Yumi question
Ok. I'm not asking construction question, as i know the basic formula. My question is this: The term yumi in and of itself in essence refers to the Japanese word for bow in it's most basic sense, correct?
2nd question is: In the beginning traditional yumis were not made in the extreme lengths they have evolved too up into the present, correct.?
I am having difficulty with someone on another site who claims he is a yumi professional and that my shorter version pisses him off because it is wrong to claim it as such. Even though in the post i revered to my bow as a "yumi-Variation". It was made with bamboo-mulberry-hide-glue-hemp-twine-and leather. But is only 65"
2nd question is: In the beginning traditional yumis were not made in the extreme lengths they have evolved too up into the present, correct.?
I am having difficulty with someone on another site who claims he is a yumi professional and that my shorter version pisses him off because it is wrong to claim it as such. Even though in the post i revered to my bow as a "yumi-Variation". It was made with bamboo-mulberry-hide-glue-hemp-twine-and leather. But is only 65"
My understanding is that the word 'yumi' refers to that type of bow and also to a japanese style of arch, such as in architecture.
You do not have to be an expert to see from artwork that modern Kyudo bows are larger and shaped different than more ancient versions.
It is also true that some non-Japanese persons who have gone native become somewhat rabid in their protectionism of Japanese traditions. Now Japanese have an apprenticeship program for bowmakers and the first occasion for one to be singled out for accomplishment in the field is the tenth year of crafting. Most of their crafts are like that. So to be an expert, or more correctly a master Yumi maker, would imply a completed apprenticeship.
My experience with Japanese people is that they are very generous with their culture and are most complimented by attempts to imitate their traditions. When you do your best, you don't have to worry about detractors. -j-
You do not have to be an expert to see from artwork that modern Kyudo bows are larger and shaped different than more ancient versions.
It is also true that some non-Japanese persons who have gone native become somewhat rabid in their protectionism of Japanese traditions. Now Japanese have an apprenticeship program for bowmakers and the first occasion for one to be singled out for accomplishment in the field is the tenth year of crafting. Most of their crafts are like that. So to be an expert, or more correctly a master Yumi maker, would imply a completed apprenticeship.
My experience with Japanese people is that they are very generous with their culture and are most complimented by attempts to imitate their traditions. When you do your best, you don't have to worry about detractors. -j-
thankyou for the reassurance Jack. Acctually i handled this guy pretty well without loosing my cool, but i did have to walk away and go outdoors for a spell before i responded.
You can find something about yumi making here:
http://www.dick.biz/isroot/dick/Content ... kyudo.html
http://www.dick.biz/isroot/dick/Content ... kyudo.html
This is also Kanjiro Shibata Sensi, probably the father-in-law of the younger one at the german school. Having inherited the company from the old master, the young master takes the name of the older, or a variation on that name. Taken at Ft.Dodge, he is in his early 80s.
I have three yumis here, one from the 1960s, one from 1844 and one from about 1790. The are all the same length to within a centimtre or so.
I have some books (1680s) about Japanese archery games with assymetric bows that are much smaller than modern yumis. Otherwise they are almost identical except that there is a cylindrical build-out at the grip, and some indication that they may have been self-bows made of willow.
I suspect that to get performance required for warfare or hunting, given the materials and the construction, yumis would need to be somewhere around the lengths that we see today. But there could be variations for other types of use.
S.
I have some books (1680s) about Japanese archery games with assymetric bows that are much smaller than modern yumis. Otherwise they are almost identical except that there is a cylindrical build-out at the grip, and some indication that they may have been self-bows made of willow.
I suspect that to get performance required for warfare or hunting, given the materials and the construction, yumis would need to be somewhere around the lengths that we see today. But there could be variations for other types of use.
S.
I had an old wakazashi Japanese sword ( a kind of going to social events sword) which I wanted to sell so I took it to a known dealer and he said that he did not want it because it was a" new" sword. I told him that there was an inscription inside the broken scabbard that indicated about 1810 AD. No, he said the sword was from the early 1600s and that swords from after 1300 were considered "new" swords.
On the basis of this appraisal, it sold well.
My point is that these bows go back a long time, changed in style, size and shape. -j-
On the basis of this appraisal, it sold well.
My point is that these bows go back a long time, changed in style, size and shape. -j-
This has been immencely illuminateing. Thankyou everyone. I am presently constructing one of the 'proper" length and design, useing 2 strips of mulberry and three side-by-side thin bamboo, snadwitched between bamboo-belly-and-back. I have always wanted to try my hand at one of these. I am most certain it will not hold a candle to one made by a master, but it is a challenging and exciteing process none the less.
Thanks again guys.
Thimo
Ps. this is the one i refered too as a variation. It is solide mulberry core with bambbo belly and back. 66"L
Thanks again guys.
Thimo
Ps. this is the one i refered too as a variation. It is solide mulberry core with bambbo belly and back. 66"L
Ok! I am little angry. I asked about yumi about year ago and nobody say anything usefull about it. So I am asking again one thing that interest me.
Does limb taper from handle to tip (both lims or just one)???????
I have few pictures of unstrung yumi and picure of crossection (along with that young Shibata) so I need one more information to complete my research of yumies. After that I am going to make one with modern metod. I need to know how that taper looks (linear or curved a little) and what dimension is afected (width or thickness).
Mr. Selby can you sand me few pictures of your yumies?
And thimosabv I am that yumi professionalist on that "other" forum. :wink:
Does limb taper from handle to tip (both lims or just one)???????
I have few pictures of unstrung yumi and picure of crossection (along with that young Shibata) so I need one more information to complete my research of yumies. After that I am going to make one with modern metod. I need to know how that taper looks (linear or curved a little) and what dimension is afected (width or thickness).
Mr. Selby can you sand me few pictures of your yumies?
And thimosabv I am that yumi professionalist on that "other" forum. :wink:
No Kidding, rapsod. :wink:
Yeap. I am rapsod anywhere I go. That way is very easy to remember username and password.
Well let me extend my hand in friendship. You are very passionate my friend and i hope you go very far in makeing bow. :)
You will have to forgive me if you found yourself ignored. Not my intention. Accept these dimensions as rough working measurements, the bamboo varies. On an 89", 226 cm long bow, above the grip the back bamboo 1/8' thick, 1-1/8" wide, the belly 1" and 1/8 thick, the core 9/32"thick. Overall thickness above the grip around 11/16".
Tapers to 1" wide at the back, 15/16" at the belly, the backing thinning slightly, the core thinning to 3/16", the belly bamboo narrowing but the thickness remaining at 1/8" overall thickness about 1/2 " below the nockpiece, which is 6-3/8 exposed and as i remember is notched slightly under the rattan binding.
The lower tip above the nockpiece 15/16" wide on the backing which has thinned out, though the belly bamboo has not, core is now 5/32 and the overall thickness to 1/2" also. Lower nockpiece 4-1/2 exposed, 5/16 more buried underneath the lash.
The grip, which is a folded hard paper mass is 3-1/4, centered 32-3/4 from the botton tip.
The backing runs the full length, but the belly slat and part of the core is notched to let in the nockpieces, of some super exotic material, possibly Ippe wood. Signed above the lower nockpiece, "Itoisi" die burned in kangi.
The back shows 7 nodes, the belly 5 (exposed) This is a must! -j-
Tapers to 1" wide at the back, 15/16" at the belly, the backing thinning slightly, the core thinning to 3/16", the belly bamboo narrowing but the thickness remaining at 1/8" overall thickness about 1/2 " below the nockpiece, which is 6-3/8 exposed and as i remember is notched slightly under the rattan binding.
The lower tip above the nockpiece 15/16" wide on the backing which has thinned out, though the belly bamboo has not, core is now 5/32 and the overall thickness to 1/2" also. Lower nockpiece 4-1/2 exposed, 5/16 more buried underneath the lash.
The grip, which is a folded hard paper mass is 3-1/4, centered 32-3/4 from the botton tip.
The backing runs the full length, but the belly slat and part of the core is notched to let in the nockpieces, of some super exotic material, possibly Ippe wood. Signed above the lower nockpiece, "Itoisi" die burned in kangi.
The back shows 7 nodes, the belly 5 (exposed) This is a must! -j-
Thank you for dimensions. :D I will try to make picture to make easy dimensionating that yumi.
Jack, whats the weight and drawlenght?
Wouldnt a warbow yumi be shorter?
Jaroslav
Wouldnt a warbow yumi be shorter?
Jaroslav
Jaroslav, The drawlength is not determined on a bamboo yumi, but of course cannot exceed the length of the arrow. Almost any photo of a yumi-making workshop wall will show bows of different lengths and varying grip placement. To some degree this is determined by node spacing on the bamboo. Foriegners practicing Kuydo in Japan are known to wear out yumi faster because of excessive draw length.
Some years ago I agreed to refletch two Japanese war arrows that I also "blueprinted" for my own info. These two had shafts 34" and a fraction, 87 cm. But a modern arrow from Kyoto measures over 38", 97 cm. An American asked me to make an arrow pair 41" but I did not have bamboo which would work.
The draw weight, I believe does not exceed #40. There are others which do. -j-
Some years ago I agreed to refletch two Japanese war arrows that I also "blueprinted" for my own info. These two had shafts 34" and a fraction, 87 cm. But a modern arrow from Kyoto measures over 38", 97 cm. An American asked me to make an arrow pair 41" but I did not have bamboo which would work.
The draw weight, I believe does not exceed #40. There are others which do. -j-
Thanks!
Jaroslav
Jaroslav