Problems whith hide glue
I've just tried to use some hide glue to learn how to use it but it became very brittle when dried for only a day.
I can't understand what the problem could be. I could have overheated it or used it to thick but only slightly. Is it that critical to have the correct temperature and viscosity or will it feel more elastic when gluing horn and sinew?[/i]
I can't understand what the problem could be. I could have overheated it or used it to thick but only slightly. Is it that critical to have the correct temperature and viscosity or will it feel more elastic when gluing horn and sinew?[/i]
Hi Simon,
Did you use some method to dry your glue? A day is a very short time for glue to dry. It may be too dry. If you dry it below about 10% moisture content it becomes brittle regardless of glue quality.
Did you use some method to dry your glue? A day is a very short time for glue to dry. It may be too dry. If you dry it below about 10% moisture content it becomes brittle regardless of glue quality.
hi Simon,as Dale mentioned,there could be many reasons for problems with hideglue.But if you have the necessary knowledge and your first experiences it works very well.First of all:you need time and warmth and a pure hideglue without any artificial ingredients.I mix 1 part of hideglue with 0.75 part of water and let it be overnight.The next day I heat this mixture very,very slowly by stirring it all the time with a piece of horn or bone.Max.temperature is 65Celsius.It is ready when you can?t see any grain of the glue and when it is like a thick soup,maybe you have to add a bit of water(warmed up).The parts you want to glue together should be also warmed up a bit.Keep care that all the parts you want to glue are really clean and that they fit quite well.I don?t use strong clamps,I even prefer wrappings,cause with a strong clamp you can make the hideglue squeezing out.
Now it is time to wait.It depends what you have glued together:sinewbacking-1-6 month,horn with bamboo or wood-10days,sinewwrappings(maybe for a fletching or an arrowhead-1 or 2 days.......
P.S. I wash the parts that should be glued with a mix a 1 part charcoal and 10 parts of water to make sure that they free of fat or oil
Now it is time to wait.It depends what you have glued together:sinewbacking-1-6 month,horn with bamboo or wood-10days,sinewwrappings(maybe for a fletching or an arrowhead-1 or 2 days.......
P.S. I wash the parts that should be glued with a mix a 1 part charcoal and 10 parts of water to make sure that they free of fat or oil
Redhawk, that was about the way I did it, but I tried again exactly as you said and, if it matters, I heated the glue extremely slowly(40 min) from 20-60'C and experimented some with different water amounts, but it did'nt make much difference.
So I asked the company who sold me the glue; they claimed it was pure and also told me that hide glue should actually be quite brittle and that a sinewbacked bow (not hornbow in this case) would make some cracking noise the first times it is bent. Is this true?
I made a test of the glue quality I read about which was to let the glue absorb as much water as possible. Five times the weight or more is exellent it said, and my glue absorbed ten times the weight, so I suppose my glue is ok.
Maybe the problem only is my assumption of how the consistency of dried hide glue should be. I thought it would feel somewhat like rawhide or plastic, and maybe my judgement of the brittleness is false; like if I take a thin flake of dried glue and bend it, it would in my case bend a little and then crack or shatter.
Are my glue and glue preparation skills allright after all? Should the sinewing crack a little when bent? Does it not have the same consistency as what it is made of, rawhide?
So I asked the company who sold me the glue; they claimed it was pure and also told me that hide glue should actually be quite brittle and that a sinewbacked bow (not hornbow in this case) would make some cracking noise the first times it is bent. Is this true?
I made a test of the glue quality I read about which was to let the glue absorb as much water as possible. Five times the weight or more is exellent it said, and my glue absorbed ten times the weight, so I suppose my glue is ok.
Maybe the problem only is my assumption of how the consistency of dried hide glue should be. I thought it would feel somewhat like rawhide or plastic, and maybe my judgement of the brittleness is false; like if I take a thin flake of dried glue and bend it, it would in my case bend a little and then crack or shatter.
Are my glue and glue preparation skills allright after all? Should the sinewing crack a little when bent? Does it not have the same consistency as what it is made of, rawhide?
Simon, I have noticed that my hide glue (Knox Gelatin) is very brittle when it has dried on the inside of the glue pot. It becomes flaky and easy to break.
I don't know that it is supposed to be Very brittle, but it is definitely somewhat brittle.
It is also true that when you use too much glue on a sinew backing for a wood bow, that it can make cracking sounds when first drawn.
Your temperature sounds good for making hide glue. Just make sure to saturate the dry glue with water before heating it.
Other than that, you should do a test to see how strong the glue can hold 2 pieces of wood together. It is described in TTBB V.1.
I hope I helped.
I don't know that it is supposed to be Very brittle, but it is definitely somewhat brittle.
It is also true that when you use too much glue on a sinew backing for a wood bow, that it can make cracking sounds when first drawn.
Your temperature sounds good for making hide glue. Just make sure to saturate the dry glue with water before heating it.
Other than that, you should do a test to see how strong the glue can hold 2 pieces of wood together. It is described in TTBB V.1.
I hope I helped.
I think that a cracking sound from a newly-made sinew-backed bow should be normal. I would expect to draw back only about 28" the first few times, then gradually draw further over around 100 shots to your intended anchor point. Ju Yuan Hao and Casba Grozer have both suggested this method.
Simon,there are different qualities of hideglue.The best one I can get is made from hides of little and young animals.If I do the sinew-backing alright there is no cracking at all.But the time before I?ve found this hide-glue I?ve had these terrible cracking times.
Are you really sure that your glue is hide-glue?Very often even dealers don?t know the difference between bones-glue and hide-glue.Bones-glue cracks terrible and breaks under the tension of a drawn bow.
Are you really sure that your glue is hide-glue?Very often even dealers don?t know the difference between bones-glue and hide-glue.Bones-glue cracks terrible and breaks under the tension of a drawn bow.
Thanks for your help everybody!
I asked the company who sold it and they said it was pure good quality hide glue and it is what they use for their bowbackings, so I think it's allright, I just did'nt know how hide glue would be.
I've not yet tried to glue any sinew but it works excellent with other things, at least it's very strong.
I asked the company who sold it and they said it was pure good quality hide glue and it is what they use for their bowbackings, so I think it's allright, I just did'nt know how hide glue would be.
I've not yet tried to glue any sinew but it works excellent with other things, at least it's very strong.
Redhawk.
You mentioned hideglue from very young animals being superior.
What is your source for this glue, or do you produce it yourself?
Another question: What about the use of rabbit glues?
You mentioned hideglue from very young animals being superior.
What is your source for this glue, or do you produce it yourself?
Another question: What about the use of rabbit glues?
hello Alam,
with little animals I don?t mean young animals.Glue from rabbits,squirrels...gives better quality.
I know how to cook my glues by myself,but I need to much and I buy it from www.kremer-pigmente.com.They have different qualities,you have to ask for their best hideglue for bowmaking.
with little animals I don?t mean young animals.Glue from rabbits,squirrels...gives better quality.
I know how to cook my glues by myself,but I need to much and I buy it from www.kremer-pigmente.com.They have different qualities,you have to ask for their best hideglue for bowmaking.
Redhawk
We all seem to be glued to this forum in particular.........
Thanks for the link. I already bought some stuff from Kremer pigmente.
Greetings & Salaam
We all seem to be glued to this forum in particular.........
Thanks for the link. I already bought some stuff from Kremer pigmente.
Greetings & Salaam