Collateral Damage
At the WTAF some folks were discussing strong bows. Their friend can shoot a hugely strong bow for hours on end, has been doing this for some years now. But this man in his middle 30s has lost almost 2" in heigth, though he is otherwise strong and healthy, They also claim that he cannot aim worth beans when they shoot together in the field.
Is there anyone with medical training here who can explain if grueling exercise could shrink one's heigth? -j-
Is there anyone with medical training here who can explain if grueling exercise could shrink one's heigth? -j-
Anyone out there? any opinion? -j-
Jack,
I don't think it much use in discussing someone's shooting who I haven't seen. When you rely on third parties, you often miss the context. For instance, did he shoot well before he started using strong bows? If not, then the bow's strength hasn't contributed to his inaccuracy.
Everyone knows you should shoot a bow within your power, that is one which you control not that controls you. The goal of a modern archer drawing a strong bow might be to find out how heavy a bow a person could pull. Training for accuracy is a further step.
I know an excellent bowyer who claims he can't hit a target consistently. Does that invalidate his bow making skills? At least in Turkish archery, pulling heavy bows was a field in itself. I know from old documents that the Manchus held special target competitions with ultra heavy bows (up to 200 pounds), but I don't know the distances or target sizes. In the Middle East there were penetration contests with targets made of various hard materials. I assume that heavy bows and strong arrows were a prerequisite.
I don't think it much use in discussing someone's shooting who I haven't seen. When you rely on third parties, you often miss the context. For instance, did he shoot well before he started using strong bows? If not, then the bow's strength hasn't contributed to his inaccuracy.
Everyone knows you should shoot a bow within your power, that is one which you control not that controls you. The goal of a modern archer drawing a strong bow might be to find out how heavy a bow a person could pull. Training for accuracy is a further step.
I know an excellent bowyer who claims he can't hit a target consistently. Does that invalidate his bow making skills? At least in Turkish archery, pulling heavy bows was a field in itself. I know from old documents that the Manchus held special target competitions with ultra heavy bows (up to 200 pounds), but I don't know the distances or target sizes. In the Middle East there were penetration contests with targets made of various hard materials. I assume that heavy bows and strong arrows were a prerequisite.
Bede; I am coming to a stronger opinion that shooting strongly and shooting accurately are two different matters. Though it would be best to shoot strongly and accurately, evidence is mounting that these are two different skills which must be sacrificed for eachother. Yes, practice helps but within limits.
What about the medical aspect? -j-
What about the medical aspect? -j-
Jack,
The evidence from the Mary Rose skeletons indicates that if you start shooting heavy bows while your bones are still growing you can sustain permanent spinal damage. Whether this is debilitating or disabling cannot be ascertained since the sufferers did not write accounts of their medical conditions. However, the studies of the bodies showed that they were otherwise healthy and were thought well enough to go off to war.
In case a doctor should read this, I should point out that the spinal deformations are assumed to have been caused by archery. There is no direct evidence, but the most likely cause was using heavy bows.
From Chinese and Turkish accounts, it is clear that users of strong bows used training methods other than just drawing bows to build up their strength.
The evidence from the Mary Rose skeletons indicates that if you start shooting heavy bows while your bones are still growing you can sustain permanent spinal damage. Whether this is debilitating or disabling cannot be ascertained since the sufferers did not write accounts of their medical conditions. However, the studies of the bodies showed that they were otherwise healthy and were thought well enough to go off to war.
In case a doctor should read this, I should point out that the spinal deformations are assumed to have been caused by archery. There is no direct evidence, but the most likely cause was using heavy bows.
From Chinese and Turkish accounts, it is clear that users of strong bows used training methods other than just drawing bows to build up their strength.
I guess I should ask, What weight class is considered a strong bow?
100 to 200 pounds.
My concern is that damage could occur to a mature archer who did not start too young. -j-
Regarding the loss of height: can someone check into the possibility that pulling a strong bow could cause herniation of the spinal discs? That might lead to some shrinkage of the spine (but 2 inches?) and a loss of height.
Don't I recall reading on the ATARN network some months ago a post to the effect that the Egyptian Mamluks didn't let their boys use a full-strength bow until the boy was physically mature?
Lack of accuracy-maybe.
Frankly, it sounds as if he's over-bowed.
Don't I recall reading on the ATARN network some months ago a post to the effect that the Egyptian Mamluks didn't let their boys use a full-strength bow until the boy was physically mature?
Lack of accuracy-maybe.
Frankly, it sounds as if he's over-bowed.
I used to compete in powerlifting and though performing compressive exercises such as the squat or deadlift over a long period, any difference in height was never noticable or long term. I've read that we are all about 1/2 inch shorter when we go to bed than we were when we got up.
Unbalanced exercises such as drawing the bow, performed over an extended period would naturally have an affect. That the affect would be dibilitating is arguable but I would imagine some sort of ailment such as arthritis as a direct result of uneven strength and constant use. I have my own arthritic aches that I put down to my younger pursuits.
As for the detriment of strong bow use in mature archers I would have to agree with Jack. Sure it is possible to build the strength required, I know a man that did just that in order to draw a 130# longbow. Archery is uneven exercise using different sets of muscles on opposing sides and ideally should be practiced both right and left handed otherwise there will be uneven development of both muscle and connective tissue. Of course there will also be a physical limit.
When at or close to his physical limit I would not expect the archer to be as accurate as he would be with a comfortable weight. What is heavy for some may be comfortable for others and with training, the comfortable level goes up.
So if the archer is a bad shot at 30, 40, 60, 100# I'd say he was just inaccurate. If he is accurate at lower weights but his groups spread at 100# or more, I'd suggest he use a lighter bow
Unbalanced exercises such as drawing the bow, performed over an extended period would naturally have an affect. That the affect would be dibilitating is arguable but I would imagine some sort of ailment such as arthritis as a direct result of uneven strength and constant use. I have my own arthritic aches that I put down to my younger pursuits.
As for the detriment of strong bow use in mature archers I would have to agree with Jack. Sure it is possible to build the strength required, I know a man that did just that in order to draw a 130# longbow. Archery is uneven exercise using different sets of muscles on opposing sides and ideally should be practiced both right and left handed otherwise there will be uneven development of both muscle and connective tissue. Of course there will also be a physical limit.
When at or close to his physical limit I would not expect the archer to be as accurate as he would be with a comfortable weight. What is heavy for some may be comfortable for others and with training, the comfortable level goes up.
So if the archer is a bad shot at 30, 40, 60, 100# I'd say he was just inaccurate. If he is accurate at lower weights but his groups spread at 100# or more, I'd suggest he use a lighter bow
I would think it is the other way around Jack, those with the lightweight bows shrink in the presence of the heavyweigths... :)
Seriously, I agree, if you fear injury, please do not train for heavy bows. Or talk to a doctor first.
Adam
Seriously, I agree, if you fear injury, please do not train for heavy bows. Or talk to a doctor first.
Adam
What would a person shrink two inches? I know when a person hits an old age you shrink.Shooting very heavy poudage bows you can get hurt. It takes time and training,weight training does help alot. I got a 148# warbow have no problems shooting it. marlon
I have seen Marlon shoot and he definitely has no problem with these heavy bows. He is the only one I have met that regularly shoots bows over 100 pounds and is a good person to give opinions on the stresses it subjects your body to.
However, he has put a lot of training into getting where he is today and might be able to give some advice to those are interested.
However, he has put a lot of training into getting where he is today and might be able to give some advice to those are interested.