should be ok too.
Dry it first and remove the fat before cooking!
(I would change my user name but there is no poissibiliti :) )


Sándor

my trouble is some thing add to glue or made glue as more than 70-100C, the big molecule in glue will be concretion like the plastic , some times the fine made glue can not dissolve by times and temp :lol: