Turkish core structure
Hello everyone,
After some research an readings i feel confused with what the Turkish core should be like
(siyah means including ear)
Should it be :
2 pieces : limbs (including siyah one piece) / handle glued on
3 pieces : limb(including siyah) / handle(spliced) / limb
3 pieces : siyah (spliced)/ limb handle (one piece) / siyah
5 pieces : siyah (spliced)/ limb (spliced)/ handle (spliced) / limb / siyah.
In case of siyah spliced in the limb should the siyah be wide or narrow at the shoulder (base of ear ) ?
Here some drawings i don't know what to think about
After some research an readings i feel confused with what the Turkish core should be like
(siyah means including ear)
Should it be :
2 pieces : limbs (including siyah one piece) / handle glued on
3 pieces : limb(including siyah) / handle(spliced) / limb
3 pieces : siyah (spliced)/ limb handle (one piece) / siyah
5 pieces : siyah (spliced)/ limb (spliced)/ handle (spliced) / limb / siyah.
In case of siyah spliced in the limb should the siyah be wide or narrow at the shoulder (base of ear ) ?
Here some drawings i don't know what to think about
From the top down:
1. Wooden siyah (ear) assembly plus splice from the side (2 of these needed)
2. Siyah assembly (1) viewed from the top.
3. Wooden core of the working limb viewed from the top. (2 needed)
4. Wooden grip plus splice viewed from the side (just need one)
5. wooden grip plus splice (4) viewed from the top.
So the bow is made of (1) + (3) + (4) + (3) + (1)
Playing about with your image:
1. Wooden siyah (ear) assembly plus splice from the side (2 of these needed)
2. Siyah assembly (1) viewed from the top.
3. Wooden core of the working limb viewed from the top. (2 needed)
4. Wooden grip plus splice viewed from the side (just need one)
5. wooden grip plus splice (4) viewed from the top.
So the bow is made of (1) + (3) + (4) + (3) + (1)
Playing about with your image:
Thank you.
It seems people making hornbow today would tend to, or more easily make a Turkish bow with a Korean structure in 4 parts :
ear (siyah) spliced / limb / ear plus grip glued on back of the core
This is wrong but probably works ?
Adam Karpowicz says the turkish core could be made in five parts as you said or 3 parts : entire limb including ear / grip / entire limb
The 3 parts being spliced in any case...
It seems people making hornbow today would tend to, or more easily make a Turkish bow with a Korean structure in 4 parts :
ear (siyah) spliced / limb / ear plus grip glued on back of the core
This is wrong but probably works ?
Adam Karpowicz says the turkish core could be made in five parts as you said or 3 parts : entire limb including ear / grip / entire limb
The 3 parts being spliced in any case...
I would rather splice the siyah with a narrow base which would have a bigger glueing joint surface with the core if this one is thick at the ends
(black color on the modified drawing)
It seems if the siyah base is triangular the joint is smaller even if the core is made thicker here...
(black color on the modified drawing)
It seems if the siyah base is triangular the joint is smaller even if the core is made thicker here...
Narrow base for tip section is actually correct. The same goes for the grip splice - the narrowest point (at the arrow pass) is the base of splice.
How about calling the limb parts correctly in Turkish. There is the grip, the sal (bending section), the kasan (rigid/ridged section) and the all-wood tip. Much clearer.
The siyah = kasan + tip, so you never know what is spliced to what.
Adam
How about calling the limb parts correctly in Turkish. There is the grip, the sal (bending section), the kasan (rigid/ridged section) and the all-wood tip. Much clearer.
The siyah = kasan + tip, so you never know what is spliced to what.
Adam
Adam,
I definitely agree with you.
The thing is that a lot of people now know, or figure what a siyah is,
but a few know about kasan... Never too late to change bad habits...
Here is a drawing i found in the Karlsruhe Turkenbeute, that i annoted with the informations in Paul Klopsteg's book.
He considers the back of the kasan is the ridge and the belly of the kasan is the shoulder.
I hope there is no mistake. Hope it will be useful.
He writes kassan and ssal instead of kasan and sal, i don't know why, just a detail.
I suppose there is no english name for siyah or kasan ?
What is the turkish name for ear ?
I definitely agree with you.
The thing is that a lot of people now know, or figure what a siyah is,
but a few know about kasan... Never too late to change bad habits...
Here is a drawing i found in the Karlsruhe Turkenbeute, that i annoted with the informations in Paul Klopsteg's book.
He considers the back of the kasan is the ridge and the belly of the kasan is the shoulder.
I hope there is no mistake. Hope it will be useful.
He writes kassan and ssal instead of kasan and sal, i don't know why, just a detail.
I suppose there is no english name for siyah or kasan ?
What is the turkish name for ear ?
Redbow,
The spelling inconsistancies are because Klopsteg was translating from the work of the German orientalist Hein. I appears that the dental "s", written with a dot under it in modern works, was transliterated by a double "s".
Adam is using the correct modern Turkish spelling. Except when quoting the Quran in Arabic, the Ottoman Turks would rarely have differentiated in speech between the different forms of s, d, t, and z in Arabic. However spelling was conservative and the Turks used different consonants that sounded the same to them to identify what class of vowel was next to them. For instance, K was used to indicate the next vowel was an e, ? or ?, while Q was used to suggest an a, o or u. (It is more complicated than that example, but this is an archery site not a linguistic one.)
The illustration you used was originally used to show a Sind bow with a seven piece core, I think. These bows were much more complex than Turkish bows in construction and technicall and historically interesting.
The way ear entered English as a word for the siyah is probably as a translation for the Farsi word gosh, which literally means ear and was the name for a siyah of a bow. The current Turkish word for ear is kulak or bashak. You might recognise kulak as the word for the leather lining of a thumb ring. Siyah is of course the Arabic word for the rigid end section of a bow.
Looking at old Ottoman books, it might be possible to find out if kasan was originally the whole rigid part of the limb and if it became limited to the ridged section after the development of two distinct sections of the ear.
The spelling inconsistancies are because Klopsteg was translating from the work of the German orientalist Hein. I appears that the dental "s", written with a dot under it in modern works, was transliterated by a double "s".
Adam is using the correct modern Turkish spelling. Except when quoting the Quran in Arabic, the Ottoman Turks would rarely have differentiated in speech between the different forms of s, d, t, and z in Arabic. However spelling was conservative and the Turks used different consonants that sounded the same to them to identify what class of vowel was next to them. For instance, K was used to indicate the next vowel was an e, ? or ?, while Q was used to suggest an a, o or u. (It is more complicated than that example, but this is an archery site not a linguistic one.)
The illustration you used was originally used to show a Sind bow with a seven piece core, I think. These bows were much more complex than Turkish bows in construction and technicall and historically interesting.
The way ear entered English as a word for the siyah is probably as a translation for the Farsi word gosh, which literally means ear and was the name for a siyah of a bow. The current Turkish word for ear is kulak or bashak. You might recognise kulak as the word for the leather lining of a thumb ring. Siyah is of course the Arabic word for the rigid end section of a bow.
Looking at old Ottoman books, it might be possible to find out if kasan was originally the whole rigid part of the limb and if it became limited to the ridged section after the development of two distinct sections of the ear.
Thank you Bede for these very interesting explanations.
These days I am on vacation in Spain : Sevilla, Cordoba and Grenada.
Travelling through history i wonder about what happened with the bows of the Omeyyade and generally the bows from the arabic world.
Who knows what they looked like ?
Is there any one left from these ancient centuries ?
These days I am on vacation in Spain : Sevilla, Cordoba and Grenada.
Travelling through history i wonder about what happened with the bows of the Omeyyade and generally the bows from the arabic world.
Who knows what they looked like ?
Is there any one left from these ancient centuries ?
Bede
ıts not bashak but bash. Bash means in turkish "head".regards.
ıts not bashak but bash. Bash means in turkish "head".regards.
Arsilan,
Sorry, I didn't look up the reverse entry for bashak, which apparently means an ear of corn as in the expression: bashak baglamak, to develop ears of corn. If Turkish is similar to the English, where we refer to heads of grain, the Turkish word would derive from bash. This is a strange parallel between two very different languages.
Sorry, I didn't look up the reverse entry for bashak, which apparently means an ear of corn as in the expression: bashak baglamak, to develop ears of corn. If Turkish is similar to the English, where we refer to heads of grain, the Turkish word would derive from bash. This is a strange parallel between two very different languages.