Question about the "Chinese release"
In Stephen's article titled The Archery Tradition in China, he mentioned the "Chinese release" in which the string was held by the thumb, and supported by the middle finger, with the forefinger pointed upward along the string.
I tried this method according to the instructions and it seemed extremely awkward, I don't think I was doing it correctly. I was wondering if someone could post some pictures to better illustrate the use of this technique?
I tried this method according to the instructions and it seemed extremely awkward, I don't think I was doing it correctly. I was wondering if someone could post some pictures to better illustrate the use of this technique?
The 'Chinese Release' is only referred to in Wang Ju's "Archery Classic". I can do it; but it's not as effective as the conventional thumb realease. If you are just academically interested I can take a photo and post it; but I don't think it's worth going to an effort to learn it.
I still think there is something to the Chinese draw that we don't know yet because one sees it widely used on Qing period artwork and late Qing pictures of Manchus.
Like Stephen, I can do it but the regular thumb draw works better for me as well. However, most artwork depicting Manchus shooting, as well as some 19th century pictures almost invariably depicts them using this method.
I think it may not be so much of a Chinese method, but more of a Manchu method because the Ming prints of archers that I have seen don't show this method. One reason for it that I can think of is that they wanted to keep their long feathers intact.
The feathers were much longer than the brace height of the bow and having reproduced some arrows with very long feathers, I noticed that it's hard to keep them intact because they get pulled back when you pull the arrow backwards along your hand and the bow. Perhaps the arrow was put on the string and pulled back while kept from touching the bow and hand by this finger.
I began to think this because pictures of Qing archers in full draw show them with near, undisturbed feathers. There is no way you can pull an arrow and having it look like this without having some method of temporarily keeping it off the bow while drawing.
Boy, would I want to have been able to have a chat with the persons in these pictures...
-Peter
Like Stephen, I can do it but the regular thumb draw works better for me as well. However, most artwork depicting Manchus shooting, as well as some 19th century pictures almost invariably depicts them using this method.
I think it may not be so much of a Chinese method, but more of a Manchu method because the Ming prints of archers that I have seen don't show this method. One reason for it that I can think of is that they wanted to keep their long feathers intact.
The feathers were much longer than the brace height of the bow and having reproduced some arrows with very long feathers, I noticed that it's hard to keep them intact because they get pulled back when you pull the arrow backwards along your hand and the bow. Perhaps the arrow was put on the string and pulled back while kept from touching the bow and hand by this finger.
I began to think this because pictures of Qing archers in full draw show them with near, undisturbed feathers. There is no way you can pull an arrow and having it look like this without having some method of temporarily keeping it off the bow while drawing.
Boy, would I want to have been able to have a chat with the persons in these pictures...
-Peter
Peter,
The Japanese have a similar problem and solved it by holding the arrow against the bow in front of the fletchings and then pulling the string back to the nock. I don't think the Manchus did this originally because of the paintings of Qianlong hunting hares. Here the other archers are going through most of the actions of nocking and drawing and it looks pretty standard for thumb ring shooting.
However, you can nock and partly draw the arrow with the bow canted toward the arrow side and the arrow slightly off the grip. This does not seem a good technique. Early Qing arrows are fletched closer to the nock. I wonder if the combination of this and a high brace height reduced the problem.
The Japanese have a similar problem and solved it by holding the arrow against the bow in front of the fletchings and then pulling the string back to the nock. I don't think the Manchus did this originally because of the paintings of Qianlong hunting hares. Here the other archers are going through most of the actions of nocking and drawing and it looks pretty standard for thumb ring shooting.
However, you can nock and partly draw the arrow with the bow canted toward the arrow side and the arrow slightly off the grip. This does not seem a good technique. Early Qing arrows are fletched closer to the nock. I wonder if the combination of this and a high brace height reduced the problem.
Qianlong chasing hares indeed shows a very typical sequence, where the shaft is held against the bow and the nock pushed forward. It is also one of the few pieces of artwork of a Manchu in full draw that does not use this so called "Chinese release", Qianlong himself appears to use a regular thumb-draw. Unlike his grandfather's imperial guard, he also doesn't stretch his draw-arm outward after release.
I have also noted that the fletchings of many earlier arrows were often closer to the nock which indeed may have helped considerably.
Take a look at where the index finger is on the pics and artwork below:
Xinjian conquests, 1759:
[external image]
Late Qing photograph:
Both use the "Chinese release". Take special note to the undisturbed long feathers on the arrow of the archer in the picture and note how similar the shooting style is to the picture above.
I have a lot more artwork depicting such scenes, but unfortunately all only in hard-copy. The book of the Grayson Collection also shows a Qing archer using exactly this technique.
(Speaking of the book, how did they get the idea that the Manchu bow was not suited for horseback archery? History tells us something quite different.)
-Peter
I have also noted that the fletchings of many earlier arrows were often closer to the nock which indeed may have helped considerably.
Take a look at where the index finger is on the pics and artwork below:
Xinjian conquests, 1759:
[external image]
![[external image]](http://anthromuseum.missouri.edu/images/grayson/china/1992-0100-printdetail1.jpg){kind=link}
Late Qing photograph:
Both use the "Chinese release". Take special note to the undisturbed long feathers on the arrow of the archer in the picture and note how similar the shooting style is to the picture above.
I have a lot more artwork depicting such scenes, but unfortunately all only in hard-copy. The book of the Grayson Collection also shows a Qing archer using exactly this technique.
(Speaking of the book, how did they get the idea that the Manchu bow was not suited for horseback archery? History tells us something quite different.)
-Peter
Peter,
I have to disagree with you in regard to the photograph. I have studied it in detail and in shooting with a Qing thumb ring I have found that the index finger is more stretched out than in shooting with a lipped ring. The Qing ring is worn over the knuckle of the thumb and the cylindrical shape forces the thumb to be more extended to reach over it.
The paintings repeat this position with less detail. The side of the cylindrical ring is pushed against the middle finger with great force. The index finger needs to rest very lightly on the thumb and the top edge of the outside of the ring.
Wang's technique if I remember it correctly involved the index finger pointing up in the direction of the string.
I have to disagree with you in regard to the photograph. I have studied it in detail and in shooting with a Qing thumb ring I have found that the index finger is more stretched out than in shooting with a lipped ring. The Qing ring is worn over the knuckle of the thumb and the cylindrical shape forces the thumb to be more extended to reach over it.
The paintings repeat this position with less detail. The side of the cylindrical ring is pushed against the middle finger with great force. The index finger needs to rest very lightly on the thumb and the top edge of the outside of the ring.
Wang's technique if I remember it correctly involved the index finger pointing up in the direction of the string.
The photo was taken some 30 years after the fall of the Qing dynasty, so it may not be very reliable as an indicator. You also need to be careful with actual pre-1911 photos: because the exposure time was often more than 15 seconds, you can see that archers are using an unorthodox way of holding the string to reduce the discomfort.
On the Tang 'Chinese release', frankly, I have never found any reference to that particular technique other than in Wang Ju's work. I'm not sure that it's worth studying, other than as a curiosity.
On the Tang 'Chinese release', frankly, I have never found any reference to that particular technique other than in Wang Ju's work. I'm not sure that it's worth studying, other than as a curiosity.
I agree, the thumb can be more extended in this way. I have a number of old thumb rings that fit me and with some it is quite like this, while with others I can bend my thumb as much as with the teardrop-shaped ones. However, with the "Chinese release" technique I can accomplish exactly the same hand position as you see in this picture while with the normal thumb draw, which I also prefer, I cannot get it to look exactly like the picture. While the hand is pretty well-lit, you don't see a thumb sticking out there either. I therefore have no reason to believe it is there.Bede wrote:
Peter,
I have to disagree with you in regard to the photograph. I have studied it in detail and in shooting with a Qing thumb ring I have found that the index finger is more stretched out than in shooting with a lipped ring. The Qing ring is worn over the knuckle of the thumb and the cylindrical shape forces the thumb to be more extended to reach over it.
Unlike some other pictures of Chinese archers, to me the man in the picture really seems to know what he is doing. His style is not reflected in manuals that I am aware of, but nevertheless I see it in Qing artwork over a long time span. This is not only in regard to his draw hand, but his whole posture up to the finger pointing to the target. It may be a technique spread orally, or through manuals that did not make it to today.
Could you post a picture of exactly how you mean this? It would be interesting to compare our different grasps, perhaps we are talking about the same thing afterall!Bede wrote:
The paintings repeat this position with less detail. The side of the cylindrical ring is pushed against the middle finger with great force. The index finger needs to rest very lightly on the thumb and the top edge of the outside of the ring.
You're right, a little detail I forgot. That indeed is an oddity! But otherwise the thumb often seems held by the middle finger instead of the index finger. The Qianlong emperor is one of the few Qing archers that I've convincingly seen depicted that uses the index finger to hold the thumb.Bede wrote:
Wang's technique if I remember it correctly involved the index finger pointing up in the direction of the string.
-Peter
It was suggested however (I forgot by whom) that the pictures may have had been made a longer time ago because it would seem unlikely for anyone to dress up in such Qing style in the 40's. What do you think of this theory?Stephen Selby wrote:
The photo was taken some 30 years after the fall of the Qing dynasty, so it may not be very reliable as an indicator. You also need to be careful with actual pre-1911 photos: because the exposure time was often more than 15 seconds, you can see that archers are using an unorthodox way of holding the string to reduce the discomfort.
Thanks for the exposure time, I have been wondering about the length of this.
-Peter
Peter,
There is an earlier and better photo which is very similar. I do not have permission to reproduce it by I will see what I can find.
The Qianlong paintings seem to be very accurate to me. some of the other artworks has passed through several stages (e.g. painting > lithograph > coloured print) and that reduces the usefulness. Stephen has an excellent diagram in Chinese Archery which I believe shows the grip on the string clearly.
With that grip, I can get chronograph readings close to those with a Turkish ring. I think the difference is a result of lack of practice.
I still think your comments about the fletching are valid. Handling the sometimes extremely long fletching can be very problematic.
There is an earlier and better photo which is very similar. I do not have permission to reproduce it by I will see what I can find.
The Qianlong paintings seem to be very accurate to me. some of the other artworks has passed through several stages (e.g. painting > lithograph > coloured print) and that reduces the usefulness. Stephen has an excellent diagram in Chinese Archery which I believe shows the grip on the string clearly.
With that grip, I can get chronograph readings close to those with a Turkish ring. I think the difference is a result of lack of practice.
I still think your comments about the fletching are valid. Handling the sometimes extremely long fletching can be very problematic.
That group of photos were all taken together by one W. H. Kress, a photojournalist active from 1930s - 1950s.
It is possible that the archers were part of the 'Shoot for Virtue' movement started by Tang Hao in the 1930s. They may well have felt that the clothing was 'traditional Chinese' rather than 'Manchu'. Indeed, up to today, many Chinese treat Manchu clothing as 'Chinese'.
It is possible that the archers were part of the 'Shoot for Virtue' movement started by Tang Hao in the 1930s. They may well have felt that the clothing was 'traditional Chinese' rather than 'Manchu'. Indeed, up to today, many Chinese treat Manchu clothing as 'Chinese'.