Archery Festival in Korea, May 2007: way forward

So
I shall respond to my own post:

- the Festival was a valuable event which opened the eyes of participants to many new possiblities.
- the Korean Government and sponsors provided generous financial support: this was a visionary policy.
- the Festival should be repeated; but not annually. Every two or three years is a possiblity.
- part of the success of this event was due to the excellent preparations made by the organizers for translation between English, Chinese, Japanese and Korean. Good translation in our difficult subject is important.
- the interpreters gained valuable experience in our subject. We should keep track of these good people so that we can use them again.
- communication bewtween the organizers concerning the timetable of events and the travel/transport arrangements needs to be strengthened. Many partipicants did not have experience of international events and they needed special attention beyond what can normally be anticipated: it was not always the fault of the organizers.
- there can be many economic, social and political reasons why it is not possible for valued members of the traditional archery community to leave their countries and travel overseas. We need to consider out-reach to them as well as bringing people together in one place.

S

I agree, Stephen. Regarding the interval between festivals, I think if they are held every other year (odd-number years), then we won't have as many conflicts with other international events such as the Olympics and World Cup. With that in mind, we should think forward towards 2009 :!: :D


T

Some people have said that this was a Korean Traditional Archery meets ATARN event due to the large number of ATARN members who managed to attend. However, there were many more areas represented aside from our own and everyone involved should be proud of the result.

It was really good to meet those ATARN contributers too. Usually you have conversations with friends. We had conversations that created friends. My greatest regret was that I could be in three places at once to take advantage of all the opportunities available.

I would love to attend one of these festivals, but Korea would be a bit of a way for me (and quite a few others I'd imagine) to travel. Perhaps rotate the festival round countries interested in traditional archery?

Mike

It would be difficult to get, say, the Korean Government to sponsor the event outside Korea. If you can get the Bristol City Council to sponsor the next one, you're the man! :o

Stephen thanks for the opening this discussion.
If i may say:
1) i agree with frequency 1 per 2-3 years. To make a good horn bow (and so get some new experiences) took not less than one year, as far as i can say. And exchanging of such experiences i consider to be the main purpose of the festival. Competition is, i think, only one of, lets say, attractions in the festival.
2) It would be nice if theoretical part i mean seminars and presentations should be accented. Although "Traditional archery" is very wide concept, but for most of us, if i could say, is the leading idea to go to the roots oft the archery and re-establishing of ancient, and almost forgotten technologies of bowmaking or practissing.
I have good experience with poster sessions from medical conferences i attended. The posters with presentation of some "fresh" results are placed in the public room so everybody could read them when has time. And than there is some time schedule, when the authors are standing front of theirs posters prepared to explain and discuss. Some kinds of informations about traditional archery should be presented this way.

Finally i would like to say, that theese days in Korea, for myself, where something like "pretaste of archers paradise" :-))
Human life is short, and full of missunderstandings, but there are some extraordinary moments when you are touching something diferent. May be the idea, that bow and arrow connects earth, heaven and human, is really valid.
sincerely
Michal Goetz, Czech republic

Whoops, my skimming really is bad, I kinda missed the bit about korean gov sponsership :oops:

Well, if anyone was interested in doing a festival in little ol' England then it shouldn't be so hard to get something started. Many different history festivals have sprung up here over the past years. The yearly history fair in warick for example. Things like that are usually very popular among people here (or at least the people I know). Of course, I have no idea about logistics :(

Mike

The organisers are already making plans for next year's festival, according to an email they sent out. -j-

Yeah, that's also what I received. I'm sending you a PM, Jack.


T

I said very clearly, including to the politico at the top, Mr Won and Col. Kim, that I did not think this event was sustainable on a yearly basis. What's more, next year will be approaching the Beijing Olympics and many of the people from China will be able to get away easily. Same goes for Hong Kong, where we're hosting the equestiran events.

Maybe Mr. Won has fiscal reasons, use or loose type thing. I would encourage anyone who had a chance to go. Life should be so good as we were treated. -j-

I can see both points of view. If a small group goes, they would have to put a lot of effort into recording what happened so the rest do not miss out. I hope some of the videos being taken will be made available as DVDs. I only managed 25 minutes of video and 350 photographs (half in the National Museum of Korea). Next time I will bring more power adapters.

On the other hand, if we alternate big and small festivals and increase the Korean participation, there might be a viable alternative.

I'm all for people coming over for any size event--even if a handful of interested people come for an informal gathering, we can spend all our time shooting :D This time, come on down to my neck of the woods...


T

First thanks for idea of the incredible event, for inviting me and thank you all for miraculous, magic atmosphere during World Archery Festival.
For me the most important was the opportunity to meet almost all people who I only know through internet, e-mail and web. Next it was see so many ways of traditional archery in one place and see traditional archery masters. And last but not least to see the beautiful Korea.

Thanks Korean archers, it was great work.

World Festival should be, not should, it must be continued. It is clear. Problem is how often. I agree with Stephen that every two years would be the best choice. And the festival, in my opinion, should have one day more for participating in all events. This year I could participate only as shooter without any chance of hearing seminars because I have marked ?shooter?. It should be clearer explained. In the over hand the spontaneous meeting in bow maker room was strangely interesting and fruitful.

May be such system would be good: one year world traditional archery festival, next year some continental (or covering smaller range) festivals?

A
PS I'm looking for pictures with me in national costium during shooting :)

Hi Andrzej,
i have a couple of pictures of you shooting in costume. Send me as PM your adress and i will send you CD with all my 400 pictures.
Michal

I just received an e-mail from the organizer, Mr. Won. They are fully intending on going ahead with a 2008 WTAF, even with the Olympics being in the same year.

Wel,, if he has the money, well a nd good. Plenty of people will be happy to come.

S

Personally I have no problem going to Korea each year. The festival was such an incredible event! Too get to meet all the people, share experiences and all. But one thing I really missed way a more detailed presentation of the techniques used. For me it would have been great to have presentations by every country where they explained their style of shooting in detail. There are so many styles (especially thumb draw) which would have been great to learn more about.

And yes a better opportunity to shoot more would be just perfect. To have a shooting range where we could have gone to freely would have been excellent. Where one could go and shoot whenever one had time.

Just to echo:

1) everyone including myself are very grateful to the organiser, very generous offer and very successful in all aspect to get all of us together.

2) whether it is annual or biannual, it would be great if financially viable.

3) i suggest we need
a) a place we can have some semi permanent booth to display our materials, some time to be allocated to man the booth and so everybody find some time to walk around, look and chat; (say set the booth outside the big conference room, then we can chat after dinner etc.)
b) a demonstration of own archery style plus explanation together, instead of just shoot and go;
c) install practised range but a field safety manager must be employed and simples rule of shooting set solely for safety reason
d) try to spend the day time for field session and evening for conference.
e) during the competition, different groups can simultaneously shooting four sets of target (however any groups, any target in future, shoot simultaneously as far as possible to save time, instead of one group shooting one target,) then people no need to wait too long, also save time for conference.
f) no overlapping of significant event, i.e. the bomb fire party and the future ahead conference, both are very important but most people not knowing that they are running parallel.
g) spectator number is low and would the event be taken place with large amount of spectator.
h) publicity I don't know if any press etc were invited to see all of us etc.
i) horses available at the centre and just wonder horseback archery display may be possible.

Having said above, I thank many other things are very very good, lodging, food, the bomb fire party, how they arrange room, interpreters for each group, hospitality.......

I wish I could have shot better and sure will return anytime if allowed.

Fox

I agree with Fox's ideas.

One of the most rewarding things for me was the discussions I had with the other people at the event. Many I had met here on ATARN and seen their opinions and shared their knowledge. Talking to them, I discovered the depth of their experience as well as their knowledge. I also discovered a lot of good humour and inclusiveness. Archery, no matter how serious, is fun. From a research point of view, it is one of those things where you can learn about something and then try it out. You can really test your knowledge.

This was my first chance to see a large group of Korean archers shoot and I was impressed by their form and accuracy. I had met some very good Korean archers in the past and it is not possible to form a good idea of the ordinary level of Korean archery from seeing only the top level.

I had also seen Bhutanese archers shoot before and this time I saw a group shooting and had an impression of their general style as opposed to their individual styles. It was the same with the Mongolians. Seeing a group of people shoot was enlightening.

In the case of the Japanese, I was very impressed to see how they adapted their close distance style to longer distances while maintaining its integrity and strength.

My Turkish friends were a delight to see because I had so hoped that Turkish archery would be reborn in its home and start to flourish again.

It was very good to see the renewed flourishing a Chinese archery and the support of Tibetan archery too. China is a big country with many traditions of archery, both Chinese and from other cultures within its borders.

The various European styles are healthy at home and growing well. The English and Scandinavians have related archery styles and distinctive personalities in their traditions. The Hungarians are another group who have actively recovered their traditions and made a big impact on the rest of the world.

Of course the various North American traditional styles have passed into the background consciousness of the whole world through movies so it is really interesting to see the real thing. It is much more impressive than the movies. Another good thing is how North Americans, who are not of Native American descent, are just as interested and keen at promoting the traditional styles.

I am in that situation myself. My ancestors have not been archers for several centuries. I became interested in Asian styles and have been lucky enough to be able to learn something about various traditions. When I started thirty years ago, I never thought I would be able to meet people with so many skills in a forum like the Festival and exchange ideas.

Incidentally, this was not meant to be a list of the things I enjoyed. There were many others besides those mentioned here. What I am trying to say is that there were so many things to see and do of great value to the participants that we should support and contribute ideas for the continuation of the initiative our Korean hosts provided.

Firstly a big thankyou to the organisers for a successful first festival and to all those who made it so enjoyable. I learnt a great deal and feel, like Bede, that the sense of inclusiveness was special.

Logistically it was one amazing task, and I was immediately struck that I could not see the UK doing anything like the same, when our Olympic archers (recognised by the establishment whereas the traditionalists are not) struggle for support and sponsorship. Korean generosity made this possible and while it is essential to keep up the momentum, I agree that two years is more sustainable if the sponsorship can be so arranged. Perhaps between the main festivals a 'peripatetic' festival could be arranged moving 'round elsewhere in the world -spreading the workload somewhat and allowing countries with less chance of major sponsorship to contribute.

I think the newly formed World Traditional Archery Archery Association could have a vital role in maintaining the momentum generated by this event. Does anyone have any news regarding it's proposed activities? A website would be a great start where the various (non-commercial) individual traditional archery sites and organisations could link and exchange information, news and events etc. as well as advising of progress and activity at the Festivals. It could hopefully develop some worldwide 'clout' and even shame some governments into doing the same as the Koreans!

I've been inspired by this event, as have many others. I think something really important for worldwide archery traditions has happened.

A big virtual handshake to the new friends I met at the Festival!

[external image]
Dear Comrades in Archery,
I would like to thank, firstly, the Korean Authorities and the Organizers of 2007 W.T.A.F. for their excellent hospitality and knowledge they offered me during last festival in Korea.
Furthermore, I would like to thank all of you for the unforgetable moments and experience in Seoul.
This first attempt to unify traditional Archers from all the World was very successful indeed! The only I wish is to have the opportunity to meet us next years in same place. I think that this Organization has to held in Korea permanently because its Organizers (despite some difficulties) gave the strongest evidence that they are enough experienced to repeat successfully such attempt in future.
The Greek Horseback Archery Team "CENTAURS KASSAI" has already dedicate a page to aforementioned event, with the hope that, upon visiting it, sweet Archery-memories will be back to your mind!

http://www.horsebackarcherygr.com/2007wtafkorea.htm

Kindest regards to all of you, from Athens-Greece!

That's a nice website Aristotle, the festival must have been wonderful judging by the pictures.
I notice Kassai bows and was wondering did you use these there? Were modern materials acceptable?

Orda Khan wrote:

That's a nice website Aristotle, the festival must have been wonderful judging by the pictures.
I notice Kassai bows and was wondering did you use these there? Were modern materials acceptable?

Thank you very much!
Yes, I use "KASSAI" bows. All of them are made after a thorough archaelogical research according original measures. Their materials are natural (wood/leather/horn etc.) but some glues or vernishes are of modern technology. All "KASSAI" bows in Horseback Archery are absolutely suitable and reliable.

Sorry Aristotle, I should have been more clear. I use a Kassai 'Deer' Hun model myself and I thought perhaps there would be some objection to the glass fibre limbs. Obviously there was not, which is great news.

I loved the traditional costumes, this event looks really well organised. Thanks for sharing the photos.

p.s. Your website is in 'my favourites'

Orda Khan wrote:

I use a Kassai 'Deer' Hun model myself and I thought perhaps there would be some objection to the glass fibre limbs

In Horseback Archery we need (at least for the beginners) very light and strong (fast) bows some bow-models meet those standards using modern materials. This is not the common rule of bow-construction.
Upon visiting following link you will discover the whole "KASSAI" bows-catalogue:
http://felszerelesek.lovasijaszat.hu/fe ... ups&lang=2
Thank you very much for your appreciation of our website! :D

Yasu, Aristotle :D It's good to have you here.

This coming weekend, we will have WTAF seminar version 1.5...

I will be meeting with Prof. Kim Ki-hoon (Korea Military Academy) and several other Korean WTAF'ers this coming Saturday at the KMA. There will be two presentations and discussions (I hope my translations are correct):

1. WTAF Results and Issues

Presenter: Kim Ki-hoon
Discussant: Lee Keon-ho

2. WTAA Foundation Viewpoint and Tasks

Presenter: Choi Jin-hee
Discussant: Thomas Duvernay

I'll let you know how it goes.


T

Thomas Duvernay wrote:

Yasu, Aristotle :D It's good to have you here.

Υasu, Thomas and Nicholas!
It's nice for World Archery to have you among!
This semninar will be very interesting. Anxiously awaiting your newest.
Meanwhile, I'm trying to translate at the least the conclusions of previous seminar held during W.T.A.F. enabling Greek Traditional Archers to enjoy that brilliant Organization.

Tikanis, Aristotle?

How about a Greek team joining next time? :D

T

Thomas Duvernay wrote:

Tikanis, Aristotle?

How about a Greek team joining next time? :D

T

Poly kala :D (very good) dear Thomas!
We all hope that 2008 will be another nice Organization for Traditional Arhery in Korea. Our discipline seems to gain day by day new people here in Greece, despite ignorancy of Authorities (only "Olympic" Archery is acceptable).
Next year, I believe that could be possible to show the ancient Greek bow to our Fellows in Seoul.
:D

Thank you Stephen for opening the topic. I have been involved in the organization of knapping events for eighteen years and have had as many as two hundred people arrive from 27 states. I cannot even begin to imagine the details that were involved in the arrangents for an international event like this. None of my events have ever gone as smothely as the festival did.
I would have been very happy to have been able to attend the presentations and try to shoot as well.
My demonstrations were very limited because of the material that was eaten be the mail system. I f invited again I will start out many weeks sooner.
The translaters made the event something that will be near my heart forever. they made everything happen smothely and on time.
I agree that the event will probably not have the same effect if held yearly. Bi annual should be fine. even tho I at my advanced age may not have enough left to go. However the Japan contingent gave me hope.
It was very nice to be able to place faces with the ATARN contacts..
Live well had help others do the same Bill

Dear Friends,

I just returned from the mini-seminar in Seoul. I will comment on it in detail later, as I need to get some sleep. Also, I just had sad news that my dad's younger brother died of an apparent heart attack, so I'm a bit rattled at the moment.

One thing I will mention right now is that this thread became part of the seminar! It was included in one of the presentation papers. So, they are listening :!:

T

I'll give an overview of what went on at the mini-seminar and will probably add comments as I think of them.

I headed up to Seoul early Saturday morning and arrived there about four hours later. I then took the subway to the KMA and met Prof. (Col.) Kim at the Hwarang Hall (guest house). I was checked into a suite, as the smaller rooms were all filled. I should mention that we covered most of our own expenses, as there was no outside support; my costs, including transportation and lodging, was over $100 for two days and a night. The Saturday dinner was covered. It was worth it, as we discussed issues that needed discussing.

I should also mention that this seminar was not affiliated with the WTAF organization. It was composed of Korean Archery Culture Research Association (KACRA) members; the only WTAF people there were me, Prof. Kim, Mr. Lee Keon-ho, and Dr. Choi Jin-hee.

Prof. Kim discussed the festival, and had included both pictures and video from the event. There was unanimous opinion that the festival should be held every two years and not annually. Mr. Lee Keon-ho was the discussant with Prof. Kim.

Dr. Choi was the presenter on the proposed new organization. One of the things discussed was the name. The domain WTAA has been taken with all the major suffixes (com, org, net, etc.), so Dr. Choi said Kay Koppedrayer suggested WOTAA (WOrld Traditional Archery Association). In Korean, they pronounced it "Wa tta", which means "coming". The name was well-received.

I was the discussant with Dr. Choi. There were many items discussed during this time (and even more discussion went on at dinner and afterwards). I'll highlight a few points.

1. There is a need to establish traditional archery centers in each participating country. The center can be that country's HQ for WOTAA.

2. The org will need to eventually become an official entity, but even an unofficial, Internet-based org at present will be enough. Becoming official in Korea presents some hurdles, but they can be solved over time.

3. WOTAA can promote each country's national archery internationally and promote int'l archery domestically.

4. Eventually, int'l members will need to agree on rule standardization, although that would not be a priority now.

There were many other bits and pieces that were discussed througout the night and even the next day. I proposed a major archery center in Korea, where int'l archery training could take place, including having bow and arrow masters conduct crafting seminars.

As for the website, I was talked into being the webmaster. However, I can only oversee things; other members will have to step up and actually take charge. We envision the web site having multi-lingual pages, with members from each country being the webmaster for that archery culture.

As for the video I talked about above, Prof. Kim suggested it be provided to members upon joining. Dr. Choi, I believe, will look into it being professionally edited.

In a small session after dinner, it was suggested that a festival of some type (probably less formal than the WTAF) be held in Mongolia. However, members would probably need to bear most costs personally. It's something maybe to discuss with our Mongolian brothers.

Prof. Kim stressed how valuable Stephen's contribution was to the WTAF and that it would not have been possible without his help. Likewise, Stephen's and ATARN's support will be crucial to future festivals and WOTAA.


More later as I think of things...


T

I am glad there were so many positive views on the Korean event and I appreciate the kind remarks made about ATARN's role.

As for ATARN itself, we can maintain an unaffiliated, apolitical role for the 'Network'. We should keep ourselves as an unstructured, constructive anarchy, willing to help anyone without political strings. We need to beware that many of these international sporting / cultural initiatives eventualy become politicized. (That was probably already a political statement :P )

Beware of Chairmen, Prsidents and Secretaries.

Anarchy rules ok. :wink:

S

Hello ~ every archers!

First of all, I do not know how much I have to say thank you to Mr.Stephen Selby for making like this discussion post and I would like to say thank you to all of panels and arcers around the World. I am also wondering how all of you have been doing...

I still remember all memory of 2007 WTAF in my mind vividly, which all of us made succesfully. I should have taken part in this forum more earlier..

Well, let me express our view which the Korean Organizing staff for the WTAF is thinking for the WTAF 2008...

First shot : I don't mind to hold WTAF in 2009 year cause of opening 2008 Olympic in the Beijing. But, Korean Government will undertake supporting WTAF on condition that we hold WTAF every year for 3 years. So, we have to no choice nothing but holding WTAF 2008 next year. With doing like that, we think that we can improve and revitalize WTAF...

Second shot : We really wish you can help us sincerely.

Last shot : After 3 times of WTAF, we can decide frequency and location for the WTAF with archers representative of each country.

Thank you so much!

I bless you keep to be happy and healthy. Take care~

Best wishes,

Mr.Won.

(That was probably already a political statement Razz )

yes Stephen it was very political :D
personally, I'm not a fan of official federations like sport federations

Chairmen, Presidents and Secretaries

etc. etc. etc.
but on the other hand, there was no possibility organising such festival without official association - no supports, no sponsorship.

I think that the name WOTAA is very fine.
But I have some questions:
what role may be fulfil such world association in fact,
do we really need it,
and if yes what would be an interest in establish WOTAA in more countries?

In many countries there are a lot of small or a bit bigger traditional archery associations and unofficial groups or even single persons, dissimilar to sport federations. And I think it (diversity) is a power of traditional archery, though sometimes is hard to reach an agreement :D

Today even if decide to start, I would prefer very loosely federation of societies, groups and persons. Korea with its good organization and strong associations may fulfil leading role.

But may be our ATARN constructive anarchy :D is and further would be better and sufficient - these questions need reflection.

Korean Government will undertake supporting WTAF on condition that we hold WTAF every year for 3 years

Greate! and thank you :)

Andrzej

Good news from Greece!
A magazine of a very wide circulation "RED BELIEVERS" (the official magazine of the Champion Football Team of Greece "OLYMPIAKOS") in its last edition (July 2007) printed a very nice article well illustrated concerning 2007 W.T.A.F.

[external image]
[external image]
[external image]

http://www.horsebackarcherygr.com/press3.htm

Furthermore, another Greek magazine asked me about 2007 W.T.A.F. and a second publication is expecting during summer. :D
2007 W.T.A.F. inspires Greek Press!

2007 W.T.A.F. INSPIRES GREEK PRESS

I'm positively surprised upon viewing the interest of the Greek Press concerning 2007 W.T.A.F.! In a place where average "journalism" means mostly scandals, crime, corruption of politiciens, is a very optimistic sign to discover that events like 2007 W.T.A.F. attracts the interest of Greek journalists!

[external image][external image]

In its recent edition "MANI, yesterday, today, tomorrow" [ www.mani-ekdoseis.gr ] this wide circulation's magazine includes a very nice article about 2007 W.T.A.F. in Korea.
Besides written-journalism, a TV Programm in Athens presented a dedication to Archery including a reference to 2007 W.T.A.F.
Really, I'm very happy not so much for the publicity of a very serious international event than for the publicity itself of Archery in my Country.
Kindly requested all participants to inform if any publicity in other Countries as well.

Yasu, Aristotle :D

That's great about the press coverage the WTAF is receiving in Greece. You've been a great representative of the Eastern Peninsula on the Western Peninsula :!:


Thomas

Thomas Duvernay wrote:

Yasu, Aristotle :D

That's great about the press coverage the WTAF is receiving in Greece. You've been a great representative of the Eastern Peninsula on the Western Peninsula :!:


Thomas

Yasu, Thomas!
A great Organization needs great Organizers and great ...workers like me!
Thank you! :D