Ideal weight ratio between long arrows and short arrows?
The "long arrow" in the title refers to ordinary arrows, and the "short arrows" the one shot by hollow grooves such as Arabic majra, Korean tong-ah, Byzantine solenarion, mamluke narshin, etc.
Although the short arrows might be lighter than ordinary arrows because of its length and need for faster velocity, to have certain effect at war, it should be necessarily heavy to some extant.(Although not as heavy as the longer ones.) Many contemporary accounts point out the short arrows' superior penetrating power compared to long ones.
"A Book on The Excellence of The Bow & Arrow", a 16th century Arabic treatise on archery suggests that short arrows shot by guide should weigh ten dirhams(Section 43), and ordinary war-arrows 15~20 dirhams.(Section 40)
On the other hand, Young-gyip archery museum in Pah-joo, Korea provides short arrows(pyun-jeon) weighing about 20grams, not so light when compared to ordinary long arrows weighing about 25~30grams.
However, I can't be sure about the weight ratio due to the lack of data I can collect.
To show performance of the short arrows depicted in medieval accounts(e.g.: Twice the range of long arrows, good penetrating power), how much should the weight ratio between the short ones and long ones should be?
P.S.: Although not related with weight, I would like to ask one minor question about shooting short arrows with guide, if the members don't mind. There is some possibility that the short arrow would deviate from the guide and wound the bow-arm, making learning how to shoot arrows with guide harder than shooting ordinary ones.
But how much harder? Is it surmountable by efforts of ordinary archers, or by only few who strenuously pratices nearly everyday?
Although the short arrows might be lighter than ordinary arrows because of its length and need for faster velocity, to have certain effect at war, it should be necessarily heavy to some extant.(Although not as heavy as the longer ones.) Many contemporary accounts point out the short arrows' superior penetrating power compared to long ones.
"A Book on The Excellence of The Bow & Arrow", a 16th century Arabic treatise on archery suggests that short arrows shot by guide should weigh ten dirhams(Section 43), and ordinary war-arrows 15~20 dirhams.(Section 40)
On the other hand, Young-gyip archery museum in Pah-joo, Korea provides short arrows(pyun-jeon) weighing about 20grams, not so light when compared to ordinary long arrows weighing about 25~30grams.
However, I can't be sure about the weight ratio due to the lack of data I can collect.
To show performance of the short arrows depicted in medieval accounts(e.g.: Twice the range of long arrows, good penetrating power), how much should the weight ratio between the short ones and long ones should be?
P.S.: Although not related with weight, I would like to ask one minor question about shooting short arrows with guide, if the members don't mind. There is some possibility that the short arrow would deviate from the guide and wound the bow-arm, making learning how to shoot arrows with guide harder than shooting ordinary ones.
But how much harder? Is it surmountable by efforts of ordinary archers, or by only few who strenuously pratices nearly everyday?
Sinsigel,
I'll leave much of your post for others to discuss. However, I will comment on your last question (Bede probably has a lot of input on it, too).
I have shot t'ong-a/p'yonjon for several years. I made my own t'ong-a (tube), and the first ones had little to no guide walls. For the most part, the p'yonjon flew well, but there were a couple of times when they deviated from their intended path; in the latter case, it took a chunk out of the side of my bow near the strike plate (ch'uljonp'i). When I made a t'ong-a with built-up sides, I didn't have that problem. Also, when I used a t'ong-a given to me by Yoo Se-hyun (the son of the fletcher), it tended to twist (it seems to be made from fiberglass) and I didn't feel very comfortable with it. Still, it has a big safety advantage as the top channel is quite narrow and the p'yonjon have a widened point so as not to jump the track.
T
I'll leave much of your post for others to discuss. However, I will comment on your last question (Bede probably has a lot of input on it, too).
I have shot t'ong-a/p'yonjon for several years. I made my own t'ong-a (tube), and the first ones had little to no guide walls. For the most part, the p'yonjon flew well, but there were a couple of times when they deviated from their intended path; in the latter case, it took a chunk out of the side of my bow near the strike plate (ch'uljonp'i). When I made a t'ong-a with built-up sides, I didn't have that problem. Also, when I used a t'ong-a given to me by Yoo Se-hyun (the son of the fletcher), it tended to twist (it seems to be made from fiberglass) and I didn't feel very comfortable with it. Still, it has a big safety advantage as the top channel is quite narrow and the p'yonjon have a widened point so as not to jump the track.
T
Thank you for replying, Mr. Duvernay.
However, I can't clearly understand what " first ones had little to no guide walls" and "t'ong-a with built-up sides" mean.
How is your tong'-a shaped like? Can you describe it in more detail?
However, I can't clearly understand what " first ones had little to no guide walls" and "t'ong-a with built-up sides" mean.
How is your tong'-a shaped like? Can you describe it in more detail?
The sides were almost non-existant; it was basically a shallow trough for the arrow to slide down.
I'll try and comment more later, but I have to go teach a class...
T
I'll try and comment more later, but I have to go teach a class...
T
Saracen Archery implies that short arrows or darts should be heavy. Ones made for flight shooting were light, but all the rest, including very short ones, were recommended to be made from heavy wood with solid points. A group in the Grayson Collection are remarkable massive for their size. None were heavier than full length arrows, but they were sometimes three quarters of the weight of full length arrows.
I am not sure of the weights of Korean short arrows.
Regarding the shape of the majra, there appear to have been several variants. The Korean style was known in the West as a description in Arab Archery shows. However, it is clear that ones with less enclosing side walls were used. One type is safer than the other. The side walls were reduced to increase the speed of the short arrow by keeping it angle of projection small.
I think that shooting with the arrow guide is potentially dangerous unless you have a teacher and an observer. When you start shooting with one, you need someone to tell you how the arrow is sitting in the guide. It is too late after you have made a mistake. Injuries are known.
I am not sure of the weights of Korean short arrows.
Regarding the shape of the majra, there appear to have been several variants. The Korean style was known in the West as a description in Arab Archery shows. However, it is clear that ones with less enclosing side walls were used. One type is safer than the other. The side walls were reduced to increase the speed of the short arrow by keeping it angle of projection small.
I think that shooting with the arrow guide is potentially dangerous unless you have a teacher and an observer. When you start shooting with one, you need someone to tell you how the arrow is sitting in the guide. It is too late after you have made a mistake. Injuries are known.