Turkish Reflexbow
Dear all,
this is my first targetbow, length ntn 126cm (49,6 inch), drawweight I don?t know now (~70 pounds), because its not ready adjusted. Core is made of maple (4mm), waterbuffalohorn (5,5mm) and deer-achilles?tendon (2mm). Length of the flexible arms 25cm (10 inch), width 34mm (1 1/3 inch). Physical weight 0,5kg.
Peter
this is my first targetbow, length ntn 126cm (49,6 inch), drawweight I don?t know now (~70 pounds), because its not ready adjusted. Core is made of maple (4mm), waterbuffalohorn (5,5mm) and deer-achilles?tendon (2mm). Length of the flexible arms 25cm (10 inch), width 34mm (1 1/3 inch). Physical weight 0,5kg.
Peter
Peter, Your craftsmanship is truely artistic. Keep up the good work and keep us informed about your progress. -j-
Peter, nice work. Do you make lamination for the tips?
Cem
Cem
Hi,
first, thanks Jack!
Cem:
yes I did!
The bow is laminated at the grip and the kasans. Sorry, I never expected the bow will held. What i did: the core was a strip of a very good hard-maple and I put the grip and the sihas glued, with grooves, on the back. I put several layers of sinew at the meeting-points, where the lamination go to the limbs. So there is no splicing on the woodcore.
But..........my question to experienced bowmakers is: what is the efficientest curve at the limbs? As you see, in my bow, the curvature is parabolic. Is a circle-form in the limbs more efficient?
Thanks for your advices!
Peter
first, thanks Jack!
Cem:
yes I did!
The bow is laminated at the grip and the kasans. Sorry, I never expected the bow will held. What i did: the core was a strip of a very good hard-maple and I put the grip and the sihas glued, with grooves, on the back. I put several layers of sinew at the meeting-points, where the lamination go to the limbs. So there is no splicing on the woodcore.
But..........my question to experienced bowmakers is: what is the efficientest curve at the limbs? As you see, in my bow, the curvature is parabolic. Is a circle-form in the limbs more efficient?
Thanks for your advices!
Peter
Kyudohund wrote:
Hi,
first, thanks Jack!
Cem:
yes I did!
The bow is laminated at the grip and the kasans. Sorry, I never expected the bow will held. What i did: the core was a strip of a very good hard-maple and I put the grip and the siyahs glued, with grooves, on the back. I put several layers of sinew at the meeting-points, where the lamination go to the limbs. So there is no splicing on the woodcore.
But..........my question to experienced bowmakers is: what is the efficientest curve at the limbs? As you see, in my bow, the curvature is parabolic. Is a circle-form in the limbs more efficient?
Thanks for your advices!
Peter
Hello Peter,an almost perfect shape.Great work!What kind of glue did you use?
Bye
Francesco
Bye
Francesco
Hi Francesco,
first I want to say, that I am very impressed from your work and craftsmanship!
For gluing the wooden core I took a mixture from 2 parts sturgeon- and 1 part each from hide- and sinewglue (selfcooked). For horn to wood hide- and sinewglue mixture (2:1). For sinewing the same mixture as for the core, but very deluted.
Peter
first I want to say, that I am very impressed from your work and craftsmanship!
For gluing the wooden core I took a mixture from 2 parts sturgeon- and 1 part each from hide- and sinewglue (selfcooked). For horn to wood hide- and sinewglue mixture (2:1). For sinewing the same mixture as for the core, but very deluted.
Peter
Peter:
Your bows looks like parabolic because it is target bow. Turkish flight bow's Sal/kasan angle is lower than puta bows and flight bow's reflex is much more than target bow. So Turkish flight bows looks like a circle in drying period . C form is more reflex , more speed and more stress. I think archer need more experience to shoot with a flight bow.
Cem
Your bows looks like parabolic because it is target bow. Turkish flight bow's Sal/kasan angle is lower than puta bows and flight bow's reflex is much more than target bow. So Turkish flight bows looks like a circle in drying period . C form is more reflex , more speed and more stress. I think archer need more experience to shoot with a flight bow.
Cem
Hi Cem,
thanks for your advice.
But I ment the form of sal in full draw.
The "Brezel"-form (C or O) I know from ?nsal Y?cel, Paul Klopsteg and Hein. The only lose is, how an original turkish bow, as we see it unstrung in "Karlsruher T?rkenbeute" or in my topics from the "Abbey of Kremsm?mster", look braced.
So my question takes reference about the curvature from the sals in full draw: is it parabol (like in mine) or circle round (like yours in the reply "turkish bow from a turk").
thanks for answer and hope not to missunderstand you
Peter
thanks for your advice.
But I ment the form of sal in full draw.
The "Brezel"-form (C or O) I know from ?nsal Y?cel, Paul Klopsteg and Hein. The only lose is, how an original turkish bow, as we see it unstrung in "Karlsruher T?rkenbeute" or in my topics from the "Abbey of Kremsm?mster", look braced.
So my question takes reference about the curvature from the sals in full draw: is it parabol (like in mine) or circle round (like yours in the reply "turkish bow from a turk").
thanks for answer and hope not to missunderstand you
Peter
Peter:
İt is complicated. I think thinnest place of sal is important. Flight bow's is middle of sal and target bow's is 3-5 cm to sal/kasan. So filght bow bend middle of sal in full draw, in addition generally flight bow's reflex start to grip. Im not expert but I think form is your question's answer.
Cem
İt is complicated. I think thinnest place of sal is important. Flight bow's is middle of sal and target bow's is 3-5 cm to sal/kasan. So filght bow bend middle of sal in full draw, in addition generally flight bow's reflex start to grip. Im not expert but I think form is your question's answer.
Cem
Thank you Cem.
That was exactly what I want to know. I am glad, that I did the same on my bow, what you discribed above.
Peter
That was exactly what I want to know. I am glad, that I did the same on my bow, what you discribed above.
Peter
Dear all,
I finished the bow. On the first picture you see the bow covered with parchment.
On the others the decoration. The final varnish is not try enough yet to brace the bow.
Peter
I finished the bow. On the first picture you see the bow covered with parchment.
On the others the decoration. The final varnish is not try enough yet to brace the bow.
Peter
Some more details.
At least the grip.
Absolutely beautiful. I hope it shoots as well as it looks.
How will you protect the decoration from abrasion by the arrow passing?
How will you protect the decoration from abrasion by the arrow passing?
Amazing bow, especially the decoration. How did you paint it, by hand?
I have the same question as M. Hardman. I'm sure the Turks used some way to protect the riser, maybe a piece of leather but I didn't see anything like that on museum equipment.
I have the same question as M. Hardman. I'm sure the Turks used some way to protect the riser, maybe a piece of leather but I didn't see anything like that on museum equipment.
Kyudohund; Fantastic, absolutely fantastic. As beautiful as a beautiful woman. This cannot be your first Turkish bow. Just too good.
Looks like you'll have to rename yourself now. Jack
Looks like you'll have to rename yourself now. Jack
Thanks for your praise!
Mike, Jos?, I think turkish archers used a waxed linen-strip to get a better handling on the bow. They bound it round the grip and perhaps it covered the arrowpass too. On the other side I think the shooting-technique is important too. I often see archers in full draw position and they "lean on" the hand on the bowgrip. Look at the picture from Adam Karpowizc in "Bowyers of the moment". His wrist is totally straight, so he is "active" with his bowhand.
In Kyudo you have nearly the same grip, called "Tenouchi". In highest tension you push the right side (arrowside) of the bow with your thumbroot in direction aim. As I can see on the protection of my "Yumi", its made of rotang, there is a minimal trace of abrasion and I shoot this bow 6 years now very often.
Jack, thank you for your comparison :oops: , and you are right. Its my second. The first crashed when I braced it. Cause: the bone-insert came out like a missile and the grooves were to tiny, the bow to strong, too I heated it to much, but it is a good study object. I post some pictures. On the first you can see the crashed bow above and the other beneath.
Peter
Mike, Jos?, I think turkish archers used a waxed linen-strip to get a better handling on the bow. They bound it round the grip and perhaps it covered the arrowpass too. On the other side I think the shooting-technique is important too. I often see archers in full draw position and they "lean on" the hand on the bowgrip. Look at the picture from Adam Karpowizc in "Bowyers of the moment". His wrist is totally straight, so he is "active" with his bowhand.
In Kyudo you have nearly the same grip, called "Tenouchi". In highest tension you push the right side (arrowside) of the bow with your thumbroot in direction aim. As I can see on the protection of my "Yumi", its made of rotang, there is a minimal trace of abrasion and I shoot this bow 6 years now very often.
Jack, thank you for your comparison :oops: , and you are right. Its my second. The first crashed when I braced it. Cause: the bone-insert came out like a missile and the grooves were to tiny, the bow to strong, too I heated it to much, but it is a good study object. I post some pictures. On the first you can see the crashed bow above and the other beneath.
Peter
Jos?, sorry I forgot: the painting is made with my own hands. Including the final varnish, all in all 11 (eleven) layers.
Peter
Peter
Peter:
I like your works too :) İs it bone top of the tip?
Parchement is natural tanned?
Cem
I like your works too :) İs it bone top of the tip?
Parchement is natural tanned?
Cem
Exquisite, a true work of art from the perfect tiller to the wonderful decoration. You are talented indeed.
Cem,
tesek?r ederim! yes the tips are bone-inserts.
If the parchment is natural done, I don?t know. But its from an old tannery in a small town ~25 km from my hometown; they produce it since a long time and the owner told me, most parchment she sells esoteric-, or ethnic-drummakers.....................
Bol bol selam
Peter
tesek?r ederim! yes the tips are bone-inserts.
If the parchment is natural done, I don?t know. But its from an old tannery in a small town ~25 km from my hometown; they produce it since a long time and the owner told me, most parchment she sells esoteric-, or ethnic-drummakers.....................
Bol bol selam
Peter
A beautiful work of art, and absolutely amazing for your second bow. I am jealous of your talent.
Andrew
Andrew
Jos?,
There are a few Krim Tatar bows with a piece of leather covering the grip in museums. The Turkish bows I have seen show no signs of ever having anything on the grip. The mushamma I use has not even left wax on the grips of my bow so there is a chance that a strip of cloth could have been wound around the grip, but I doubt it. There are references in the literature about position the hand in relation to the chelik and that implies that you can see it.
There is some wear and tear on the painting on the grips of bows I have examined consistent with holding them, but I have never seen wear on the arrow pass. This would imply that the technique of shooting did not involve the arrow rubbing against that part of the bow. Using a siper the arrow does not touch the bow at all.
The captured Turkish bows from Vienna have no wrapping though I would imagine that it would be a good idea on campaign. Turkish swords often had the lower part of the hilt wrapped with silver bullion embroidered tape. This was to stop them becoming to slippery with blood. Since this is removable and intrinsically likely to become grimy, it is often taken off by collectors. The same thing could have happened to bows.
There are a few Krim Tatar bows with a piece of leather covering the grip in museums. The Turkish bows I have seen show no signs of ever having anything on the grip. The mushamma I use has not even left wax on the grips of my bow so there is a chance that a strip of cloth could have been wound around the grip, but I doubt it. There are references in the literature about position the hand in relation to the chelik and that implies that you can see it.
There is some wear and tear on the painting on the grips of bows I have examined consistent with holding them, but I have never seen wear on the arrow pass. This would imply that the technique of shooting did not involve the arrow rubbing against that part of the bow. Using a siper the arrow does not touch the bow at all.
The captured Turkish bows from Vienna have no wrapping though I would imagine that it would be a good idea on campaign. Turkish swords often had the lower part of the hilt wrapped with silver bullion embroidered tape. This was to stop them becoming to slippery with blood. Since this is removable and intrinsically likely to become grimy, it is often taken off by collectors. The same thing could have happened to bows.