ATARNarchive

Last Chinese Bowyer?

34 posts2006live thread
thimosabv
Thankyou very much for shareing that. Very eye-opening as well as inspirational. I would so much like to work under a man such as that.

He mentions 200 steps in the process of bow construction. I can come up with quite a few, but does anyone know the true list of steps this would be. I collect all I can on this type of thing. Dying art forms such as this are so important to never let go extinct.

It is amazing how fast extintion of a craft can take place. In this event lest than a century, half a century really. I am glad his family did what they did and hid that bow and that he was able to convince his father to latter teach him
enno
too many secrets... :(

It's interesting to see that the glue he used was not liquid but more like gelatin.
And bow that he braced had no string bridges yet... and hornstripe was very long; seemed to be in one piece (?).

nothing else was to be seen... :cry:
AxelKuester
I Agree to enno, not even scraping the surface of the theme :(
But you can not expect anything elso than pretty pricures from TV :(

Just nice slow motion of arrows hitting the taget.
enno
Obviously the man wearing traditional clothes was some kind of actor having no idea how to shoot the bow: just look how he pulls the bow- using all his fingers!

And some times the arrow is set to the left side and then again to the right side of the bow. Was it related to the draw- mediterrian or thumb draw?

It was hard to see grooves on both, the horn and the core, when gluing procecc was shown. But i think i have seen him grooving them (some pictures presented here in ATARN page).
Uli
note that the bowyer does the thumb ring release and puts the arrow on the thumb side but his scholars not.
Reto
His name is YANG Fu Xi. I met him last year in Beijing. I brought back home two Chinese bows and a replica of a crossbow plus three very old original arrows. Here the pics I took in his workshop...

Reto
Reto
please check Stephen Selby's book "Archery Traditions of Asia".

Reto
thimosabv
Thankyou for those pics. The workshop seems quite cozy, but he seems to manage it just fine.

Yes on the video I too saw the "Hollywood" approach to the re-creation of the imperial guard, but I still enjoyed the footage of the bowyer's work and his words. 8)
Uli
Reto
can you pls post some pics of the bows you got from him ?
;-) Uli
Jhoneil
Does he have any contact info? I might be interested in buying bows from him. Do I have to travel to China? :shock:
Stephen Selby
I was on-site during the filming of this segment. Although both I and Mr Xu Kaicai were invited to go up as consultants, we found that they had set up and filmed the ludicrous scenes of archery practice before we got there. (Did you notice the fashion models in film-set clothing hovering in the background?)

On seeing the outcome, it is now clear that to meet the appetite of the US TV audience, the editorial focus had to be a negative commentary on China, highlighting the Cultural Revolution. Any information on the nature of the Chinese bow or the way it was shot came a poor second.

S
rob
Average People will never care about the effort going in to built traditional things like bows.
Only the hollywood cinema style displays attract their attenion.
It takes another bowmaker to understand.
Reto
Pictures of my last trip in China and what I brought back home
Reto
02/06
Reto
03/06
Reto
04/06
Reto
05/06
Reto
06/06
Romain
You got a lot of equipment from him now Reto ! Did you try your crossbow ?

(I can't see the last picture)
yokhua
I have seen and play his works couple years ago in Hong Kong; Frankly speaking, I don't like it. If someone needs some decoration in his living room, he can have one. Chinese horn bow, if done in the ancient and right way, should also shoot fast and powerful.
His bow's physical weight a lot, likes it has 200#, and draw like 70#, but perform like 20#. The reason I post this is that I don't want people to have an impression that a Chinese horn bow should feel and perform like his work.(I feel shame).. It should shoot much better..
A bow is made to shoot good, isn't it ?.
check my blog and will know what I'm talking about!

http://blog.xuite.net/jang.yokhua/hornbow/9857829
Bede
I think it is important that people offer their honest opinions. Constructive criticism can help. I believe we all have a lot to learn. It has been a long time since traditional archery has been practised in China and now it is being reborn we cannot expect it to emerge fully formed.

Intelligent comments and an open mind are necessary for us to rediscover old arts. On the other hand we should look after the traditions we still have so that when our knowledge is greater we can take advantage of those traditions because we have greater perspective.
Reto
Dear all, after many shoots with the two bows I brought back home, I have to say, the bows work perfectly. The craftsmanship of the "Last Chinese Bowyer" is amazing though he may not reach his ancesters skills yet. But, don't forget, his family used to make bows over many generations. They had different skills and functions (spezialisation) - he had to "re-learn" the bow-making again - during the culture revolution his family had to "destroy" [sawing] excellent bows they have had for generations (bows and arrows were considered as weapons). His workshop is not well equipped yet with modern tools - real handscraft.

Buying those two bows plus the remake of the crossbow (I bought the bronze mechanism on a old market) encourged him dealing with "da-bize" and others tor practise traditional archery. I consider this as development aid and encouragement.

Please feel free to contact him - I am sure the bows are getting better and better ...

Reto
yokhua
OK! maybe I wasn't right at all. maybe he can do much better job now.
The reasons why his bow can't perform good are; the glue line is too thick and messy, his sinew is not line up properly, I think the problem is the glue he use... also the shape of an unstrung bow should be in C shape and he think it should be in flat profile (that's a "tired" bow).
That's why his bow is physically heavy and can't deliver enough power it should be.
Of course,here I have been challenged by guys using modern recurve and compound all the time. Me and my horn bow beat them constantly. What an amazing equipment horn bow is...
redhawk
hi, I don?t know much about Chinese hornbows.
But according to my experience as a hornbowyer I would never do a hornbow such long: 178cm. Is this really the length?
Such a long hornbow could never perform like the shorter Korean, Turkish.......hornbows.
Otherwise the drawweight has to be very high?

Michael
Reto
Michael,

Yep, "Chinese/Mongolian/Tibetian/ hornbows are quite long. The ones I have seen in the Museum's (not only in China) were all between 165 and 182. Not only the bows are long but also the arrows the used (mass/weight/velocity = kill/penetration). The performance of well made bows were for sure as good as the ones from other nations.

R
yokhua
Actually the length of a Chinese hornbow is because its Siyans (ears), Shooting a Chinese bow is much more fun then other types. It pulled much like modern compound, starts heavy then ease up. when releasing, it has a "WOMP". Kind of like swining a long leather whip. And if using an light arrow such as a modern carbon arrow, that "WOMP" will knock and shake your bow out of your hand. Using an (really) heavy arrow it shoots extermly smooth and still fast.
But it is also more difficult bow, for it's long siyans, it takes more time and skill to heat and adjust and if the bow is too strong the bow hand is shakeing, it is easy to flip....
Anyways, for my experience of all kinds of horn bows, I enjoy shooting a Chinese horn bow most.

Yok
redhawk
Thank you,
I?m getting curious, another questions:
What?s the common drawweight of such a long hornbow ?
How much reflex do they usually have?
Could you tell me the physical weight of such a bow?
What?s the siyah-limb-angle?

I?m thinking about the transfer of energy of such a bow.

Michael
yokhua
A Chinese horn bow's physical weight about twice of a Turkish type. In full draw it should be over 34 inches. The reflex profile when unstrung is in C shape somewhere between Korean type and Turkish type.
If a Chinese horn bow with no reflex, I consider it's a tired bow, that won't have much power, like Redhawk said it's a "long" bow...
I have another clip added, the shooter in the clip is 180cm tall, from that you can guess the draw length(because of the arrow length,the bow is still not in its full draw). From this clip, you can see from your eyes, A well proformed Chinese hornbow is very fast and powerful, defieiently not a "slow"and "clumzy" "long" bow...
this bow is 55# in draw weight. basicly,I'm a short guy....maybe a Chinese horn bow is not my first choise.. Ha!

http://blog.xuite.net/jang.yokhua/hornbow/9909141
rob
I wish to contact this hornbow maker.
Could someone give me contact details please?

Robert
Rapsod
I saw a video of mongol archer this summer and I was very suprised when mongol archer let arrow go. There was almost "bang" sound. Like big splash of whip.
Stephen Selby
I can pass on any message you want to send to the Beijing bowyer. He does not understand English. If you want to visit him in Beijing, I can put you in touch. He enjoys receiving visitors from around the world.

He will be coming to the festival in Korea in May.

S
yokhua
Stephen; Really! Mr. Young is coming to Korea! I also want to meet
him! I have so many things to tell him, mostly about how to build horn bows correctly and some consepts.
I don't know, maybe he think he is some kind of big shot and won't accept my words. But I believe after he see the performance of my bows he will be convinced. I know it is not easy, because I don't have a grandfather and family tradition of traditional archery. But I have passion, craftmanship and knowing the essence of "Reverse engineering" and systematic analysis.
我並沒有要踢館或是當著眾人面前羞辱他的意思,只是"野人獻曝",想把我的心得告訴他. 希望他能夠接受,也希望他的工藝可以更好. 但是我更擔心的是他因為沒有受過系統組織化的科學訓練,沒有能力接受. 不過我還是想試試看.

Sincerely