Kyudo bows and arrows?
Hi!
I have been reading a bit about Kyudo the last few days, and wile I reading some questions came to my mind.
They use absurd long arrows (up to 43 ? if you are a long person) and these arrows are of course made of bamboo as you probably know. This now leads to my questions? Since they use such long arrows you?ll encounter a series of problems. Fist of all you wont be able to use heavy bows unless u have really thick arrows, or is hardened bamboo hard enough to withstand the pressure of a heavy bow without getting too thick? And then this leads to my next question, approximately how heavy was the Kyudo bows used in the ancient times? Did they simply solve the problem with light bows?
John
I have been reading a bit about Kyudo the last few days, and wile I reading some questions came to my mind.
They use absurd long arrows (up to 43 ? if you are a long person) and these arrows are of course made of bamboo as you probably know. This now leads to my questions? Since they use such long arrows you?ll encounter a series of problems. Fist of all you wont be able to use heavy bows unless u have really thick arrows, or is hardened bamboo hard enough to withstand the pressure of a heavy bow without getting too thick? And then this leads to my next question, approximately how heavy was the Kyudo bows used in the ancient times? Did they simply solve the problem with light bows?
John
I have measured the stiffness of some Japanese bamboo shafts prepared for arrow making. They are much stiffer than the same diameter wooden shafts. I imagine that the Japanese would have had no trouble making arrows for very heavy bows.
You must also remember that mediaeval Japanese were not tall by European standards and that arrows were not draw back as far when wearing armour due to the neck guard of the helmet.
You must also remember that mediaeval Japanese were not tall by European standards and that arrows were not draw back as far when wearing armour due to the neck guard of the helmet.
I have a Japanse military bow with arrows dating from the 1830s. I can't draw the bow because it's too old, but it looks around 60-70#. The arrows are 84cm plus a 6 m steel tip. 43" seems unlikely.
Thanks guys!
Bu I?m still wondering about a few things. The Kyudo bow is an extremely long bow, so is it any efficient compared to a short horn bow or similar? Because a friend of mine use a Howard Hill laminated bow made of bamboo, this is made in a flatbow-style and is quite short for a flatbow, but the sound and speed in the bow is extreme! Is the case the same with a Kyudo bow?
About the arrow length:
http://www.kyudo.com/kyudo-e5.html
Bu I?m still wondering about a few things. The Kyudo bow is an extremely long bow, so is it any efficient compared to a short horn bow or similar? Because a friend of mine use a Howard Hill laminated bow made of bamboo, this is made in a flatbow-style and is quite short for a flatbow, but the sound and speed in the bow is extreme! Is the case the same with a Kyudo bow?
About the arrow length:
http://www.kyudo.com/kyudo-e5.html
Dear all,
actually a friend of mine uses arrows of 43,3 inches and his bow has 15kg drawweight. His arrows are light, thin and reach a speed of 188ft/sec. In Kyudo its very difficult to hit the target by shooting light arrows. The case is, you draw the bow, depending of tallness of the archer, 4 - 5 inches behind your ear and the arrow touches your cheek, so the arrow has a long speeding up way. See the picture below!
In my Kyudo-school, the Heki-Insai-Ha, the technique is very complex; in full draw I twist the bow and push the right side with the thumbroot towards the target; the right hand is twisted inside, so that the string looks like a "s" in this area. That is done, because you can heighten up the drawweight up to 2kg more.
As Bede correct noticed, the Bushi or Samurai had helmets, which had on the right and left foreheadside a decoration looking like a tongue. The Bushi draw the bow and when the string touched this tongue the maximum drawlength was reached.
John, the sound of a Yumi is incredible; when it is shot by a real good archer, the string has a high whiped sound. An experienced teacher can tell you only by hearing the sound of the string, what is wrong with your shooting-technique!
Peter
actually a friend of mine uses arrows of 43,3 inches and his bow has 15kg drawweight. His arrows are light, thin and reach a speed of 188ft/sec. In Kyudo its very difficult to hit the target by shooting light arrows. The case is, you draw the bow, depending of tallness of the archer, 4 - 5 inches behind your ear and the arrow touches your cheek, so the arrow has a long speeding up way. See the picture below!
In my Kyudo-school, the Heki-Insai-Ha, the technique is very complex; in full draw I twist the bow and push the right side with the thumbroot towards the target; the right hand is twisted inside, so that the string looks like a "s" in this area. That is done, because you can heighten up the drawweight up to 2kg more.
As Bede correct noticed, the Bushi or Samurai had helmets, which had on the right and left foreheadside a decoration looking like a tongue. The Bushi draw the bow and when the string touched this tongue the maximum drawlength was reached.
John, the sound of a Yumi is incredible; when it is shot by a real good archer, the string has a high whiped sound. An experienced teacher can tell you only by hearing the sound of the string, what is wrong with your shooting-technique!
Peter
This disacussion is very revealing. I have always thought that the Yumi is an excellent form of bow, but it requires a very special technique to shoot it. None of the techniques used in longbow shooting or traditional Asian hornbow shooting will get you anywhere with a yumi.
S
S
Hi Stephen,
there are all in all two different kinds of Kyudo-archers, shomen (lifting up the bow central in front of the body, technique which is used in horsebackarchery) and shamen (lifting up the bow sideways, technique which was used in battlefield by the footsoldiers). Both techniques originate in aiming. On horseback the archer rides towards the target and is aiming over the left side of his left arm; the aim glides, by drawing the bow, from the elbow to over the left bowhand until he is in full draw - release. A footsoldier has to secure his left bodyside (where the front- and backarmour were bound together) with his left arm against arrows from his enemy during no shooting and preparing the next shot and his aim was static; so he lifts his bow sideways. Shomen only push the bow with the thombroot and don?t twist the right hand inside. But in both techniques your chest is opened by releasing; its called "Mune Wari" or "Warikomi".
In the University of Tsukuba (Japan, ~60km north from Tokio) is a Dojo (hall of practice) and a subject for Kyudo. Its the center of "Heki Insai Ha" school. They research with ultra-high-speed cameras and mechanical shooting-machines. The results are amazing:
If you shoot with a Yumi by only holding the bow and release, the arrow will land 1,5m right from the target on the standart-shooting-distance from 28m (no "archers paradoxon"?). Too the string will hurt your ear or eyebrow or your glases fly away, if you don?t push the right side of the bow with your thombroot . So an archer has to do active work with the bow to shoot the arrow whereto he aims and that the string circle round his head . This is what I explained above. In my school we have the maxime: penetration and speed.
There are big differences in arrowspeed by shooting a Yumi. If you give the same bow and arrow to a beginner and an experienced Kyudoka with the same drawlength, the arrow needs ~0,004sec by the beginner and ~0,0025sec by the experienced from release to leave the string. This we call "the art of japanese archery" - KYUDO!
Peter
there are all in all two different kinds of Kyudo-archers, shomen (lifting up the bow central in front of the body, technique which is used in horsebackarchery) and shamen (lifting up the bow sideways, technique which was used in battlefield by the footsoldiers). Both techniques originate in aiming. On horseback the archer rides towards the target and is aiming over the left side of his left arm; the aim glides, by drawing the bow, from the elbow to over the left bowhand until he is in full draw - release. A footsoldier has to secure his left bodyside (where the front- and backarmour were bound together) with his left arm against arrows from his enemy during no shooting and preparing the next shot and his aim was static; so he lifts his bow sideways. Shomen only push the bow with the thombroot and don?t twist the right hand inside. But in both techniques your chest is opened by releasing; its called "Mune Wari" or "Warikomi".
In the University of Tsukuba (Japan, ~60km north from Tokio) is a Dojo (hall of practice) and a subject for Kyudo. Its the center of "Heki Insai Ha" school. They research with ultra-high-speed cameras and mechanical shooting-machines. The results are amazing:
If you shoot with a Yumi by only holding the bow and release, the arrow will land 1,5m right from the target on the standart-shooting-distance from 28m (no "archers paradoxon"?). Too the string will hurt your ear or eyebrow or your glases fly away, if you don?t push the right side of the bow with your thombroot . So an archer has to do active work with the bow to shoot the arrow whereto he aims and that the string circle round his head . This is what I explained above. In my school we have the maxime: penetration and speed.
There are big differences in arrowspeed by shooting a Yumi. If you give the same bow and arrow to a beginner and an experienced Kyudoka with the same drawlength, the arrow needs ~0,004sec by the beginner and ~0,0025sec by the experienced from release to leave the string. This we call "the art of japanese archery" - KYUDO!
Peter
Peter,
Standard Japanese armour fastens on the right side. The left side is actually the strongest side of the armour. The three other systems were down the centre of the back, both sides (rare) and armours with only a breast plate coming around the sides. The weakness is that when the arms are raised, the left armpit is exposed to the enemy with all armour. The raised arm style of drawing on horseback was most likely developed to clear the sode (shoulder guards) out of the way of the string. The early sode were very large and were designed to move around to the back when the arms were raised.
I have seen some of the videos you mention. The most amazing thing I remember is the wave-like motion of the string. The arrows seemed to have large oscillations too.
Standard Japanese armour fastens on the right side. The left side is actually the strongest side of the armour. The three other systems were down the centre of the back, both sides (rare) and armours with only a breast plate coming around the sides. The weakness is that when the arms are raised, the left armpit is exposed to the enemy with all armour. The raised arm style of drawing on horseback was most likely developed to clear the sode (shoulder guards) out of the way of the string. The early sode were very large and were designed to move around to the back when the arms were raised.
I have seen some of the videos you mention. The most amazing thing I remember is the wave-like motion of the string. The arrows seemed to have large oscillations too.
Bending and twisting. Can this be used for english longbow?
Just curious - what is a good group of arrows for an experience kyudoka at 20 yards? Is that even considered or is it all about the form?
I just started shooting a yumi and wondering how accurately it can be shot.
I just started shooting a yumi and wondering how accurately it can be shot.
There is a lot of hype associated with Kyudo. They say that the gear has not changed for hundreds of years. The truth is that Kyudo is based on ancient traditions. Sporting arrows of today are much longer than only 100 years ago. War bows were stronger than modern yumi. Some say that Kyudo is done instinctively but books in Japanese teach aiming techniques.
What was true and still is is that bamboo is a superior material for making a longbow, bamboo is the best arrowmaking material of them all including synthetics. and that anyone who practices religiously with a bow will make some astounding shots.
There is a contest on new years day where people come from all over Japan to shoot two arrows from a bamboo bow and bamboo arrows in costume and the aggregate score is all that counts. The very best archers retire from competition to allow others to ascend.
PS. A group is two arrows and they do not shoot at 20 yards.
What was true and still is is that bamboo is a superior material for making a longbow, bamboo is the best arrowmaking material of them all including synthetics. and that anyone who practices religiously with a bow will make some astounding shots.
There is a contest on new years day where people come from all over Japan to shoot two arrows from a bamboo bow and bamboo arrows in costume and the aggregate score is all that counts. The very best archers retire from competition to allow others to ascend.
PS. A group is two arrows and they do not shoot at 20 yards.
Mr. Shealby can you post picture of that military bow you have?